Detroit Pistons To Be Bought By Mike Ilitch!

[Crew]

If Mike wants to see a new arena built, he better get a shoevel in the ground soon. He will be 82 years old in July. He will be at least 85 before any new area could be built.

[BrushStart]

I think the Freep article is total BS. If Ilitch threatened to move the Wings [[more than temporarily) out of downtown, everyone would call his bluff. The guy has invested a fortune in Foxtown, and Wings fans dump tons of $$$ into his businesses in Detroit. It's a no-brainer for the City of Detroit to help fund a new arena- doing so would be the best investment the City could make this century. Detroit is re-emerging as the wheelhouse of the region and state. The city needs to continue to pour investment inwards so money and influence continue to flow in that direction. Bing knows this, Ilitch knows this, even LBP knows this. Moving the Wings out to the 'burbs would be the worst thing that could happen to Metro Detroit right now.

Ilitch wants a monopoly on Detroit entertainment, true, but he did not buy the Pistons to corner the City into helping him pay for a new arena. He could have likely done that without buying the Pistons. Nobody has more clout in Detroit than Mike Ilitch, and the City has no better partner right now for turning the direction of investment back towards Detroit.

The Wings and Pistons will both be downtown shortly, and it will be the best thing for Detroit, the region, and of course for Ilitch. This development will build on continued momentum to make Detroit the regional business hub and enable it to attract outside business and investment. When Dan Gilbert gets multiple calls per day about doing business in Detroit's CBD, this is one additional thing he can point to.

[esp1986]

Well I think the Palace just went through a big renovation, which means it won't need to be replaced for quite some time.

And you make my exact point that by keeping them in separate markets, they won't be competing for the same entertainment dollars.

Also, your argument that two teams have to play on the same night to compete for the same entertainment dollars is flawed. Most people will spend X amount on attending sporting events in a given year, and X does not become X*2 just because a new team moves to town. The pie is only so large, and it doesn't get larger just because another person sits down at the table. Whether teams play on the same night or not, fans will usually attend close to the same number of games. The fact that the Pistons play on a Friday and the Wings play on Saturday doesn't mean a fan won't have to choose which one to go see, especially when attending just one can run in the hundreds of dollars.

Problem is they aren't separate markets. The Pistons are just in a part of the Red Wings' market. The advantage to being in the city for a team that is struggling as the Pistons are right now, is there are more people there that will likely go see them. I don't have the time to drive to see them when they're good, let alone when they're awful, it's just a waste of my time.

From the arena's perspective, they completed some minor "renovations" and a small expansion in 2008. The work was mostly done beneath the court, consisting merely of conference rooms with projectors to watch the games on. This adds little value to the arena, however, it did give them the ability to host conferences.

PSE said back around the time that Ilitch lured Tom Wilson away, that they had planned to build a new arena in 8-10 years. That would put the age of the Palace at 30 years, just above the accounting life of the building, as I said in an earlier post. I suspect PSE was waiting until they had gained all of their tax benefit before building anew, but that's just me. Sure the Palace is in good shape now, but with the Red Wings needing a new arena, one that will likely be state-of-the-art, it won't make a whole lot of sense for Ilitch to pay to maintain two state of the art arenas, especially when the Palace is nearly 30 years old now.

I don't think the Pistons will move to The Joe, but I think that as soon as a new arena is built, and that is clearly Mr. I's intention, the Pistons will join the Red Wings downtown. There is just no financial case to be made for operating and maintaining two arenas. You can argue that there are two different markets, but at the end of the day, the Pistons are shielding themselves from a lot of people in the western and southern suburbs, like me, who don't have the time to spend 5 hours driving to and from a basketball game, let alone the three hours spent at the game.

And if you really want a financial case for it, all of Ilitch's holdings are in downtown Detroit. The more people that come downtown for Pistons, Red Wings, Tigers, Fox Theatre, Masonic and City Theatre events, the more people that patronize his other businesses. I just don't see him investing a ton of money into those types of businesses in Oakland County just so he can get a little more revenue out of it. He already has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in Detroit, so he isn't going to move it now.

[esp1986]

I think the Freep article is total BS. If Ilitch threatened to move the Wings [[more than temporarily) out of downtown, everyone would call his bluff. The guy has invested a fortune in Foxtown, and Wings fans dump tons of $$$ into his businesses in Detroit. It's a no-brainer for the City of Detroit to help fund a new arena- doing so would be the best investment the City could make this century. Detroit is re-emerging as the wheelhouse of the region and state. The city needs to continue to pour investment inwards so money and influence continue to flow in that direction. Bing knows this, Ilitch knows this, even LBP knows this. Moving the Wings out to the 'burbs would be the worst thing that could happen to Metro Detroit right now.

