Worthy: Attend PT conferences or face jail

**guito13** · October-20-10, 12:05 PM

http://detnews.com/article/20101020/...ol-conferences

It's a sad day when parents have to be FORCED to be engaged in their childrens education. To me this is just one more sign that PARENTING [[and laws allowing parents to be parents) is the #1 issue that has to be adressed in the city [[and surrounding areas) in order to have our region turn around.

**JJD** · October-20-10, 12:31 PM

This is the dumbest waste of time yet for this city and our media. Does anyone in the world think this would ever happen? Why are we even talking about it? Why does it make the news. This law would be impossible to enforce, there is no space in jail for these parents, it's an incredibly stupid idea and an obvious publicity stunt. Worthy needs to get to work on some this cities real problems with plausible solutions, not wacky off the wall garbage like this.

**rjk** · October-20-10, 12:39 PM

I'm hoping she's bringing this idea up to engage the community in a discussion about this problem.

It's an idiotic idea on so many levels.

**guito13** · October-20-10, 12:47 PM

I wont argue that it's idiotic but it is sad that this is even being discussed. How do we make parents actually PARENT their kids?

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-20-10, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

I wont argue that it's idiotic but it is sad that this is even being discussed. How do we make parents actually PARENT their kids?

We don't. You can't legislate good parenting. However, we could engineer an environment where there aren't so many bad parents created. Worthy would be better off pushing birth control in DPS high schools than this silly law.

**guito13** · October-20-10, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

We don't. You can't legislate good parenting. However, we could engineer an environment where there aren't so many bad parents created. Worthy would be better off pushing birth control in DPS high schools than this silly law.

Aye that is a good start.

How about stoping the incentives to have children?

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-20-10, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

Aye that is a good start.

How about stoping the incentives to have children?

My belief is that a person should be restricted from having kids when on government aid. If they do, there should be no increase in aid. If they can't take care of the kids satisfactorily then the kids should be removed from the home and placed in foster care. There are many other things that need to be done that would dramatically reduce the amount of unfit parents. The problem is, no politician has the political will to implement any of these things.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-20-10, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

I'm hoping she's bringing this idea up to engage the community in a discussion about this problem.

It's an idiotic idea on so many levels.

The idea for parents to attend conferences with teachers is not idiotic. I would agree that it would be next to impossible to enforce. Its almost embarassing that someone has to say something like that. its almost like most parents don't give a shit about thier kid's future.

**Jimaz** · October-20-10, 07:16 PM

I don't understand how compelling reluctant parents to attend a meeting could possibly improve their parenthood. At best I would think it would simply irritate them.

Beginning a dialog from a confrontational stance seems as if designed to fail—unless the goal is to escalate the confrontation, which I think is not the intent here.

DetroitPole · October-21-10, 08:14 AM

This is one of those wild ideas that can spawn a good, workable idea.

Perhaps rather than penalizing parents who don't go to conferences, there can be rewards for parents who do.

It could be like code enforcement - you don't obey, you get a ticket. Nobody believes code enforcement is going to create an outstanding citizen or neighbor, but everyone knows that it is extremely important to maintain a neighborhood.

Keep in mind that many of these parents may not be malicious or bad people, but likely have little or no education themselves, and don't understand the value of it or how something mainstream like PT conferences help children. Like the same people who don't see a problem with parking junk cars on the front lawn or couches on the porch. They're not necessarily bad people, they just don't really "get it."

Poor people also work multiple jobs. Many of these people likely work in the evenings and very few of them work traditional 9-5 jobs like their suburban counterparts. In a cost/benefits analysis for them, many of them probably weigh that earning an extra $100 is more important than attending a conference. I would not be opposed to compensating people taking time off work - we do it for jury duty, but not surprisingly that falls during the traditional middle-class working timeframe.

DPS is in an absolute state of emergency. Kim Worthy understands that. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm glad the council gets it as well. Reading the article, a lot seems to be lost on the suburban politicians as to the real state of the schools, the parents, and the children.

Buy American · October-21-10, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Keep in mind that many of these parents may not be malicious or bad people, but likely have little or no education themselves, and don't understand the value of it or how something mainstream like PT conferences help children. Like the same people who don't see a problem with parking junk cars on the front lawn or couches on the porch. They're not necessarily bad people, they just don't really "get it."

[[Keep making excuses for people who just don't want to take the responsibility themselves. What's not to "get" when it comes to being civilized? Give me a break, anyone with a brain should know what is acceptable in a neighborhood, and parking cars on the front lawn is not acceptable.)

