It begins in Tennessee.... Detroit after that?

[Whitehouse]

This is most disturbing in many ways. I picked this up from Littlegreenfootballs.

The conservative vision of utopia [[touted by many of the GOP
candidates in this election) is a society in which most government agencies are privatized, and unfettered free enterprise reigns supreme.
Here’s a look at what that vision means in the real world: Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down.

Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won’t respond, then watches it burn. That’s exactly what happened to a local family tonight. A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.
The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn’t do anything to stop his house from burning. Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay. The mayor said if homeowners don’t pay, they’re out of luck. […]

We're outraged inhere over the conduct of Assistant DA Shervill, but if this is going to be the policy of the DFD all hell is going to break loose. Lifes are in danger if the fire department will not act in a fire cause you didn't subscribe to them. What's the use of a fire insurance? If I was living there, my house caught fire and the fire department would extinguish the flames, I would sue them into oblivion.

It hans't come this way in Detroit. The DFD is still a force you can reckon on and admire. Let's hope it stays this way.

[Detroitnerd]

What are you talking about? You want fires put out for FREE? What a soaring sense of entitlement you have! We're just supposed to provide everybody with services regardless of how much money they contribute? That's preposterous ... it's, its ... **HEAD EXPLODES**

No doubt some nutballs on this forum would say as much...

[iheartthed]

Is that even legal? What would have happened if someone were trapped inside? Would the firefighters have stood by and let that person die?

[9mile&seneca]

Is that even legal? What would have happened if someone were trapped inside? Would the firefighters have stood by and let that person die?

I think that's why they were standing by, to make sure there was no loss of human life. Think of it as a "work slowdown". I subscribe to a private fire dept. My insurance would be astronomical if I let it lapse.

[chief1356]

No need to attack me, I was simply stating factors that may have gone into the decision making of the men on the scene rather than accuse them of lacking "integrity".

[justanotherboy]

"Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay."

The homeowner received exactly what he paid for. I don't feel sorry for him.

[Detroitnerd]

"Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay."

The homeowner received exactly what he paid for. I don't feel sorry for him.

Yeah, let's get rid of that "Government by the people, of the people and for the people" shit and turn government into a system where you pay private companies for everything and if you didn't read the fine print, then fuck you. Great idea. I think you should move there right away.

[Goose]

i guess they figured their home wasn't worth $75.... you can't buy auto insurance the day after you get in an accident.....

[iheartthed]

^Speaking of, I wonder what the insurance rates there are like.

[dtowncitylover]

I feel sorry that his house burned down, not sorry that the firefighters couldn't help. Those were the rules. However, it is a flawed system where a city or county can't provide the basics, like public safety, police, library, school, garbage, streetscape, etc for its citizens.

[lincoln8740]

Yeah, let's get rid of that "Government by the people, of the people and for the people" shit and turn government into a system where you pay private companies for everything and if you didn't read the fine print, then fuck you. Great idea. I think you should move there right away.

It would be worse if you paid taxes for years and then had to call the EMS for medical assistance and they didn't show.. that would never happen in a major American city

oh wait......

[Goose]

stop with the excuses...

fact is they were offered fire protection for the known area outside the cities coverage area for a very modest price of $75 and they declined....

you whiners are probably the same people that complain about health insurance being to expensive but are able to have the latest iphone and watch cable TV on a 60 inch LCD....

sometimes you have to pay to receive benefits, i know this is hard to grasp by you bleeding socialist at heart liberals, but services don't grow on trees, it cost MONEY

[Bearinabox]

sometimes you have to pay to receive benefits, i know this is hard to grasp by you bleeding socialist at heart liberals, but services don't grow on trees, it cost MONEY

This is exactly why fire protection should be funded through adequate taxes instead of optional user fees. I think the libertarian/teabagger types are the ones who have a problem understanding that services cost money.