Ilitch wants a monopoly on Detroit entertainment, true, but he did not buy the Pistons to corner the City into helping him pay for a new arena. He could have likely done that without buying the Pistons. Nobody has more clout in Detroit than Mike Ilitch, and the City has no better partner right now for turning the direction of investment back towards Detroit.

The Wings and Pistons will both be downtown shortly, and it will be the best thing for Detroit, the region, and of course for Ilitch. This development will build on continued momentum to make Detroit the regional business hub and enable it to attract outside business and investment. When Dan Gilbert gets multiple calls per day about doing business in Detroit's CBD, this is one additional thing he can point to.

I am with you... he has been amassing land in Lower Midtown and west of Foxtown for some time now. He has spoken to Wayne County and the City of Detroit about financing [[probably a short talk on the latter). Odds are, this just gives him a little bit more leverage when it comes to securing his portion of the financing, something that will be imperative in this economy, as he will have to foot a significant portion of the bill himself to make this happen right now. Having two teams there will make banks much more likely to finance the project, as it then becomes a safer investment for them.

[MidniteSingh]

According to wikipedia, the capacity at the Palace is 22,076 and the capacity at the Joe is 20,076 for hockey and 21,800 for basketball. Given the similarity in size, does anyone think there is a chance the city asks Illitch to bring the Pistons to the Joe while a new arena is built? This would give the city some additional tax dollars to help fund the construction, and other dominos would start falling in the CBD sooner rather than later...

[Hypestyles]

what about minority shareholders.. outreach to African-Americans, Arab-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Asian-Americans..
...Wasn't Magic Johnson trying to get involved in the bids?

[R8RBOB]

According to wikipedia, the capacity at the Palace is 22,076 and the capacity at the Joe is 20,076 for hockey and 21,800 for basketball. Given the similarity in size, does anyone think there is a chance the city asks Illitch to bring the Pistons to the Joe while a new arena is built? This would give the city some additional tax dollars to help fund the construction, and other dominos would start falling in the CBD sooner rather than later...

Easy there Mid, though we want the Pistons downtown, lets not rush this. Even if the Ilitches take possession of the Palace they aren't going to abandon it before they have a plan to use it other than a professional sports arena.

[bailey]

According to wikipedia, the capacity at the Palace is 22,076 and the capacity at the Joe is 20,076 for hockey and 21,800 for basketball. Given the similarity in size, does anyone think there is a chance the city asks Illitch to bring the Pistons to the Joe while a new arena is built? This would give the city some additional tax dollars to help fund the construction, and other dominos would start falling in the CBD sooner rather than later...

Um. the palace has a multitude of high end [[read high profit margin) suites and suite like [[the bunker suites) amenities that the Joe does not. The wings will move the palace to milk that easy revenue for a while before any shovels go into the ground in Detroit.

[lincoln8740]

Um. the palace has a multitude of high end [[read high profit margin) suites and suite like [[the bunker suites) amenities that the Joe does not. The wings will move the palace to milk that easy revenue for a while before any shovels go into the ground in Detroit.

yep on that one. I can't see a puck dropping at a new arena for at least ten years. Which means the Wings will be out in Auburn Hills for that time period. Which sucks for east side season ticket holders [[like myself). I go to about twenty regular season games a year, I am thinking that number will drop to 5. But hey I could be like those idiot callers on 97.1 after a loss by the lions who say " I am never going to watch them again!" Which we all know is bullshit--so ya never know!

[bailey]

yep on that one. I can't see a puck dropping at a new arena for at least ten years. Which means the Wings will be out in Auburn Hills for that time period. Which sucks for east side season ticket holders [[like myself). I go to about twenty regular season games a year, I am thinking that number will drop to 5. But hey I could be like those idiot callers on 97.1 after a loss by the lions who say " I am never going to watch them again!" Which we all know is bullshit--so ya never know!

only 10? heck I would bet it's 10 before a plan to make a plan is even released.

[Gistok]

There are certainly benefits to having a single arena. They just have to be balanced against the detriments to having a single arena. It's not a no-brainer that multiple teams should always be consolidated into a single arena as people on this board make it seem. There are reasons that not every city does this, and having a sprawled population like metro Detroit does is one of the major factors that needs to be considered.



Not necessarily. A metro-Detroit family who decides to go watch a sporting event on a given weekend might very well choose between seeing the Pistons play on Friday or the Red Wings play in Sunday. But by keeping the Pistons in OC, you tap a different market, albeit with some [[beneficial) overlap.

