Land near Temple Bar mysteriously bought up

**FredGarvin** · October-21-10, 08:47 PM

Indianapolis did what itr looks like SLC is doing. They took 2 city blocks worh of old buildings, gutted the insides, and converted them into a 3 story mall; Circle Center. It was a major drawing point for the downtown area, and believe it or not, it exists and thrives even with it being close to ther convention center, Lucas Oil Stadium, Victory Field, and other major attractions close by.

This was a major rework of IND's blighted downtown area and has been a great success. The area has also attracted numerous restaurants, clubs, and gathering places. It's thriving at all hours of the night because of the concentration of hotels in the downtown area as well.

It's worked there, it could work here.

**Mind field** · October-21-10, 10:03 PM

Anyone who thinks that any kind of large retail center of any type will be built in midtown or downtown Detroit anytime soon in this over retailed metro and national climate is delusional. I find it laughable that anyone would take this guys comments about Taubman seriously.

**English** · October-21-10, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by FredGarvin

Indianapolis did what itr looks like SLC is doing. They took 2 city blocks worh of old buildings, gutted the insides, and converted them into a 3 story mall; Circle Center. It was a major drawing point for the downtown area, and believe it or not, it exists and thrives even with it being close to ther convention center, Lucas Oil Stadium, Victory Field, and other major attractions close by.

This was a major rework of IND's blighted downtown area and has been a great success. The area has also attracted numerous restaurants, clubs, and gathering places. It's thriving at all hours of the night because of the concentration of hotels in the downtown area as well.

It's worked there, it could work here.

Agree - I've always thought that Indy's redevelopment would be a great blueprint for the D to follow. It's one of my favorite convention cities. Everything's convenient, close, and fantastically easy to navigate.

**Joseph C. Krause** · October-21-10, 11:17 PM

Whatever is planned, I am extremely alarmed right now by the beyond-necessary number of demolitions taking place combined with the idea that we can feed ourselves entirely with food grown in the city and the continued suburban proclivities of the remaining leadership.

The combination of these three things is a very serious threat to the future of our city.

The demolitions and planned developments are based on the idea that finance and "growth" will return to normal in a cyclical manner. It won't. Those who are into urban gardening are commendable, but anybody who thinks that it's the future city economy is one who espouses something that is complementary to the suburban-growth-wishers and is therefore also dangerous to the future of this landmass as a city.

The building renovators and the Sue Moseys and they transit advocates and the preservationists collectively have it right. This property buy-out hints at multiple new superblocks. May we be saved from such a future.

DetroitDad · October-22-10, 12:15 AM

How about some mixed use and residential developments?

That is a lot of land for a small mall and a arena, even with the park, considering there casino parking garages to the West, and very large spaces of vacant land to the South and West.

A mall is a bizarre proposal, as J.C.K pointed out above. Keep in mind that said mall would be at least the fifth failure in a long line of CBD mall failures, two in the past decade, and one attached to a new stadium [[Ford Field). Another thing to keep in mind is the question of whether or not we need or want an area "zoned" for retail, let alone super blocks between Downtown and Midtown. One of the things that makes an urban area so desirable is the lack of excessive zoning, uses [[residential, office commercial, retail) and demographics are somewhat mixed.

**buzzman0077** · October-22-10, 11:10 PM

I think a good example o what we could hope for is the original plan for the Kansas City power and light district. It was an open air multilevel mall which had pedestrian only sections within the middle of the superblock. It could be closed off at night to create a seemless area where you could go from bar to bar and restaurant to restaurant with drink in hand. They also had a large public plaza in the center with a stage and massive tv for events.
Originally it was supposed to be surrounded by residential units which due to the market collapse never got built. The Plaza in Kansas city would also be a good plan for the area.

**CLAUDE G** · October-23-10, 01:01 AM

I was at the Macomb Mall this evening picking up a Tuxedo, and I was amazed at the number of closed stores, and businesses that look like they where going out of business. You go to Eastland Mall and its the same problem.

If they build a mall downtown by this new arena they are going to be building, where are they going to get the shoppers from?

Eastland is about as close to Detroit as your going to get for a Mall, and it can bairly make it. If you can't get people from Detroit and the surrounding suburbs to shop there, how are you going to expect them to drive even deeper into Detroit to go shop downtown?

I hate to say it, the people living in places like Grosse Pointe where a mall in Downtown Detroit would actually be closer, would much rather spend an extra 20 minutes driving out to places like Troy and Auburn Hills to do their shopping.

**reddog289** · October-23-10, 02:40 AM

If they did build a mall there , Would it be able to survive? And add to that the panhandlers. Which I encounter alot even in the Burbs.

**Hypestyles** · October-29-10, 02:41 PM

hopefully something happens soon.. what is it like hanging out in the Temple Bar.. years ago I remember attending job-training for several weeks at the center for advanced tech. building nearby; the place just looked seedy from the outside..