Poor people also work multiple jobs. Many of these people likely work in the evenings and very few of them work traditional 9-5 jobs like their suburban counterparts. In a cost/benefits analysis for them, many of them probably weigh that earning an extra $100 is more important than attending a conference. I would not be opposed to compensating people taking time off work - we do it for jury duty, but not surprisingly that falls during the traditional middle-class working timeframe.

[[You would not be opposed to compensating these people to take off work to attend a conference??? When I worked and my spouse worked, we attended our kids parent-teacher conference and we didn't need "incentives" or want to be compensated monetarily for attending. It was inconvenient at times, but we made the effort because our kids and their education was important to us.)

DPS is in an absolute state of emergency. Kim Worthy understands that. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm glad the council gets it as well. Reading the article, a lot seems to be lost on the suburban politicians as to the real state of the schools, the parents, and the children.

[[Suburban schools don't have the problems with parent participation that DPS has. Quit blaming others and start taking responsibility for your own actions.)

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-21-10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Buy American

[[Suburban schools don't have the problems with parent participation that DPS has. Quit blaming others and start taking responsibility for your own actions.)

Funny you say this while defending the law that Worthy is proposing which she wants to make statewide which would include those glorious suburbs.

Originally Posted by Buy American

It's hopeless and unfortunately, the children will never be as loved as they should be, they will never be properly educated, they will fall through all the cracks in Detroit that are getting wider and wider.

So you want to legislate the love? Wow. How about we simply engineer a society that doesn't produce so many unwanted kids, instead of trying to put laws on the book to force parents to love their kids after the fact.

Buy American · October-21-10, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Funny you say this while defending the law that Worthy is proposing which she wants to make statewide which would include those glorious suburbs.

I have no problems with any legislation Worthy proposes regarding statewide laws. I know that where I live, parent participation is practically 100% so no need to worry.

So you want to legislate the love? Wow. How about we simply engineer a society that doesn't produce so many unwanted kids, instead of trying to put laws on the book to force parents to love their kids after the fact.

I didn't say anything about legislating love. I said it's unfortunate that these kids will never be loved as they should be [[meaning by the parents). What would you suggest the solution be for "unwanted kids"? Abstinence or condoms don't seem to apply in these cases, do they?

I still say Detroit is hopeless.

Buy American · October-21-10, 09:38 AM

After reading that the DPS was offering incentives [[Target gift certificates, restaurant coupons, etc.) to parents to bribe them to get their kids to school on count day, I give kudos to Ms. Worthy for her efforts to put the fear of God into these people who have kids and don't give two shits about them or their education. Something has to be done to get these parents to realize that if you have kids you need to do more than just give birth and collect welfare and let the kids run wild.

**JJD** · October-21-10, 10:04 AM

Now this idiot [[Worthy) is going on Good Morning America as another political figure to make Detroit look like a clown show once again. Bad enough Michigan's asistant AG is a gay basher, an seems like an insane person on CNN, now we have Worthy on national TV talking about jailing parents. This should really increase the respect Detroit recieves from the country. [[Bangs head against wall over and over again).

Buy American · October-21-10, 10:19 AM

The facts are the facts about Detroit. Ms. Worthy isn't making Detroit look like a clown show in the national media...Detroit is. Look at the former clowncil members...Conyers especially. She is the wife of a U.S. Congressman, it doesn't take much more than that to make Detroit look foolish. Look at thug KK, look at Riddle, look at the DPS itself and the thieves that walk the halls.
Ms. Worthy is doing what is necessary to get these lazy, non-caring parents to participate in their childrens' education. Kudos to her.

**majohnson** · October-21-10, 12:01 PM

1. Individual parents who systematically fail to show up for parent teacher conferences are expressing a lack of concern over the academic well being of the child.
2. Parents will show less concern for unwanted and unplanned children than wanted children.
3. Children born to mothers without long term commitment from fathers are frequently unplanned and may be to a certain extent unwanted.
4. More than 70 percent of live births in the black community are to unmarried women. [[And yes, Detroit is mostly black)
5. Many of those unmarried women have no long term commitment from fathers.

It is not okay to have unwanted children.

On Worthy's idea:
What if the parents are not married, how do you establish who should attend the parent teacher conference? What is one of the non-married parents has established a life out of state? What if they are in-state but the woman simply is not involved.
Who should visit the child's pt conference is easy to decide when the parents are married. Not so easy when they are not married. What if paternity is not established? Who decides what a legitimate excuse is? Who can provide documentation of the excuse?

