What can we do to deal with the beggars all over Detroit?

**guito13** · October-12-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Okay, you did what you had to do in that situation. But, how often do those types of situations arise? I've been on the streets of Detroit for years. Also, San Francisco and San Diego - much, much worse than Detroit. I've had confrontations and been jumped - never in Detroit. That's a problem. But to consider incarcerating and killing people because you or I have had an angry, even ugly and dangerous confrontation, is ridiculous. To apply our anger at all street people because of a few incidents is ridiculous.

I simply shared a story, at no point did I provide any suggestions as to how to handle such people in general.

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Another bitcher, moaner, groaner. You take a minor problem [[being appproached by panhandlers) and elevate it to a major quality of life and law and order issue. Oh woe is me, I have a poor person asking for a few bucks. What a bunch of cry babies. Your elected politicians have their hands in your pockets for more dollars in a day than these poor people get from you in a lifetime.

It's more than just being approached by them--it's their attitude of entitlement--everyone owes them. Disrespect of people & property. A polititian has never thrown broken glass, or took a dump, in my backyard.[[unprovoked) You really should let some of them live in your house & see how much they respect you. You're proof that bleeding hearts wearing blinders are in every region.

**Detroitnerd** · October-12-10, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by mittengal

It's more than just being approached by them--it's their attitude of entitlement--everyone owes them. Disrespect of people & property. A polititian has never thrown broken glass, or took a dump, in my backyard.[[unprovoked) You really should let some of them live in your house & see how much they respect you. You're proof that bleeding hearts wearing blinders are in every region.

God, what a soaring sense of entitlement you have. I hope you find yourself having to shit in an alley someday and find out just how great it is.

**guito13** · October-12-10, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by mittengal

It's more than just being approached by them--it's their attitude of entitlement--everyone owes them. Disrespect of people & property. A polititian has never thrown broken glass, or took a dump, in my backyard.[[unprovoked) You really should let some of them live in your house & see how much they respect you. You're proof that bleeding hearts wearing blinders are in every region.

I like where you are going with this

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Are you implying that no one who is homeless ever worked and paid into social security? That everybody who is homeless is a drunk drug addict? How about the war vets who came back all fu%#ed up and couldn't adjust back into society? And what do these unfortunate souls [[and if you disagree that they are, would you like to trade places with them?) have to do with the CPI not going up to trigger a raise in SSI?
How do we take the money away from the "drunks and addicts"? Are you proposing that we kick the bums off the freeway onramp and give grandma a sign that says "Hungry Senior. Will work for food. God Bless"?

In a previous post I wrote that I differentiate between bums & homeless. All homeless are not bums, & vice versa. I referred to "professional bums" who have made this their lifestyle & don't avail themselves of help. I never said Grandma should carry a begging sign

Please read posts more carefully before responding. SSI [[Supplemental Security Income) is different from Social Security & does not come out of the social security tax. But it comes from the government, so also out of our pockets. Many of the professional bums get SSI checks. I read in the paper that, like last year, Social Security recipients will not get a cost of living increase. Better than the program running out of money. But the bums are still getting their SSI. That's what I meant by taking money from the drunks & addicts--stop their SSI checks. But with 2 different government programs involved, that would be a problem. I realize this is off on a tangent from Detroit issues, but it does involve Detroit as well as everywhere else.

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

God, what a soaring sense of entitlement you have. I hope you find yourself having to shit in an alley someday and find out just how great it is.

Yes, I'm entitled to respect, as we all are.

**Detroitnerd** · October-12-10, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by mittengal

Yes, I'm entitled to respect, as we all are.

All of us? Genghis Khan? Adolf Hitler? The person who shits behind your house? All of us are entitled to respect? That, my dear lady, is a steaming pile of crap.

**hybridy** · October-12-10, 02:08 PM

if they showcase a skill/craft/trick...not a scam, i may feel inspired to give. no handouts for just asking, bish have to earn it

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

All of us? Genghis Khan? Adolf Hitler? The person who shits behind your house? All of us are entitled to respect? That, my dear lady, is a steaming pile of crap.

I'm not your dear lady & your post is ridiculous. I guess I should have rephrased it as " law biding citizens should not have shit in their backyard". You should also take some bums to live with you.