**Johnlodge** · October-29-10, 02:56 PM

I'm starting to get a little excited with all this rail/arena/mall/mysterious land grab stuff, somebody splash me with some negativity before I get too far in the clouds.

**gnome** · October-29-10, 03:20 PM

Skippers Rule.

I still have tickets for the first ride on the gondola. Anyone have an update on that project?

Oh, yeah, that guy who is singlehandly building that dock by the RenCen... looks like he's on vacation. When was that going to be finished? 07?

lincoln8740 · October-29-10, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

Eastland is about as close to Detroit as your going to get for a Mall, and it can bairly make it. If you can't get people from Detroit and the surrounding suburbs to shop there, how are you going to expect them to drive even deeper into Detroit to go shop downtown?

I hate to say it, the people living in places like Grosse Pointe where a mall in Downtown Detroit would actually be closer, would much rather spend an extra 20 minutes driving out to places like Troy and Auburn Hills to do their shopping.

they are having problems because people from Detroit are shopping there. When there are multiple hat stores in a mall you know you are having problems.

People from Grosse Pointe never go to eastland anymore its just way too dangerous and the mall is starting to cater to a certain ,cough' "populace"

Bearinabox · October-29-10, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

they are having problems because people from Detroit are shopping there. When there are multiple hat stores in a mall you know you are having problems.

People from Grosse Pointe never go to eastland anymore its just way too dangerous and the mall is starting to cater to a certain ,cough' "populace"

Is this you being subtle?

**313WX** · October-29-10, 04:19 PM

The reasons Grosse Pointers don't shop at Eastland & Macomb Mall has nothing to do with safety or race.

Grosse Pointe is an isolated community when measured by wealth [[I.E. its location compared to all the wealtheir communities in northern Macomb and Oakland Counties).
Eastland & Macomb simply don't have the stores that cater to their demographic. The key demographic at Eastland prefer stores featuring "urban" fashions, where as Grosse Pointers likely prefer the more "fanciers" stores that you only find at Partridge Creek, Great Lakes Crossing, Lakeside, Twelve Oaks or Somerset. One thing Eastland has going for it is relatively good anchors. Everyone tends to shop at Target, Macy's and the two home improvement stores. I really don't believe they actually "enjoy" the long drives out to those other malss, just as many eastsiders don't particularly "enjoy" the regular trek up to Roseville or Harper Woods to do their shopping, but they adapt and deal with it.

I suspect the bigger problem with Macomb Mall is that it doesn't have any real anchor stores to lure people there. Roseville is virtually a shopping destination for eastsiders, so a lack of traffic certainly isn't the problem. The first death knell was when the Eastland Sears store opened up, that basically eliminated HALF of the shopping base at Macomb Mall's Sears store. The loss of Jeepers & Crowley's/Value City accelerated its decline. There's Kohls, but again [[note the closing of the original Eastland location) that store's key demographic doesn't live in Detroit proper.

lincoln8740 · October-29-10, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

The reasons Grosse Pointers don't shop at Eastland & Macomb Mall has nothing to do with safety or race.

Grosse Pointe is an isolated community when measured by wealth [[I.E. its location compared to all the wealtheir communities in northern Macomb and Oakland Counties).
Eastland & Macomb simply don't have the stores that cater to their demographic. The key demographic at Eastland prefer stores featuring "urban" fashions, where as Grosse Pointers likely prefer the more "fanciers" stores that you only find at Partridge Creek, Great Lakes Crossing, Lakeside, Twelve Oaks or Somerset.

chicken or the egg argument?

Tons of Grosse Pointers used to shop at Eastland quite a bit about twenty years ago and then it became more "urban" and there was cars being stolen, a couple armed robberies in the parking lot, gang fights etc and the eastsiders quit going.

So either the stores chose to go "urban" [[not possible) or the stores became urban to accommodate their shifting demographic

**jt1** · October-29-10, 08:20 PM

Get past the quotes and just say black [[or the 'n' word as I assume you do around your friends). It's one thing to be a bigot, it's another to be cowardly and try to hide your bigotry.

**Patrick** · October-29-10, 08:56 PM

Well, I was at Eastland in March on a Saturday when I was in town and I was the only white person that I saw at Eastland. Just an observation...read watever you want want into it.

**GPCharles** · October-30-10, 09:03 AM

Except for the Lowe's, which really isn't in the mall, but a stand alone store on the perimeter.

**Lowell** · October-30-10, 09:27 PM

Well I asked about this to one my little birdies who is may be more informed than anybody on that area. He came back with buckets of cold water.

"Nothing has happened lately. Press is just making up stories. Don't know that anyone bought the American. It is not in the proposed stadium area and the owner of the Temple Bar George is, in my experience, a babbler."