What can we do to deal with the beggars all over Detroit?

[5speedz34]

This is not a problem that just happened.When I started at Cass tech in 1971 there were always people panhandling down there.But then again there were cheap places to stay in the Cass Corridor at $5 a night hotels.There were mental health treatment facilities that they could go to,for example Northville,Ypsi State Hospital,Eloise,Herman Kiefer,Lafayette Clinic.Now,without the safety net that these facilities provided,we have a problem.The biggest problem is who would pay for these types of places again.Instead,for the most part,the jails and prisons handle these types of people that are on the fringe of our society.So rather than send some of these people to a state run mental health institution when they need an intervention,they get sent to the Wayne County Jail or a Michigan State Prison.There were safe places for the majority of these people to go to but now the State sends X amount of dollars to each county to use for mental health programs.No more big institutions so now we have more "street" people....

I've always heard that Governor Engler was responsible for closing many of the mental health facilities that the state operated? Can anyone back this up?

[MaxDetroit]

This is not a problem that just happened.When I started at Cass tech in 1971 there were always people panhandling down there.But then again there were cheap places to stay in the Cass Corridor at $5 a night hotels.There were mental health treatment facilities that they could go to,for example Northville,Ypsi State Hospital,Eloise,Herman Kiefer,Lafayette Clinic.Now,without the safety net that these facilities provided,we have a problem.The biggest problem is who would pay for these types of places again.Instead,for the most part,the jails and prisons handle these types of people that are on the fringe of our society.So rather than send some of these people to a state run mental health institution when they need an intervention,they get sent to the Wayne County Jail or a Michigan State Prison.There were safe places for the majority of these people to go to but now the State sends X amount of dollars to each county to use for mental health programs.No more big institutions so now we have more "street" people....

To make room in the budget for tax cuts Fat John gutted the state mental health system during the 90's, dumping tens of thousands of mentally ill people onto the streets to fend for themselves. The situation has continued to deteriorate every year since then. Of course Fat John wouldn't notice. He left the state for greener pastures long ago.

[RYANGUARD]

Govenor Milliken started closing state institutions,then Blanchard but the majority of the State Hospitals that closed were during Govenor Englers' terms in office.It was believed that people were better served in a neighborhood setting i e group homes than in a large institutional setting like Ypsi,Northville,Eloise,Herman Kiefer.So with more of these types of people in the neighborhoods,a lot of them fell through the cracks because each county only has so much money that is allotted to them by the State of Michigan for mental health programs.

[gazhekwe]

Yes, Engler felt the community could best handle their own mentally ill people. He closed the state programs and institutions and instituted local funding. Spreading it out spread it too thin and see what happened. It's cheaper for the state, that way he could lower taxes and not go belly up immediately.

[wolverine]

No need to apologize on coming down on the homeless. No one likes to be hassled on their way to work or night on the town. I remember there used to be a guy that would linger outside my apartment building, and I'd have to put up with him every day on my way to work. Eventually the city removed him and signed the area a "panhandling free" zone. But such a program needs to be justified. Either provide them somewhere to stay or expect them to beg for money.

Not sure what can legally be done about the homeless. If they don't bother anyone, there's not much police can do if they are in public space. I lived in Chicago and found one sleeping in the back vestibule of my building on the Mag Mile. I looked, he looked, and he went back to sleep. It was weird, but nothing happened. In the DC area, they're all over the place, including the tourist sites.

Had the same thing happen as well, Mag Mile, except the back door service vestibule. Might have not complained, except they were blocking the fire exit and their unwashed clothes made the room smell like stale piss.


I don't usually give any money out. Heck if I did everyday, I'd be spending more on them, then myself. More often than not I smell the scent of alcohol, and the several times I've brought back beer to my place for a party, I've had homeless follow me at least a block begging for a can.

I can't offer any answers. I only hope more shelters are built and better medical assistance is provided. I can't say for certain this will cut down on panhandling, but if these people get the basics to live and not suffer on the streets, the city can ban panhandling citywide and we'll all be alot happier.

[English]

I've always heard that Governor Engler was responsible for closing many of the mental health facilities that the state operated? Can anyone back this up?

I can't back it up from the stats, but I remember when I first started seeing homeless all over the place as a teenager and was told it was Engler's fault. You saw people at freeway exits for the first time with signs.

Our society just doesn't have the safety net that it used to.

[Ravine]

I get really tired of beggers, too; I've bitched about it right here on DY.
At the same time, vagrants stumbling around asking for a hand-out are a Fact of City Life. When I have allowed myself to become too intolerant about it, I hit myself with the trusty old "there but for the grace..." admonition, and since I mean it sincerely, it always helps.
Another therapy, which sounds odd: Give in. When you run into one who doesn't seem like a total jive-ass, give him-- or her-- a couple of bucks. Hopefully, two or three bucks won't cause you to miss a cable payment, eh?, and you may find that you feel less irritable about the entire matter.
Also, folks who are truly hungry usually truly look hungry.

