Most Americans Want Wealth Redistribution

[Papasito]

If the true goal is to steer corporations toward the greater good of society and the environment, we are failing by letting corporations move to China instead of keeping them here. Because in China they are allowed to run rampant, little to no environmental regulations, little value on humanity, and little to no restrictions. If we could keep them here under our Government's umbrella of agencies, at least we as a society would know that humanity is globally a little better off.

[ghettopalmetto]

The maps that lilpup posted are interesting. I see that, with the exception of Michigan, the states with the highest poverty rates are all states that have low taxes, few public services, and tend to vote Republican.

The states with the highest median incomes are the "high-tax job-killing" states.

Yet people buy into the GOP bullshit about "low taxes" and "limited [[read: barely existent) government" being necessary for economic growth. You tell me--is that what the maps are showing???

[maxx]

And I love how left-wing extremists always blame the "evil" corporations for all of their and the world's problems.

Corporations provide jobs. Do you honestly think the small mom and pop businesses can provide enough jobs for the masses.

If not for one of those awful corporations you would not be able to go online to forums like this and spew your nonsense.

And as long as you see corporations as only beneficial to working people, you will have no interest in regulating them.

[justanotherboy]

I think people like Maxx should work harder and pay more in taxes so Obama can provide my family with free health care, free college education and help with my mortgage payment.

[ghettopalmetto]

I think people like Maxx should work harder and pay more in taxes so Obama can provide my family with free health care, free college education and help with my mortgage payment.

Oh, silly boy, equating "income" with "hard work".

[gdogslim]

Most Americans want to keep what they earn and not have it taken away to be given to people who want others to pay for what they want.
You don't have to do business with a corporation, [[for the most part)
You do not have a choice when the IRS army comes knocking on your door looking for a handout to spread around.

Huff n' Puff is a far left wing socialist who most Americans think is a joke.

[Bearinabox]

Most Americans want to keep what they earn and not have it taken away to be given to people who want others to pay for what they want.
You don't have to do business with a corporation, [[for the most part)
You do not have a choice when the IRS army comes knocking on your door looking for a handout to spread around.

Huff n' Puff is a far left wing socialist who most Americans think is a joke.

Can you please explain your survey methodology? How did you choose your sample? What were the questions you asked? Did you get it published?

[Papasito]

Big Government pensions, catering to unions, handouts, out of control spending and free health care...
Here is a glimpse into the future of America if we continue to make the mistake of "wanting to be more like Europe".....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39416365...ld_news-europe

Greek doctors and railway employees walked out, Spanish workers shut down trains and buses, and one man even blocked the Irish parliament with a cement truck as anti-austerity protests erupted across Europe Wednesday.
Tens of thousands of demonstrators poured into Brussels, hoping to swell into a 100,000-strong march on European Union institutions later in the day and reinforce the impact of Spain's first nationwide strike in eight years.
All the actions sought to protest the budget-slashing, tax-hiking, pension-cutting austerity plans of European governments seeking to control their debt.

[ghettopalmetto]

I think what Papasito is trying to say is "Europe = socialist = bad" so we don't dare be like Europe. Never mind Papasito never presents any sort of metric for his claims [[At what point, pray tell, does spending become "out-of-control"?).

Well, for you folks who think we live in some sort of meritocracy where "handouts" are evil, think again. "Socialist" France, Germany, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are all more upwardly mobile than the alleged "meritocracy" of the United States.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/e..._have_less_upw

In other words, you had better be smart enough to be born into a wealthy family if you're American.

Funny enough, though, as much as Papasito bemoans forced austerity measures in European nations, he advocates the same austerity measures for the United States. Care to reconcile your inconsistent logic, Papsito?

[DC48080]

Oh, silly boy, equating "income" with "hard work".

This is evident in the case of many union people who receive great incomes and do very little work to earn them. Look at the featherbedding of jobs that has been a union tradition for years.

Look at those Chrysler workers that were exposed last week.