Artds.... I don't know what the heck you're talking about.... first you mention that LA has 15 million people and it isn't the same type of market as Detroit.. and then you talk about the detriment of Detroit's sprawl.... Has it ever occurred to you that those 15 million in LA are spread out to nearly twice the size of metro Detroit??

And your Oakland County being a different market.... where did you get that one from??

If 3 teams can play in LA in a single venue for a metro area twice the size of Detroit, then why does Detroit count as having Oakland County as a separate market??

And the Pistons eventually WILL play in Detroit again. The city will not pay for it... it will likely be another combination of tourist taxes, tobacco settlement taxes, and other creative financing... like they did for CoPa and Ford Field.

Only thing is Eminent Domain cannot be used to acquire the remaining land near Foxtown.

[Danny]

I found a new spot for the Detroit Pistons near Downtown Detroit. On Woodward Ave. between Temple St. and I-75 FWY.

[BigD]

yep on that one. I can't see a puck dropping at a new arena for at least ten years. Which means the Wings will be out in Auburn Hills for that time period. Which sucks for east side season ticket holders [[like myself). I go to about twenty regular season games a year, I am thinking that number will drop to 5. But hey I could be like those idiot callers on 97.1 after a loss by the lions who say " I am never going to watch them again!" Which we all know is bullshit--so ya never know!

There is no way the Wings move to the Palace for 10 years. That would have devastating effects for downtown Detroit, and more importantly for Ilitch's Hockeytown and Motor City Casino. The most likely scenario is the Wings stay at the Joe and the Pistons stay at the Palace while the new arena is built.

[MidniteSingh]

Um. the palace has a multitude of high end [[read high profit margin) suites and suite like [[the bunker suites) amenities that the Joe does not. The wings will move the palace to milk that easy revenue for a while before any shovels go into the ground in Detroit.

So to milk the easy revenue generated by a few more snazzy suites they'd forego the revenue generated by Red Wings fans current patronage to MCC and his other downtown properties? We could just as easily flip it and say that he's more interested in the incremental bump in revenue at his other properties if he moved the Pistons into the Joe before a shovel hits the ground.

It would also give him more negotiating power for the lease at the Joe, and may help him sell or lease the UA, etc. He has much more to gain by bringing more downtown sooner rather than later. [[soon being next season).

Not to mention if moving the Pistons downtown is on his bucket list - he's probably going to want to put that in the books.

[R8RBOB]

There is no way the Wings move to the Palace for 10 years. That would have devastating effects for downtown Detroit, and more importantly for Ilitch's Hockeytown and Motor City Casino. The most likely scenario is the Wings stay at the Joe and the Pistons stay at the Palace while the new arena is built.

Everyone knows that the Wings would not be in Auburn Hills for a decade if not at all. Ilitch getting the Pistons will accelerate the need to build a new arena.

[EastSider]

It's a no-brainer for the City of Detroit to help fund a new arena- doing so would be the best investment the City could make this century.

Even making allowances for hyperbole, your statement is rock-bottom stupid.

How about improving police, fire and EMS services?

What about the school system?

All of that takes a backseat to a sports arena?

Go back to playing Sim City.

[bailey]

So to milk the easy revenue generated by a few more snazzy suites they'd forego the revenue generated by Red Wings fans current patronage to MCC and his other downtown properties? We could just as easily flip it and say that he's more interested in the incremental bump in revenue at his other properties if he moved the Pistons into the Joe before a shovel hits the ground.

It would also give him more negotiating power for the lease at the Joe, and may help him sell or lease the UA, etc. He has much more to gain by bringing more downtown sooner rather than later. [[soon being next season).

Not to mention if moving the Pistons downtown is on his bucket list - he's probably going to want to put that in the books.

its not a few more snazzy suites it's multiple levels of suites at tens of thousands each and every home game. Its a whole new revenue stream. Also, they aren't paying to keep the Joe from collapsing in on itself anymore, keeping that decrepit wreck up and running has to be a serious drain. And it's not like the MCC is empty on non hockey nights. Also, the pistons are not moving from a state of the art facility to the dump that is joe louis, not gonna happen.

[spiritofdetroit]

bailey -

the wings are not going to the Palace for a decade. Maybe a couple of years, but I am not sure about that.

Ilitch has said he wants a new arena downtown. In fact, its the biggest reason he is buying the Pistons.

He has had conversations with the city and the county re: a new stadium. He has bought up enough land to build the stadium. Rumor has it, he has been shopping financing to Wall Street.