**rjk** · October-12-10, 02:34 PM

I often wonder wether the people who give money to beggars actually think they're helping them or they give money so they can temporally feel better of themselves. A lot of these people look suspiciously like drug addicts. You ever see the beggars who hang out at the I-75 and 8 Mile traffic lights? I figure I'm doing these guys a favor by not giving them money and delaying their purchase of drugs/booze.

It really doesn't make any sense to give money to beggars when there are so many charities that could make better use of the money.

**lafayette** · October-12-10, 03:03 PM

"I've always heard that Governor Engler was responsible for closing many of the mental health facilities that the state operated? Can anyone back this up?"

One of the first things Engler did was close Lafayette Clinic and ELIMINATE General Assistance, two foundations of support for all the mental problem people you see in Cass Corridor these days. Local mental health facility, gone; General Assistance, gone. His rationale was eliminating General Assistance for "able bodied" people was fair. He defined able bodied as having all four limbs. That's it. They could be crazy batshit and it didn't matter to fat boy from an outstate farm. Those able bodied men were lazy and had to be taken off the dole, by gum. There was much newspaper coverage of those two moves by Engler because they were so heartless and swift and quick once he took office. He went right for the most vulnerable in Detroit right out of the gate in early 1991. Look in the Freep archives - great coverage of the poor, "able bodied" people Engler threw on the streets of Cass Corridor. And most of them were black, too, by the way. Easier to kick around, right John?

**1KielsonDrive** · October-12-10, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

I had a guy come up to me last week while i was filling up. Had a gas can with him asking for money to get home from work. So, I took the gas can [[just a 1 gal can) filled it and handed it back to him.

That's one way to find out and determine what you might want to do in the future.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-12-10, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by guito13

I simply shared a story, at no point did I provide any suggestions as to how to handle such people in general.

Oft times sharing stories of how you handled situations with others helps them to decide what to do should they encounter a similar situation. This is especially true if it results in a good outcome.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-12-10, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

All of us? Genghis Khan? Adolf Hitler? The person who shits behind your house? All of us are entitled to respect? That, my dear lady, is a steaming pile of crap.

Another example of hyperbole - taking a statement made with good intentions, and extrapolating it to the umpteenth degree. You know exactly what point was being made. Now, of course you'll argue that some more.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-12-10, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by lafayette

"I've always heard that Governor Engler was responsible for closing many of the mental health facilities that the state operated? Can anyone back this up?"

One of the first things Engler did was close Lafayette Clinic and ELIMINATE General Assistance, two foundations of support for all the mental problem people you see in Cass Corridor these days. Local mental health facility, gone; General Assistance, gone. His rationale was eliminating General Assistance for "able bodied" people was fair. He defined able bodied as having all four limbs. That's it. They could be crazy batshit and it didn't matter to fat boy from an outstate farm. Those able bodied men were lazy and had to be taken off the dole, by gum. There was much newspaper coverage of those two moves by Engler because they were so heartless and swift and quick once he took office. He went right for the most vulnerable in Detroit right out of the gate in early 1991. Look in the Freep archives - great coverage of the poor, "able bodied" people Engler threw on the streets of Cass Corridor. And most of them were black, too, by the way. Easier to kick around, right John?

Right on the money.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-12-10, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by mittengal

It's more than just being approached by them--it's their attitude of entitlement--everyone owes them. Disrespect of people & property. A polititian has never thrown broken glass, or took a dump, in my backyard.[[unprovoked) You really should let some of them live in your house & see how much they respect you. You're proof that bleeding hearts wearing blinders are in every region.

Those street people acting, as you put it - unprovoked, are just closer to you than those big shots and corporations who rip you off everyday, giving you a much closer target to take your anger out on. And much easier targets - no lawyers, 800 numbers, marketing campaigns, layers of bureaucracy, and foreign headquarters. Particularly obvious by your reaction in this post. [[And yes, I'm a bleeding heart).

**East Detroit** · October-12-10, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by mittengal

In a previous post I wrote that I differentiate between bums & homeless. All homeless are not bums, & vice versa. I referred to "professional bums" who have made this their lifestyle & don't avail themselves of help.

How do you identify the professionals from the amateur dabblers?

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

How do you identify the professionals from the amateur dabblers?