**DetroitTeacher** · October-22-10, 05:06 PM

I never see the parents that I really need to see. I always see the parents of the kids who are on track and give me no issues. I never have a working phone number of the parents that I really need to talk to...guess the parental involvement issue is pretty clear. Those kids who are doing what they are supposed to have engaged parents [[most of them)...those that are a pain in the butt and do nothing have parents who do nothing.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-23-10, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

I never see the parents that I really need to see. I always see the parents of the kids who are on track and give me no issues. I never have a working phone number of the parents that I really need to talk to...guess the parental involvement issue is pretty clear. Those kids who are doing what they are supposed to have engaged parents [[most of them)...those that are a pain in the butt and do nothing have parents who do nothing.

Since you're on the front lines, your opinion is one of the most valuable in thread. Do you think Worthy's proposed law would help, either A) getting those parents to PT or B) getting those parents more involved in their child's education?

Thanks, you've been a great contributor to this site in regards to DPS.

**Magnatomicflux** · October-23-10, 08:59 AM

Sorry if it's already been said. What about while enroling the child in school, the parent signs a contract stating that they must attend X amount of PT meetings in a year/semester [[barring unavoidable circumstance)or the kid gets the boot?

Doesn't seem like it would matter much if they have to bribe people just to show on count day.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-23-10, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux

Sorry if it's already been said. What about while enroling the child in school, the parent signs a contract stating that they must attend X amount of PT meetings in a year/semester [[barring unavoidable circumstance)or the kid gets the boot?

I like this idea better. It reminds me of something that DetroitTeacher has talked about in the past. DPS has to deal with any kid that's dropped off at their school whereas charter schools only have to deal with the students that perform [[and those are normally the kids with involved parents).

To make your idea work though, we'd need reverse magnet schools. Magnet schools being the schools that attract the best and brightest, we'd have to have schools specifically designed to deal with the underachievers and the ones the parents are not as involved with. This would help DPS' numbers tremendously, because most teachers in most schools would be left with the children that want to learn and not the disruptive kids. Let the special schools deal with the disruptive kids where more resources can be dedicated to dealing with them.

**DetroitTeacher** · October-23-10, 10:10 AM

I don't think Worthy's idea would fly. There are already schools where parents sign a contract to attend PTCs and be involved. CMA is one of those schools. They have a relatively small number of kids, parents are involved and their grad rate is one of the highest in the city. They also have all of the latest gadgets [[and they did before the make-over). If a kid screws up at CMA and their GPA falls, they get the boot. Mandatory parent meetings are held at the beginning of the year and if the parents don't attend, neither do their kids. It's nice to have schools such as this but that leaves other schools to deal with ALL of the bottom feeders [[hence the fights, the truancy, low grad rates, etc.).

I'd like to see Worthy's lil law passed but I don't think it's realistic.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-23-10, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

I don't think Worthy's idea would fly. There are already schools where parents sign a contract to attend PTCs and be involved. CMA is one of those schools. They have a relatively small number of kids, parents are involved and their grad rate is one of the highest in the city. They also have all of the latest gadgets [[and they did before the make-over). If a kid screws up at CMA and their GPA falls, they get the boot. Mandatory parent meetings are held at the beginning of the year and if the parents don't attend, neither do their kids. It's nice to have schools such as this but that leaves other schools to deal with ALL of the bottom feeders [[hence the fights, the truancy, low grad rates, etc.).

I'd like to see Worthy's lil law passed but I don't think it's realistic.

Thanks, I appreciate your response. Sounds to me though that CMA has enacted basically the same policy as Worthy without making it a law. Would it work better if DPS had different levels of schools? The top tier schools would be schools like Cass and Renaissance, then we could have middle level schools for the average students [[who have the involvement of parents), and then schools to deal with the troubled students [[ones who have very little parental involvement). Would that work better than Worthy's proposed law?

Thanks again for your response.

Edit: Ooops, I misread your opening sentence. I thought it said you thought Worthy's law would fly, instead you said it wouldn't fly.

**Danny** · October-23-10, 04:44 PM

It's not part of the state, local constitution laws for anyone to attend PTA meetings or face imprisonment. Mama and Papa have other things to do besides sitting at a meeting hall listing to the crabbiness of other Mamas and Papas along with tenure and union operated teachers.

**DetroitTeacher** · October-24-10, 08:43 AM

Tiered schools might work but I fear a huge teacher turnover from burnout in the lower tier schools. I think schools need a good mix of kids [[I'm not talking about the kids who never show up or who cause SO many issues that it's impossible for anyone to learn). It would be great if all of the kids came in ready to learn and eager to do what they need to do. I'm not so sure I'd want to teach in a school where none of the kids want to be there and there is absoltuely NO parent support.