Hard work, drive, determination, looking for opportunities to advance yourself and your job will more often than not lead to better income.

Sitting around and whining about how some folks have more than you and practicing class envy will get you nowhere.

[Jimaz]

This is evident in the case of many union people who receive great incomes and do very little work to earn them....

Sitting around and whining about how some folks have more than you and practicing class envy will get you nowhere.

Please. Take your own advice.

[ghettopalmetto]

This is evident in the case of many union people who receive great incomes and do very little work to earn them. Look at the featherbedding of jobs that has been a union tradition for years.

Look at those Chrysler workers that were exposed last week.

Hard work, drive, determination, looking for opportunities to advance yourself and your job will more often than not lead to better income.

Sitting around and whining about how some folks have more than you and practicing class envy will get you nowhere.

Do yourself a favor. Go to Ann Arbor, find a student with a trust fund, and tell me that kid works harder than a migrant farm worker.

You're so full of shit you can't even smell it.

Nobody's whining here. We're just tired of being forced to suck the cocks of the rich and wealthy, and have intellectually lazy, disingenous pricks tell us that we're inferior to them when we work FAR HARDER than the people who depend on capital gains for their income.

[DC48080]

I think what Papasito is trying to say is "Europe = socialist = bad" so we don't dare be like Europe. Never mind Papasito never presents any sort of metric for his claims [[At what point, pray tell, does spending become "out-of-control"?).

Well, for you folks who think we live in some sort of meritocracy where "handouts" are evil, think again. "Socialist" France, Germany, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are all more upwardly mobile than the alleged "meritocracy" of the United States.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/e..._have_less_upw

In other words, you had better be smart enough to be born into a wealthy family if you're American.

Funny enough, though, as much as Papasito bemoans forced austerity measures in European nations, he advocates the same austerity measures for the United States. Care to reconcile your inconsistent logic, Papsito?

So of course you post a link to a liberal website. Look at the title at the top of the page you posted: The American Prospect Liberal Intelligence.

Then you state that one must be born into a wealthy family if you're American. What is that supposed to mean? I was born into a family that struggled greatly financially. We never had much in the way of meterial things growing up, never took a vacation, never had a new car. Not that one needs those things to be happy, but I point it out to show that you don't have to be born wealthy to succeed.

I worked hard since I was 12 doing various after-school and summer jobs. I put myself through college and graduate school by working hard. When out of school I took lower jobs and applied myself to learning all facets of the business for which I work. I was always looking for ways to learn more and take on new responsibilities at work. My job position and income steadily rose due to drive, desire, and determination. I never asked for anything which I did not earn. My grades were lousy in school. When I got to college and found myself paying for it I decided to buckle down. If I can do it just about anybody can.

I wholeheartedly reject the notion that one must have an "in" with someone to succeed.

[DC48080]

You're so full of shit you can't even smell it.

Nobody's whining here. We're just tired of being forced to suck the cocks of the rich and wealthy, and have intellectually lazy, disingenous pricks tell us that we're inferior to them when we work FAR HARDER than the people who depend on capital gains for their income.

How typically crude of you. And how very ignorant of you to assume that the only way to become wealthy or to remain wealthy is to rely on capital gains for income.

And by the way, I don't recall anyone saying you are inferior to anybody.

If you equate working hard with working with your hands I don't know how to even begin to explain to you that some people work very hard without using wrenches and other tools or operating heavy machinery. Hard work takes many forms. I know, I have done both kinds.

But I have to go now. Time to head back to the office. My lunch break is over. And I did not consume any alcohol or drugs during my lunch break.

[ghettopalmetto]

So of course you post a link to a liberal website. Look at the title at the top of the page you posted: The American Prospect Liberal Intelligence.

Mr. Ezra Klein is a respected journalist who writes on economics for the Washington Post. Never mind, that, however, as the data was generated by the BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, a NON-PARTISAN think tank. Now, do you care to refute the data from Brookings, or are you going to continue pissing your diaper because you saw the word "liberal"?

