This stinks. Dual wages.

[MizMotown]

United we stand. Divided we fall.

we're falling fast folks!!!!

I desire for you health, happines, and success. I desire for you love, peace, and joy, AND ABUNDANCE. I wouldn't wish LESS for anyone!

[MizMotown]

and kindly please explain all the difference between the "uneducated" line worker and the sap savvy educated tech exec who pushes violent video games for a living etc...

who's the really contributors to society? i bet most are paid the least!!

[Detroitnerd]

Wages, schmages. They should be happy to get $5 an hour period in this economy. We simply cannot keep rewarding hardworking people trying to support their families. The rewards of this society belong to the people who own it, especially the bankers and the super-rich. If they wanted to have a better standard of living, these "workers" would have had the good sense to be born rich.

[MizMotown]

I completely agree Detroit Nerd.... and if they can't support their families on that $5.00 an hour IF they are lucky to get even that, there is always the option of taking your chances to sell crack and whatnot. The benefits suck but you don't pay taxes if you can stay alive or out of prison.

[MizMotown]

oh yea and Detroit Nerd... maybe these folks should just stop having families period. Yanno the American Dream is over why even create more. They are just hogging all the food and oil anyway. Birth control in the water!!!

[bailey]

oh yea and Detroit Nerd... maybe these folks should just stop having families period. Yanno the American Dream is over why even create more. They are just hogging all the food and oil anyway. Birth control in the water!!!

Godamn right! I, by virtue of being born in Michigan in the good ole U.S and A, have a RIGHT to at least 50k in salary. A RIGHT to have at least a small hunting cabin up north. A RIGHT to as many cars as there are drivers in my house...plus a 1970s muscle car for Dream Cruise. A RIGHT to a at least a 25 ft Scaarab to get to Jobbie nooner. A RIGHT to have a wage that will support as many kids as my wife's uterus will allow. and a A RIGHT to full salary pension beginning at age 55 to allow for me to spend the next 30 years of my life on vacation. These RIGHTS are mine and are owed to me regardless of skill or education level. ANYTHING LESS IS UN-AMERICAN

[MizMotown]

NOW your being a little unrealistic! Just because you bought your liberal arts degree does not automatically make you skilled contributor of society. There is really no such thing as an equal opportunity.

[bailey]

NOW your being a little unrealistic! Just because you bought your liberal arts degree does not automatically make you skilled contributor of society. There is really no such thing as an equal opportunity.

You're right, it doesn't. Which is why you see a lot of unemployed and unemployable college grads that did easy majors and came out with worthless degrees. The world doesn't owe you a living. It's too bad it took this area 45 years to figure that out.

[Detroitnerd]

Godamn right! I, by virtue of being born in Michigan in the good ole U.S and A, have a RIGHT to at least 50k in salary. A RIGHT to have at least a small hunting cabin up north. A RIGHT to as many cars as there are drivers in my house...plus a 1970s muscle car for Dream Cruise. A RIGHT to a at least a 25 ft Scaarab to get to Jobbie nooner. A RIGHT to have a wage that will support as many kids as my wife's uterus will allow. and a A RIGHT to full salary pension beginning at age 55 to allow for me to spend the next 30 years of my life on vacation. These RIGHTS are mine and are owed to me regardless of skill or education level. ANYTHING LESS IS UN-AMERICAN

WHOOOOAAA, MAN! Did you see him rip apart that STRAW MAN? He must have some POWERFUL ARGUMENTS to tear that guy apart in such short order!

[Meddle]

it's just more amazing to me how many of you seem to WANT to see less wages and benefits for folks. Your the sheeple the goverments love. Happy for your fellow American and brother to settle far beneath what they worth as a worker and contributor to making the small percentage of the others very, very rich.

Less is better than nothing.

[1KielsonDrive]

United we stand. Divided we fall.

we're falling fast folks!!!!

I desire for you health, happines, and success. I desire for you love, peace, and joy, AND ABUNDANCE. I wouldn't wish LESS for anyone!

Thank you. That's what we should all desire for our fellow humans. The system is rigged now to promote competition to the bottom. Get mad at someone who still has medical coverage, still has vacation pay, still has family leave, etc, etc. As the elites push our entire society downwards, we find ourselves fighting each other. Often those who have jobs deride those who don't for being lazy, slackers, etc. If our society was truly a shared, democratic venture, we would empathize and support. I don't care if an auto worker makes $100,00.00 per year. More power to them. I do care if a million-billionaire makes their fortune without paying their fair share. The bottom line is fair share. As long as we have a two party [[I think it's actually a one party system), political system, competing for the same corporate dollars, we'll keep getting what we have now.

[1KielsonDrive]

Godamn right! I, by virtue of being born in Michigan in the good ole U.S and A, have a RIGHT to at least 50k in salary. A RIGHT to have at least a small hunting cabin up north. A RIGHT to as many cars as there are drivers in my house...plus a 1970s muscle car for Dream Cruise. A RIGHT to a at least a 25 ft Scaarab to get to Jobbie nooner. A RIGHT to have a wage that will support as many kids as my wife's uterus will allow. and a A RIGHT to full salary pension beginning at age 55 to allow for me to spend the next 30 years of my life on vacation. These RIGHTS are mine and are owed to me regardless of skill or education level. ANYTHING LESS IS UN-AMERICAN

A SLIGHTLY over stated, obnoxious, sarcastic, response filled with JUST a little bit of vitriol and disdain for hard working citizens. Face it, you just don't like hard working people who may have acquired as much, or more, in life than you. Rather than recognizing and lauding their efforts, you like to convict them. Possibly of being un-american. "How terrible, you own a boat. And two cars. And a cottage".What exactly is the American Dream to you? "My god, your kids have even gone to college".

