Greetings from Manchester [[England)

**Barbara Nadel** · October-19-10, 10:58 AM

Hello! My name is Barbara Nadel and I am a British author resident just outside the city of Manchester in the North West of England. I am a Londoner by birth and upbringing and so I really am steeped in big city culture. I first became really bewitched by the city of Detroit a couple of years ago when I saw a film about the ruins of the car plants, mansions, hotels etc. I was instantly captivated. It recalled to me the ruins of the east end of London that I grew up in the 1960s and 70s - an urban wasteland of incredible, fragile beauty, a place also of such obvious gutsiness and spirit. I wanted to visit there and then, but my commitments here in the UK precluded that, until now. In 2011 I will visit Detroit with a view to setting one of my books in the city. I currently write two mystery series, one based in London in the 1940s [[the Hancock series) and one based in modern day Istanbul, Turkey [[the Inspector Ikmen series). It is a book in the latter series that I intend to set in Detroit. So this is me, all ears for anything and everything Detroit and keen to share my UK and Turkey based experiences of big city life in return, You'll have to bear with me, I've never been involved in a Forum of any kind before and so if I am a bit 'green'. Please do be assured however that in no way do I seek to do Detroit down in any shape or form. I come from an old dockside community which just doesn't exist any more. I know how tough it is. I look forward, hopefully, to some good discussions to come!

**gazhekwe** · October-19-10, 11:57 AM

Welcome to Detroit Yes! It is true that Detroit has a lot of heart, and a lot of history. The whole ruin history is a kind of winding down of the 20th century's industrialization. The economy was more diverse before the automotive base took over.

There is a detective series set here that might be fun to read. Maybe you have read some of the Amos Walker series by Loren Estleman. An older series was The Cat Who series by Lillian Jackson Braun. Some of these are set in Detroit in the late 60s and early 70s when the transitioning of Detroit really escalated. The protagonist lived in an artsy community on Hamilton. The Cat Who Turned On and Off is fun. Lillian was the Good Living editor for the Detroit Free Press for 30 years.

I love mysteries and will definitely check out some of yours.

**56packman** · October-20-10, 10:12 AM

Barbara, I was just in your country, I was in Stockport, at the beautiful Plaza cinema there. Spent most of my time in Leeds, and developed a taste for the ales. Bring some if you come to Detroit.

**gnome** · October-20-10, 01:36 PM

We look forward to your visit. Django can give you a tour which will raise beads of sweat on your fingernails.

**tponetom** · October-20-10, 01:55 PM

Barbara Nadel:
I do not know what your limitations are of time and place.
Detroit has the most extravagant history of the 20th Century in terms of misery, melancholia, euphoria, pride, abilities, stamina,,,, and I think you get the picture.
My personal experience would divide Detroit into 3 periods. They being:
1930 - 1950. [[Most of the above adjectives.)
1950 - 1980. A real time of flux.
1980 - To the present. ‘Resolute’ and ‘determination’ comes to mind.

**douglasm** · October-20-10, 08:40 PM

Greetings.....
.....here's an off the wall idea. Click on the link to Soulful Detroit on the left side of this page, go to the Clubhouse, and post a similar request. There's a decent possability that some of the English Northern Soul fans who post there, as well as those from this side of the pond, might be able to help you, too.

**Barbara Nadel** · October-21-10, 03:35 AM

Thank you so much, all of you, for such a warm welcome. I will follow your suggestions and will certainly bring some ale over with me when I visit! I am so enjoying my Detroit research so far and I can't wait to visit next year. Sadly we will all have even more in common than we already do by that time. My government here in the UK have embarked on a series of austerity measures that could wreck this country and lay waste its cities for decades. OK we are in debt but I don't see that putting millions of people onto welfare will help. It's all so redolent of the past. I remember when the London docks were closed in the 1970s and when the mines were shut up here in the north in the 1980s. I am fascinated by and love ruins but I think that we have enough for the moment! That said, looking forward to sweating fingernails! That is SO original!