The people who are on the street panhandling for years, even decades, & expect others to support their lifestyle.

**mittengal** · October-12-10, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Those street people acting, as you put it - unprovoked, are just closer to you than those big shots and corporations who rip you off everyday, giving you a much closer target to take your anger out on. And much easier targets - no lawyers, 800 numbers, marketing campaigns, layers of bureaucracy, and foreign headquarters. Particularly obvious by your reaction in this post. [[And yes, I'm a bleeding heart).

Unprovoked = meaning I did nothing to provoke his actions. I did not know he was there until the harassment began. I did not mention he also cursed at me for letting my dogs out in my own backyard in the morning.
You sure are angry at "The Establishment". Sounds like you're stuck in the 60's

**wolverine** · October-12-10, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

If you want to be let be, then tell the person who's approaching you exactly that. Stop all of this nonsense about being approached as a major problem. Euthanasia and incarceration? Law enforcement? I get more spam and unsolicited phone calls in a day than I get approached by street people, homeless or otherwise, in a month. This is a non-issue unless you have no life to begin with, and no place to focus your anger and no desire to improve our society. Like I said before, go to a shelter and volunteer. You might actually see the problems first hand and do something constructive.

I can understand your frustrations with this discussion, but some of us probably deal with more homeless in a day than you probably do in a week. This isn't a personal attack, I'm just putting it into perspective. As I said, we had a 'resident' homeless person outside my apartment building I had to put up with for a month. How would you like to walk out your front door every morning and be hassled for change? While after you had repeatedly said you would not...after you had given him a couple bucks the first time [[big mistake). Finally this guy was banned from the area.

Daily, I'll encounter about 12-25 panhandlers depending on the weather. Most just stand there repeating themselves for change without staring at you directly. These people I don't mind...and it basically supports your point, 1KielsonDrive. Just keep moving on....

But I've had some run-ins with homeless that have vented their frustration on me because I had my headphones on and paid no mind. They'd stand in my way, yell and curse. I've seen it happen to plenty other people. It's a surprise because it's not like I'm coming off as an asshole. I'm merely walking past with my head low. Sometimes it's a big problem because they can follow you for a block even after you say "No I'm sorry, I have no change."

1KielsonDrive, sorry you get so much spam. You can hang up a phone. I really think there may be more to this issue than people see. And fyi, I don't dislike the homeless, but they can be a nuisance like loud noise can be a nuisance. I believe it's a problem that can be fixed, and I believe my city is working to do just so. What's interesting is at night, streets are clear, doorways are clear, alleys are clear. Where did they all go?

I'm not sure why you disagree with my points. My premise is solve the homeless problem by providing basic shelter, food, and medical assistance, then continue to ban panhandling.

Ravine · October-12-10, 10:35 PM

"My premise is solve the homeless problem by providing basic shelter, food, and medical assistance, then continue to ban panhandling."

Terrific!! Who's gonna pay for it?

**wolverine** · October-13-10, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Terrific!! Who's gonna pay for it?

You will, of course. Like everyone else.

So about panhandling....want to pay more?

Ravine · October-13-10, 12:19 AM

Walk us through this dynamite plan.
So, one declares oneself to be homeless, and that person is inducted into a system wherein their 3 basic needs-- food, shelter, medical assistance-- are covered? And I will be paying for that?

**wolverine** · October-13-10, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Walk us through this dynamite plan.
So, one declares oneself to be homeless, and that person is inducted into a system wherein their 3 basic needs-- food, shelter, medical assistance-- are covered? And I will be paying for that?

Will be? You already do. Plenty of these facilities be it clinics or housing receive state funding...some of it federal, some of it local. It's your tax money. I'm really not into debating whether that's right or wrong. I'm just surprised you act like this has never been done. I mean literally tens of thousands of units have been constructed across the midwest. Have you heard about the 100,000 homes program?

Ravine · October-13-10, 12:48 AM

You're explaining that which I already know, while missing my indirectly-stated assertion: It ain't that simple to solve the homelessness problem. For instance, the fact that there are soup kitchens & shelters already up & running does not keep people off of the streets, and using our tax money to fund ambiguously-defined programs won't do it, either.
The hypothetical approach you mentioned would draw a line stretching from Jefferson to Hall Road.