[1KielsonDrive]

Less is better than nothing.

That's probably the nicest, or, should I say, the least inflammatory argument you've made for people being stripped of their ability to make a living.

[MizMotown]

Less is better than nothing.

If that's what you settle for, that's what you get. Majority rules I guess. And that's what's wrong in the world.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

it's just more amazing to me how many of you seem to WANT to see less wages and benefits for folks. Your the sheeple the goverments love. Happy for your fellow American and brother to settle far beneath what they worth as a worker and contributor to making the small percentage of the others very, very rich.

I agree with you totally. It seems most on here are defending CEO's bringing home million dollar salaries, which they receive whether the company is profitable or not, while the rest of us try to get by on 50k per year. Yet, on the other hand , it's repulsive that someone on the line makes 30.00 per hr turning screws,or loading a machine. Unbelievable..

[Detroitej72]

In 2007, it was reported that GM spent $1,635 per vehicle on health care for active and retired workers in the U.S. Toyota paid nothing for retired workers - it has very few - and only $215 for active ones.

You just made a great argument for a single payer health care system.

[MizMotown]

Thank you. That's what we should all desire for our fellow humans. The system is rigged now to promote competition to the bottom. Get mad at someone who still has medical coverage, still has vacation pay, still has family leave, etc, etc. As the elites push our entire society downwards, we find ourselves fighting each other. Often those who have jobs deride those who don't for being lazy, slackers, etc. If our society was truly a shared, democratic venture, we would empathize and support. I don't care if an auto worker makes $100,00.00 per year. More power to them. I do care if a million-billionaire makes their fortune without paying their fair share. The bottom line is fair share. As long as we have a two party [[I think it's actually a one party system), political system, competing for the same corporate dollars, we'll keep getting what we have now.

Amen. You said it all. Everything that this society is letting happen to itself. There is a huge price to pay for this and it's only just begun. There are HUMBLE folks out there who have earned there millions and worked their butts off to do so and kudos to them for do what they contribute society. But there also alot of ARROGANT folks out there that is creating the world you have just described.

[MizMotown]

It seems most on here are defending CEO's bringing home million dollar salaries, which they receive whether the company is profitable or not, while the rest of us try to get by on 50k per year. Yet, on the other hand , it's repulsive that someone on the line makes 30.00 per hr turning screws,or loading a machine

I feel the same way about football, golf, and baseball players. Oh yea, and Britney Spears. :-)

[Detroitej72]

I agree with you totally. It seems most on here are defending CEO's bringing home million dollar salaries, which they receive whether the company is profitable or not, while the rest of us try to get by on 50k per year. Yet, on the other hand , it's repulsive that someone on the line makes 30.00 per hr turning screws,or loading a machine. Unbelievable..

These people think because somebody is a CEO, or born into the privileged class, they are better than the bum who works on the assembly line. That's why cons are fighting so hard for Paris Hilton to get a tax cut.

[Hermod]

it's just more amazing to me how many of you seem to WANT to see less wages and benefits for folks. Your the sheeple the goverments love. Happy for your fellow American and brother to settle far beneath what they worth as a worker and contributor to making the small percentage of the others very, very rich.

What is a worker "worth"?

[MizMotown]

I guess what we are told we are worth. For alot of folks, i'd say just above $7.45 an hour. I guess it depends on the owner of the company to make that decision. I'm sure in a perfect Amercia most of us would be worth about $2.00 a day and no benefits.

[Mikeg]

You just made a great argument for a single payer health care system.

That depends on whether it truly reduces costs and improves the general health of all. Just because an employer-based health insurance system puts companies with an older workforce at a competitive disadvantage doesn't mean that it should be scrapped in favor of a completely different system.

[bailey]

A SLIGHTLY over stated, obnoxious, sarcastic, response filled with JUST a little bit of vitriol and disdain for hard working citizens. Face it, you just don't like hard working people who may have acquired as much, or more, in life than you. Rather than recognizing and lauding their efforts, you like to convict them. Possibly of being un-american. "How terrible, you own a boat. And two cars. And a cottage".What exactly is the American Dream to you? "My god, your kids have even gone to college".

Huh? The point of the sarcasm in my post is that hard work brings those things, they are NOT rights. Many here believe them to be a birthright and earned after completing the most minimal of education allowed by law and possessing only the most basic skills.

[Russix]

$16 / hr? That's a $2.13/hr raise over 96 years.
These companies have weather many storms due to a tenacious customer loyalty from their employees. It's really not a big surprise that when you starting cutting domestic wages and shipping jobs overseas that your profit margin sinks into a hole.

[jiminnm]

mikeg, your comments are correct. I'll add a couple of items.

First, any unexercised stock options given to GM execs went to zero value and disappeared when GM filed chapter 11. This would be also be true for any stock held by those execs [[or anyone else). This would happen with any company.

Second, folks seem to have a far too simple view of compensation. They do not seem to understand that stock options, restricted stock, and other noncash compensation are what makes up the bulk of exec compensation. These items do not take cash out of the company, increase corporate expenses or otherwise reduce compensation available for other employees [[or, as in GM's case, raise the cost of vehicles). What does occur is that the equity of existing shareholders is diminished. It is the other shareholders that should be upset about large stock grants to execs.