Pingu · October-21-10, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Barbara Nadel

Hello! My name is Barbara Nadel and I am a British author resident just outside the city of Manchester in the North West of England. I am a Londoner by birth and upbringing and so I really am steeped in big city culture. I first became really bewitched by the city of Detroit a couple of years ago when I saw a film about the ruins of the car plants, mansions, hotels etc. I was instantly captivated. It recalled to me the ruins of the east end of London that I grew up in the 1960s and 70s - an urban wasteland of incredible, fragile beauty, a place also of such obvious gutsiness and spirit. I wanted to visit there and then, but my commitments here in the UK precluded that, until now. In 2011 I will visit Detroit with a view to setting one of my books in the city. I currently write two mystery series, one based in London in the 1940s [[the Hancock series) and one based in modern day Istanbul, Turkey [[the Inspector Ikmen series). It is a book in the latter series that I intend to set in Detroit. So this is me, all ears for anything and everything Detroit and keen to share my UK and Turkey based experiences of big city life in return, You'll have to bear with me, I've never been involved in a Forum of any kind before and so if I am a bit 'green'. Please do be assured however that in no way do I seek to do Detroit down in any shape or form. I come from an old dockside community which just doesn't exist any more. I know how tough it is. I look forward, hopefully, to some good discussions to come!

Slumming in London's East End, gaping at all that "incredible, fragile beauty", you always had the rest of London to go back to. In Detroit there ain't no rest of it, it's all East End.

**Barbara Nadel** · October-25-10, 11:47 AM

I take your point Pingu, and well made. Yes, I could go to posher parts of London if I wanted. But there is a school of thought that says 'why should I?' As an Eastender I have never and could never 'slum it'. I'm from the slums. I know there's a hell of a lot more there than fragile beauty.

Pingu · October-25-10, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Barbara Nadel

I take your point Pingu, and well made. Yes, I could go to posher parts of London if I wanted. But there is a school of thought that says 'why should I?' As an Eastender I have never and could never 'slum it'. I'm from the slums. I know there's a hell of a lot more there than fragile beauty.

And don't get me wrong, like I know anything, the last time I was in "Docklands" it was like "King's Cove" in Rochester [[MI), all sanitized, yuppified, and all that. But Rochester [[MI) never went through anything even close to the Battle of Britain. I just had to say something because when I was a kid Detroit was all about bragging, and now-a-days it's all excuses and apologies [[sh*t, even Toronto gives us an inferiority complex! Who ever saw that a comin' ???) Anyhow, don't pay no mind to me, I'm a fossil.

**Barbara Nadel** · October-26-10, 03:53 AM

Pingu,. no worries. I know where you're coming from. My old borough, including the sanitised bits, was recently voted the worst place to live in the whole country. I don't believe that Eastenders should apologise any more than Detroiters. We have what we have and we are what we are and let's hear it for diversity!
My main concern at the moment is the weather. Basically I want to visit Detroit in January but, I am also considering the beginning of March.I am hesitating over January because of the cold and snow. Sounds pathetic and soft I know, but I broke my leg earlier this year and I have started to notice that the cold aggravates it. I have pins and plates to hold it together and when the sun goes down [[most of the time here now!) it hurts. Any suggestions? Advice? Winter stories?

**Pam** · October-26-10, 05:59 AM

My main concern at the moment is the weather. Basically I want to visit Detroit in January but, I am also considering the beginning of March.I am hesitating over January because of the cold and snow

It will probably still be cold and snowing early in March. Nicer weather starts in April or May.

**Bill07073** · October-26-10, 04:10 PM

Hello:
Are there specific things you are looking to research prior to coming here. Are you just looking for general information. What type of information are your trying to acquire?

**gazhekwe** · October-26-10, 04:33 PM

Long term weather forecasters are up in the air for our section of the country this winter. There will be a La Nina impacting weather, and it will be warmer and drier this winter in the southeast and southwest, but the upper midwest and northeast are a tossup, will it be warmer than usual, more snow? Well,weather or not, January and February are not usually good months here. March is usually not too great either. It can be warm, but then turn absolutely nasty wintery in a trice.

**kryptonite** · October-27-10, 12:28 PM

What a coincidence, I had two lady friends visit Detroit in 2009 from a town south of Manchester, called Wilmslow. They showed myself and three friends around the Wilmslow area and even took us to Castle Howard in Yorkshire [[?). They took us to the train station in Manchester for a day trip on Brit Rail to the Lake District, which was superb.

they were such kind hosts, when they visited Detroit last summer I took them on a few trips into downtown Detroit and across the river to Canada. I tried to show them some nice areas and apparently succeeded, they enoyed their visit very much. We also took them to far northern Michigan, they wanted to see the Great Lakes. They were the nicest people, I hope to visit them again in Wilmslow someday.