And, the "They ought to do something about this problem" song is tiresome and foolish. There isn't a "they," and there isn't anything to be "done."
Unless you do it.

[Ravine]

Engler did give the Imperial Order to have some of the places which once housed some of these dis-enfranchised persons closed, but that's another song that has become old.
It's a big [[enough) city with a terrible un-employment problem, and some of the Lost People who have fallen on hard times [[many of them now with substance abuse habits) are just Out There, roaming the streets.
Some folks would have you believe that each & every one of them was air-lifted out of a care facility and deposited onto the streets of Detroit by John Engler personally.

[BrushStart]

Engler did give the Imperial Order to have some of the places which once housed some of these dis-enfranchised persons closed, but that's another song that has become old.
It's a big [[enough) city with a terrible un-employment problem, and some of the Lost People who have fallen on hard times [[many of them now with substance abuse habits) are just Out There, roaming the streets.
Some folks would have you believe that each & every one of them was air-lifted out of a care facility and deposited onto the streets of Detroit by John Engler personally.

The closing of the mental hospitals wasn't a static event with static consequences. It has continuing consequences, such as not being able to house the mentally ill of today, not just the mentally ill of yesterday. People were let out when they closed, and new people cannot go in because they don't exist. Therefore, it is a compounding problem, and the buck stopped [[stops?) with Engler.

[Ravine]

Quite so. And yet, when those places were open, Detroit still had this problem, although not as bad.

[wolverine]

I get really tired of beggers, too; I've bitched about it right here on DY.
At the same time, vagrants stumbling around asking for a hand-out are a Fact of City Life. When I have allowed myself to become too intolerant about it, I hit myself with the trusty old "there but for the grace..." admonition, and since I mean it sincerely, it always helps.
Another therapy, which sounds odd: Give in. When you run into one who doesn't seem like a total jive-ass, give him-- or her-- a couple of bucks. Hopefully, two or three bucks won't cause you to miss a cable payment, eh?, and you may find that you feel less irritable about the entire matter.
Also, folks who are truly hungry usually truly look hungry.

And, the "They ought to do something about this problem" song is tiresome and foolish. There isn't a "they," and there isn't anything to be "done."
Unless you do it.

LOL, when I used to be a bit more giving with cash, I'd hand them $1, they'd tell me it wasn't enough. Once I gave a guy $2. He complained and said I should give $5. I think that, on top of the alcohol smell was where I completely stopped. I noticed if I put headphones on, they'll completely ignore you. Helps me avoid obnoxious petition and survey people out on the street too.

[gazhekwe]

That's when I quit, too, when they started demanding more than I gave.

[FredGarvin]

Maybe a bill collection company could open a call center in Detroit and hire them. They're already asking people for money, now they would get paid for doing it.

In all seriousness, I used to live in Indy, and there was a panhandling problem there as well. The city placed steel lock boxes on street corners where panhandlers worked. If generous citizens wanted to give and help the homeless, they could donate into these lock boxes, the city would collect the monies every other day or so, and distribute it to homeless shelters within the city so the homeless would benefit.

If someone still was inclined to panhandle, they had to stay 50 feet from ATM's and bank exits [[they used to hit you up as soon as you left one), and could not verbally ask for money. Basically they put a few coins into a cup and shook it so you could hear the money and you knew they were panhandling, but they could not verbally ask for it.

[bartock]

Agreed. Detroit beggars are nothing compared to NYC beggars. And in NY they literally make it into an art form. It's a very competitive field.

Heck, even Ann Arbor has a significant beggar population.

Interesting that someone who has asked me to explain things further and provide statistics would use such conjecture to talk about "significant" "beggars" in Ann Arbor.

Let me strongly suggest with the lack of "evidence" you've provided that Ann Arbor's "beggars" are largely different than Detroit's. You have your own opinions about NYC's, which I would not have the direct statistics or personal knowledge to comment on.

[bartock]

That's the thing; there's no way Oakland County would let them hang out there. Police would send them right back beyond the Detroit city limits. This is why you don't see bums wandering in the Pointes.

Detroit needs to take 2 large buildings and convert one into a recovery center that provides temporary living quarters, drug rehabilitation, psychological treatment, a health clinic, job training, food and other basic necessities. The other facility needs to offer similar amenities, but should be situated as long-term housing for those who are handicapped both physically or mentally and cannot care for themselves. Weekly drug testing would be a must, and if a resident dropped dirty, their case is referred to the police for investigation. This would eliminate a substantial amount of homeless beggers.

The facilities should be large-scale and funded by regional government as well as charitible organizations and philanthropy. Everything should be organized under a centralized management to keep costs low. Local churches and ministries should be encouraged to divert funding from their shelters and kitchens and apply those resources to the main facility. The state health department should audit the facilities monthly to ensure that they are humane. High school students could volunteer their time, and grad students could volunteer and do internships in basically any of the medical fields. Other volunteers could also contribute.