Motorcity Casino, Hockeytown Cafe, all of his parking lots, his investment in the Woodward light rail, his tenants at the Fox [[DaEduardo's and the new restuarant opening at the old Johhny Rocket's), even Comerica Park - would greatly benefit by having a new arena and both teams downtown. He will only threaten in order to get the most of the city and county. But, the teams aren't going anywhere. And I bet a new arena is shovel in the ground in under 2 years.

[rjk]

The Palace has 180 suites compared to 86 at the JLA.
Plus he would get full control of parking and food concessions assuming he wants buy PS&E which is being reported.

To think he's not doing this in large part to hold over Bing's head is foolish. Of course he's going to use this to his advantage as any good buisness person would. Someone mentioned that Bing should call his bluff. As if the city is any position to call anyone's bluff? Bing better get ready to bend over and grab his ankles.

[R8RBOB]

The Palace has 180 suites compared to 86 at the JLA.
Plus he would get full control of parking and food concessions assuming he wants buy PS&E which is being reported.

To think he's not doing this in large part to hold over Bing's head is foolish. Of course he's going to use this to his advantage as any good buisness person would. Someone mentioned that Bing should call his bluff. As if the city is any position to call anyone's bluff? Bing better get ready to bend over and grab his ankles.

Silly rabbit...Trix is for kids.

Why would Ilitch need to hold anything over Bing's head? FoxTown was given to him on a silver platter. Perhaps you have been listening to Rush too much. Bend over and grab his ankles!!! What next? anal poisoning!!

[BrushStart]

bailey -

the wings are not going to the Palace for a decade. Maybe a couple of years, but I am not sure about that.

Ilitch has said he wants a new arena downtown. In fact, its the biggest reason he is buying the Pistons.

He has had conversations with the city and the county re: a new stadium. He has bought up enough land to build the stadium. Rumor has it, he has been shopping financing to Wall Street.

Motorcity Casino, Hockeytown Cafe, all of his parking lots, his investment in the Woodward light rail, his tenants at the Fox [[DaEduardo's and the new restuarant opening at the old Johhny Rocket's), even Comerica Park - would greatly benefit by having a new arena and both teams downtown. He will only threaten in order to get the most of the city and county. But, the teams aren't going anywhere. And I bet a new arena is shovel in the ground in under 2 years.

I am in total agreement with construction starting in under 2 years. Ilitch may think he will live forever, but he knows that he's old. Now that he's decided to do this, it's going to be pedal to the floor, even for the Ilitches who generally move slowly. There's no value in waiting. Ilitch didn't even want to pay the new lease on JLA this year. No way is he going to delay this any longer than necessary. The longer he waits, the less leverage he'll have. Remember, he's been planning this for almost a decade when he started buying up land behind Foxtown and in lower Midtown. This is the culmintation of all of it, and once the arena is built, the value of his other property in Detroit is going to skyrocket.

[esp1986]

I am in total agreement with construction starting in under 2 years. Ilitch may think he will live forever, but he knows that he's old. Now that he's decided to do this, it's going to be pedal to the floor, even for the Ilitches who generally move slowly. There's no value in waiting. Ilitch didn't even want to pay the new lease on JLA this year. No way is he going to delay this any longer than necessary. The longer he waits, the less leverage he'll have. Remember, he's been planning this for almost a decade when he started buying up land behind Foxtown and in lower Midtown. This is the culmintation of all of it, and once the arena is built, the value of his other property in Detroit is going to skyrocket.

I don't know about 'skyrocket,' but I hear you... the value will rise.

[401don]

There's no reason each team couldn't play about 10 games a year in each other's arena. This would have all kinds of advantages for combo ticket pkg's, etc. as well as attracting a new client base. You don't think a Wed. night Pistons game in February wouldn't draw more people if it was the only time the Pistons were downtown the whole month? It would also help prepare the Pistons base for the transition downtown.

[R8RBOB]

Just been reading comments on the Freep, Detroit News and ESPN. Most of the comments have been in favor of moving back to Detroit but there are those folks who frowning on the possibility of the Pistons leaving Auburn Hills. Truthfully, I would love the Pistons back in city limits because I remember how Davidson and Wilson believed that no one would come to Detroit to see the Pistons. The Pistons had their time in the suburbs but it's time to come home. They are the only team in the league that plays outside their city limits and hopefully that comes to an end.

[BrushStart]

I don't know about 'skyrocket,' but I hear you... the value will rise.

Oh, I just meant the property around the stadium, not all of his stuff!

I don't know what he paid for some of those lots, but they will likely go through the roof if they're across from a Wings/Stones stadium.