**tarkus** · October-27-10, 12:37 PM

Barbara,
Be sure to visit the Detroit Opera House. It was built in the 20's as a movie palace, used up till the late 70's. It then fell into disrepair and abandonment until the mid 90's when it was restored into the Opera House. Make a point to contact Mike Hauser for downtown Detroits history of retail and theaters.

Cheers

**Barbara Nadel** · November-01-10, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bill07073

Hello:
Are there specific things you are looking to research prior to coming here. Are you just looking for general information. What type of information are your trying to acquire?

As well as the location work, which I can only really do when I'm in the city, I am also interested in the motor industry in the 1960s and 70s. This is both as background to the plot of my novel and also for personal reasons too. As a kid I witnessed the death of the London docks in the 1970s and the subsequent unemployment, violence and material degradation that followed it. I would be very interested in hearing from people who worked in the motor industry in Detroit at that time. I am also interested in street gangs of the 1970s and again, I would be interested to hear any stories from that time.

**Barbara Nadel** · November-01-10, 04:32 AM

Just back from London. Thanks so much for weather advice. It seems as if I'm looking at early March. For the sake of the book I should try February but if my leg is hurting all the time that won't be too good. Maybe I'll just take a load of pain killers and try Feb anyway! My record on personal care is poor and so I don't see why that should change now.

Bad news about my poor city of Istanbul at the weekend. Suicide bombers in the central Taksim Square area. Thus far I have always been lucky when I've visited Istanbul and have never actually witnessed any such events. They don't happen often, thank goodness but it is still a shock and I will have to contact friends there just to make sure that everyone is OK. Because I grew up in the late 60s and 70s in London, bombs and the possibility of bombs were part of my everyday life. But its not something anyone can or should get used to. Wherever it happens and for whatever reason these things are bad and they make everyone around them crazy. I can still remember being a young kid in a tube train hearing a big thudding sound somewhere above my head which turned out to be a bomb going off in a station. The train sat in the tunnel for what must have been about half an hour, but it seemed like forever. I can still remember having the absolute conviction that I was going to die.It was hot down there and a man, trying desperately to hold onto his panic, smashed a window and then everyone laughed as the cool air swept in and the silence was broken. Some people did die in Istanbul apparently. A bad weekend.

**JenR** · November-02-10, 11:18 PM

Barbara, I would love to take you touring, there is just TOO many things to see here! The wonderful Detroit waterfront, Eastern Market, Dequindre Cut, Detroit Institute of Arts, the Whitney, Comerica Park and Ford Field, the Historical Society, Indian Village, the Book Cadillac, so many good restaurants, the Manoogian Mansion, the Renaissance Center, riding the People Mover, Campus Martius, atrium of the Compuware Building, Belle Isle, Mexicantown, many architecturally relevant buildings, Spirit of Detroit, Joe Louis fist, Hart Plaza, Greektown restaurants [[amazing) and gaming, etc. So much to see! I will be happy to take you and show you around...welcome to Detroit! It is a FABULOUS city with so much great architecture, history and energy around it. It would be awesome if you could come in January for the auto show to really get a feel for the industry that drives the city but we can also get you a tour of a manufacturing plant and there is also a GM museum of sorts at the Renaissance Center [[GM HQ).

**Barbara Nadel** · November-04-10, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by JenR

Barbara, I would love to take you touring, there is just TOO many things to see here! The wonderful Detroit waterfront, Eastern Market, Dequindre Cut, Detroit Institute of Arts, the Whitney, Comerica Park and Ford Field, the Historical Society, Indian Village, the Book Cadillac, so many good restaurants, the Manoogian Mansion, the Renaissance Center, riding the People Mover, Campus Martius, atrium of the Compuware Building, Belle Isle, Mexicantown, many architecturally relevant buildings, Spirit of Detroit, Joe Louis fist, Hart Plaza, Greektown restaurants [[amazing) and gaming, etc. So much to see! I will be happy to take you and show you around...welcome to Detroit! It is a FABULOUS city with so much great architecture, history and energy around it. It would be awesome if you could come in January for the auto show to really get a feel for the industry that drives the city but we can also get you a tour of a manufacturing plant and there is also a GM museum of sorts at the Renaissance Center [[GM HQ).