[wolverine]

stop with the excuses...

fact is they were offered fire protection for the known area outside the cities coverage area for a very modest price of $75 and they declined....

you whiners are probably the same people that complain about health insurance being to expensive but are able to have the latest iphone and watch cable TV on a 60 inch LCD....

sometimes you have to pay to receive benefits, i know this is hard to grasp by you bleeding socialist at heart liberals, but services don't grow on trees, it cost MONEY

Nope, back in college I paid for health and insurance out of pocket AND the ipod with my job.... But I also pay my taxes, and deserve fire protection, and so does everyone else.

The only crap fire service I complain about is when a fire truck, ambulance, and cop car show up when someone passes out drunk at a bar, when simply an ambulance would suffice.

[Relayer76]

Yeah, let's get rid of that "Government by the people, of the people and for the people" shit and turn government into a system where you pay private companies for everything and if you didn't read the fine print, then fuck you. Great idea. I think you should move there right away.

I agree, justanotherboy should move there. I hope he moves in next door to someone who has not paid and if a fire starts in the neighbour's home, that it is a windy night blowing in the direction of justanotherboy's home.

[Bearinabox]

"Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay."

The homeowner received exactly what he paid for. I don't feel sorry for him.

The point isn't that the homeowner is free from fault. Okay, he was irresponsible and made a dumb choice, but right now his house is burning down, and you're sitting out front in a fire truck. Basic human decency dictates that you put his fucking house out and save the lecture for later. What's that you say? Nobody would pay for fire protection if the people who didn't pay got protection too? Well, that's kind of why most places don't run their fire departments this way. It's not a workable system.

Imagine if this happened in some inner-city neighborhood like Mexicantown with 30x100 lots and houses built out of matchwood, and the fire department only responded once the fire spread to neighboring properties whose owners had paid the fee. By then, the fire would be completely out of control, and the neighbors who did the responsible thing and paid the 75 bucks would stand a good chance of losing their houses because one guy in the middle of the block didn't pay. Now imagine that the homeowner who didn't pay lived outside the neighborhood, and his tenants lost their home because he cheaped out. This system creates a whole host of problems that could be solved by just raising taxes and creating a normal fire department like every civilized society on the face of the planet. I just don't get it.

[iheartthed]

The point isn't that the homeowner is free from fault. Okay, he was irresponsible and made a dumb choice, but right now his house is burning down, and you're sitting out front in a fire truck. Basic human decency dictates that you put his fucking house out and save the lecture for later. What's that you say? Nobody would pay for fire protection if the people who didn't pay got protection too? Well, that's kind of why most places don't run their fire departments this way. It's not a workable system.

I've heard of situations where the services were privatized and the resident didn't pay the fee. But the emergency services workers would still be required to provide help to the person, it's just that they would be slapped with a huge fine after the fact. That seems the most logical way to go. I can't believe it's even legal for the firefighters in this town to stand by and watch a family's house burn to the ground. That would seem to cost the township more than just putting the fire out...

[wolverine]

I can't imagine it being legal. It's the governments responsibility to protect the health and safety of its citizens. By definition, that goes beyond the damaged home but the property around it. If they let the house burn to the ground, they could have also allowed the fire to get out of control.

Paying or not paying the fee is completely out of the debate here. A government service failed to perform a duty that they are required to do. The emergency was delegated to this department to handle the situation regardless of where the resident lives as opposed to a countywide emergency response service. Slow response is one thing, showing up on site and not putting out a fire is completely different. Heck, they'd could bill the owners $75 later if they choose. This can't be right. I know people who live in unincorporated areas yet still receive service from nearby communities. They pay no fees yet still get coverage. The remainder of services are covered by the county. Or in some cases, I would guess that the county would reimburse the municipality for its services.


Oh wow:

The fire reportedly continued for hours “because garden hoses just wouldn’t put it out. It wasn’t until that fire spread to a neighbor' property , that anyone would respond” — only because the neighbor had paid the fee.

Still could have been worse.