Sure, some people will fall through the cracks and end up back on the street, but many will be successful and climb out of their situation. Overall, Detroit would improve immensely and a wide-variety of crime would decrease, i.e. drug crimes, property crimes, and robberies. Many of the homeless are the result of Engler closing the state's mental health facilities. Local charities did not have the resources to absorb that amount of people, so they ended up on the street.

I don't see this as a suburban-city issue per se. The Pointes are in Wayne County. Fine to blame Engler, but he is from the west side of Michigan and did his business in Lansing. I doubt most of those displaced by those changes even had the wherewithall to try to get into Oakland County. It goes back to being a state issue.

[yaktown]

I was in Nashville this past summer and the homeless have their own newspaper, the Contributor. Not sure if it would work here but it's something to think about.

http://www.nashvillecontributor.org/main/

[Det_ard]

I can't back it up from the stats, but I remember when I first started seeing homeless all over the place as a teenager and was told it was Engler's fault. You saw people at freeway exits for the first time with signs.

Our society just doesn't have the safety net that it used to.

I always hear it's Engler's fault. That he decided to close down the mental institutions and put the mentally ill out on the street. Because he's mean and a republican and fat.

Doesn't matter that it's not true. I still believe it, same as I believe Obama isn't a US citizen and he's really a Muslim.

[detroitbob66]

"Sir, Sir" will leave you alone if you intimidate him.

The others? When they ask you for something, just tell them, "No thank you." I'm not sure if it confuses them or if they think I'm a demented old woman.

It works.

Thats f*ckin great man! Since I live at Cass Park, I will be able to practice using his theory soon. I always tell them that it is 2010 and I dont carry cash anymore, only plastic! This really works well.

[Pingu]

Beggars are people, and what they're really begging for is just some simple human interaction. Is this too much to ask? All you got to do is light up a cigarette, offer them one, light it, and move on. Maybe forty years ago this beggar was carrying an M-16, crawling through the jungles of Viet Nam. It ain't none of your business, anyhow, all you need to do is treat him with friendship and respect. Quit yer bitchin', dillstick.

[CLAUDE G]

I used to work at U Haul when I was younger. I'll never forget I went to check in a truck and the back door was open about 6 inches high. I closed the door and put the latch on it and got in the truck and drove the truck inside.

Next thing you know I got banging and yelling from someone inside the truck asking for me to let them out

Agreed the problem is not as bad as New York when you give a bum $5 and all of a sudden you got 10 other bums hitting you up for change also, but it does fricken piss me off.

#1 The most annoying one is the guy who sits infront of Comerica park and yells eat em up tigers. I would like to punch that guy in the face because he is so fricken annoying.

#2 The second most annoying one is the guy who sits at Rosa Parks and the I-75 service drive by Old Tiger Stadium. I was going down to the field at Old Tiger Stadium the other day, and the idiot infront of me decided to back up to give the begger some change. The guy infront of me almost hit me backing up if it was not for my horn.

#3 The guys who sit at every red light on the I-75 service drive by MGM Grand Casino

#4 The guys who harrass you when your at Mc Donalds in the drive through. They sit there like a 3rd window so you can deposit all of your change that you got at the first window.

[Ravine]

Beggars are people, and what they're really begging for is just some simple human interaction. Is this too much to ask? All you got to do is light up a cigarette, offer them one, light it, and move on. Maybe forty years ago this beggar was carrying an M-16, crawling through the jungles of Viet Nam. It ain't none of your business, anyhow, all you need to do is treat him with friendship and respect. Quit yer bitchin', dillstick.

I think there is a bit more to the issue than that, but your blunt & simple declaration has a good deal of merit, in my view.

[MizMotown]

We have this issue where I work on a daily basis. The same folks over and over begging for money. Not too long ago some guy went off on one of them and told him to quit asking women for money. Told him he once was on the streets himself and he seeked help from the church. Walked away and then came back and gave him $3.00 bucks, told him to get off the drugs and to give his life over to Jesus Christ. Haven't seen the guy since.

[Danny]

1. Let them beg.
2. Provide medical and psychological treatment.
3. Give them housing.
4. Give them a job.
5. Give them a full open mouth, lingering French kiss to show that you fully realize that they are human.
6. Give them Danny's address.

Did you beg someone for some money? I did a long time ago.

[DetLiving]

So, it's ok for you to have Freedom of Speech but not the homeless or the person begging. They have a right to ask, you have a right to say no.

I think it's more about aleaving your quilt when you walk by. Really, how much money have you given them?

[Valerie]

Toronto and Vancouver have huge numbers of beggars downtown. A lot of runaway teens from small towns tend to migrate to these cities and the homeless problem is just as bad. The problem in Detroit is not the number of beggars, it's the lack of other pedestrians. You are one-on-one with the beggars instead of part of a crowded sidewalk.

I agree 100% with this. I have never been to a large city where I HAVEN'T been pestered by beggars. I think it makes people more nervous in Detroit when they see more beggars on the street than not. Personally, I have never had anyone be hostile towards me. Persistent? Maybe - but not in a way that I have ever felt threatened. So what's the solution? Get some more pedestrians on the street, and you won't notice as much! Easy fix- right?