Such a kind offer, thank you. But it is a bit of a 'mission' I know. There is so much to see and how do you really do justice to a great city like Detroit? For the purposes of the book I have to focus on car plants and ruined houses, theatres and hotels. Yes I have to do the urban decay thing although I am also committed to injecting hope and reflecting the tenacity and gutsiness of the city. My books have, in the past, been set in what some would perceive as truly desperate districts of Istanbul. And in the past there was, indeed, very little hope for such places. But there are green shoots now [[in spite of the recession) and that, I gather, is the same for Detroit too. The aim of the book, as well as to be part of the Cetin Ikmen canon, is to inspire curiosity in the readers to want to go to the places that I describe, and that includes Detroit.

**Barbara Nadel** · November-04-10, 05:23 AM

Heard the news about your mid-term elections here yesterday. We don't have these here in the UK - once you have a government you're stuck with it for five years, unless there is a vote of what we call 'no confidence' amongst our Members of Parliament. Then the government of the day either wins or loses. The closest I guess we get to the current US situation is when we have a minority government [[as we have now, although they are in coalition with another party and can therefore govern - just). I imagine this means that President Obama will find it difficult to go ahead with his health care program? As I'm sure you all know we've had universal free healthcare here in the UK since 1948. I know it is contentious in the US and that a lot of people oppose it for reasons that we don't fully understand over here -if anyone can enlighten me, that would be great. Basically we all pay for our healthcare through our taxes [[which are high but not ridiculous) and if we get sick we get taken care of. Our National Health Service is free to everyone and anyone and even the rich use it - although not as often as the rest of us as they can afford private care. Earlier in the year my broken leg was fixed free of charge and I know many people who would have certainly died if they had been asked to pay for their care. Private medicine is hugely expensive here. Maybe your President has a different system in mind. But that is my perspective. Private healthcare benefits the poor enormously but it also helps everyone including visitors to this country if they have a medical emergency or an accident. As I say, this is how my country does it.

**Pam** · November-04-10, 08:38 AM

I know it is contentious in the US and that a lot of people oppose it for reasons that we don't fully understand over here -if anyone can enlighten me, that would be great. Basically we all pay for our healthcare through our taxes [[which are high but not ridiculous) and if we get sick we get taken care of. Our National Health Service is free to everyone and anyone and even the rich use it - although not as often as the rest of us as they can afford private care. Earlier in the year my broken leg was fixed free of charge and I know many people who would have certainly died if they had been asked to pay for their care. Private medicine is hugely expensive here. Maybe your President has a different system in mind. But that is my perspective. Private healthcare benefits the poor enormously but it also helps everyone including visitors to this country if they have a medical emergency or an accident. As I say, this is how my country does it.

Unfortunately, European or Canadian style health care was never on the table here. The insurance company and pharmacuetical lobbies are too powerful and "own" too many politicians I guess. A lot of people would support it, except for those who have an irrational fear of anything dubbed "socialist." Yet, Medicare the national health plan for seniors does have wide support, go figure. One idea I heard proposed that they should have tried was to lower the age for Medicare. They could have kept doing that until everyone was covered. So anyway, we got a bill with some reforms but no new system really.

**Bobl** · November-05-10, 10:00 PM

"...I know it is contentious in the US and that a lot of people oppose it for reasons that we don't fully understand over here.."
The politics of fear, fed by the corporate elite, has snookered this nation.

I had a "pen pal" [[does anyone remember pen pals?) back in the sixties, from Manchester. Her descriptions of Manchester life reminded me of Detroit. Gritty, hard working people.

**sumas** · November-09-10, 07:27 AM

Gnome, you gave me my first laugh of the morning. I second your descriptive endorsement of a Django tour.

**sumas** · November-09-10, 08:06 AM

I own a small booklet entitled, "Historical Detroit, A Story in Bronze" you might like to copy.

J L Hudson Co, [[which is no more) commissioned 20 Bronze historical markers to dedicate to the city in 1926 to commemorate its own 45th anniverary. Sadly not a single marker still exists. The booklet has brief histories, pictures and drawings and includes a site location map.

Still laughing about the Django description. Actually you should hire him as tour guide, bodyguard and photographer if you wish to get up close and personal in your ambition to seek out and experience our ruins hands on.