[fryar]

The point isn't that the homeowner is free from fault. Okay, he was irresponsible and made a dumb choice, but right now his house is burning down, and you're sitting out front in a fire truck. Basic human decency dictates that you put his fucking house out and save the lecture for later. What's that you say? Nobody would pay for fire protection if the people who didn't pay got protection too? Well, that's kind of why most places don't run their fire departments this way. It's not a workable system.

Imagine if this happened in some inner-city neighborhood like Mexicantown with 30x100 lots and houses built out of matchwood, and the fire department only responded once the fire spread to neighboring properties whose owners had paid the fee. By then, the fire would be completely out of control, and the neighbors who did the responsible thing and paid the 75 bucks would stand a good chance of losing their houses because one guy in the middle of the block didn't pay. Now imagine that the homeowner who didn't pay lived outside the neighborhood, and his tenants lost their home because he cheaped out. This system creates a whole host of problems that could be solved by just raising taxes and creating a normal fire department like every civilized society on the face of the planet. I just don't get it.

Yep, all of that's exactly what happened. In the good old days. Before President Obama and his bleeding heart socialist at heart liberals forced all of us to buy into this government service, purportedly for our own benefit. Death and taxes, friends, death and taxes...tsk, tsk.

No, that really is what happened, back in the days of private firefighting. This approach of voluntarily buying into the city's service was bound to fail.

[gazhekwe]

Tennessee is one of those no tax states. See what you get when you don't want to pay for government services? Will we learn our lesson? Doubt it.

[gibran]

what about the values of to serve and protect..only if you got yours? how flawed is this..and it is the same folks that enspouse this logic that complain or hide behind the morals platform...Their battle cry of time to take back our country...from whom? The greed of corporations...I hope.

you can't stand behind a morals platform and then act immorally.

[jiminnm]

I have relatives that live in the city of South Fulton and checked into this.

It seems that Mr. Cranick lives outside the city of South Fulton in a nonincorporated area. The city of South Fulton offers the $75 service to those who live outside the city and would otherwise have no fire service. Cranick apparently elected not to pay and the city is not required to provides city services to those outside the city.

[Gannon]

I have relatives that live in the city of South Fulton and checked into this.

It seems that Mr. Cranick lives outside the city of South Fulton in a nonincorporated area. The city of South Fulton offers the $75 service to those who live outside the city and would otherwise have no fire service. Cranick apparently elected not to pay and the city is not required to provides city services to those outside the city.

Then they shouldn't even have driven OUT there. By wasting resources paid for BY subscribers and incorporated taxpayers, they put themselves in the position of being liable for any problems due this fire.


If a doctor fails to respond to an evident emergency which they could have otherwise helped because of training and expertise...isn't he or she going against their Hippocratic Oath? One would think professional and volunteer firefighters would have the same ethical insistence they help, if they have their equipment at the ready.


This rings of the old system, where many independent fire companies would race to fires and extort money from the landowner before taking out ONE bucket.

[Hermod]

Here is how it sounds to me.

1. The city of South Fulton has established a municipal government which provides taxpayer based services to its residents.

2. The surrounding county is quite rural and has not established a fire department.

3. In such cases, there is often a volunteer fire and EMS service recognized by the county which is supported totally by volunteer services [[we are having a car wash to buy a new fie truck) or supported by a mix of county taxes and volunteer services [[county buys the equipment and pays for the fire chief and rest of labor is volunteer).

4. In this case, the county government has chosen to arrange fire services from South Fulton. This can be done in one of two ways: county pays SF using tax money or county arranges to allow home owners to purchase these services.

5. Rather than billing [[and trying to collect after a fire), SF has decided to "tax" county homeowners for the services.

We need to look at this case as county residents saying, "We don't want to be taxed enough to provide our own fire department or to buy fire services from SF. Everybody in the county is on their own and may purchase services from SF if they so wish."

I would say that in this case, the "evil" is with the county [[and its residents) and not the city of South Fulton.

[chief1356]

how many homeowners decided to pay the city of south fulton for protection the day after?
other considerations; why didn't homeowners start a volunteer department? should the residents of south fulton be the only people to pay for a fire dept. when it also protects non-residents?