Then you state that one must be born into a wealthy family if you're American. What is that supposed to mean? I was born into a family that struggled greatly financially. We never had much in the way of meterial things growing up, never took a vacation, never had a new car. Not that one needs those things to be happy, but I point it out to show that you don't have to be born wealthy to succeed.

I worked hard since I was 12 doing various after-school and summer jobs. I put myself through college and graduate school by working hard. When out of school I took lower jobs and applied myself to learning all facets of the business for which I work. I was always looking for ways to learn more and take on new responsibilities at work. My job position and income steadily rose due to drive, desire, and determination. I never asked for anything which I did not earn. My grades were lousy in school. When I got to college and found myself paying for it I decided to buckle down. If I can do it just about anybody can.

I wholeheartedly reject the notion that one must have an "in" with someone to succeed.

It depends on what your definition of "success" is. I personally bust my ass and take advantage of every opportunty available to me. The reward for our hard work and sacrifice should be ensuring stability and opportunty for those who follow us, not handing Lindsay Lohan a tax break to shove more cocaine up her nose.

[partyhardy]

So of course you post a link to a liberal website. Look at the title at the top of the page you posted: The American Prospect Liberal Intelligence.

Then you state that one must be born into a wealthy family if you're American. What is that supposed to mean? I was born into a family that struggled greatly financially. We never had much in the way of meterial things growing up, never took a vacation, never had a new car. Not that one needs those things to be happy, but I point it out to show that you don't have to be born wealthy to succeed.

I worked hard since I was 12 doing various after-school and summer jobs. I put myself through college and graduate school by working hard. When out of school I took lower jobs and applied myself to learning all facets of the business for which I work. I was always looking for ways to learn more and take on new responsibilities at work. My job position and income steadily rose due to drive, desire, and determination. I never asked for anything which I did not earn. My grades were lousy in school. When I got to college and found myself paying for it I decided to buckle down. If I can do it just about anybody can.

I wholeheartedly reject the notion that one must have an "in" with someone to succeed.

Yeah, try doing what you did back then again today. The younger generations have a way more difficult time nowadays just to get established. Everything is way more expensive, and it's pretty much impossible to work and pay for college nowadays without either taking a loan or getting help from parents. Besides that jobs come few and far between, and even college isn't a guarantee for a job. There are plenty of people who would love to work hard, but don't have the chance because the system that's been put in place makes it ever so difficult to get by. If you think I'm wrong, try becoming 18 again. Then you'll see why it's way easier to be born to a wealthy family.

[ghettopalmetto]

How typically crude of you. And how very ignorant of you to assume that the only way to become wealthy or to remain wealthy is to rely on capital gains for income.

And by the way, I don't recall anyone saying you are inferior to anybody.

I'm not the person who consistently advocates a government that only works for the wealthiest 5% of us. So maybe you'd like to introduce a bit of consistency into your ideology.

[DC48080]

It depends on what your definition of "success" is. I personally bust my ass and take advantage of every opportunty available to me. The reward for our hard work and sacrifice should be ensuring stability and opportunty for those who follow us, not handing Lindsay Lohan a tax break to shove more cocaine up her nose.

Success is indeed a relative term. To me it means: being happy in your career and in your life, having a loving family, to be able to raise your children with good values and see that they receive an excellent education, being able to provide a comfortable life for your family, to not be in debt up to your eyeballs, to be able to provide for a comfortable retirement, to be able to weather the downturns that inevitably come in life.

There are some who will measure success by no other factor than money. I am not one of them. There are plenty of people out there with far more than me. There always will be and I can accept that and not damn them for being more successful [[if you measure success by money alone) than I am.

You seem like a profoundly unhappy and bitter person. I feel a bit sorry for you and hope that at some point you can reconcile the successes in your life and find a modicum of happiness.

[DC48080]

Yeah, try doing what you did back then again today. The younger generations have a way more difficult time nowadays just to get established. Everything is way more expensive, and it's pretty much impossible to work and pay for college nowadays without either taking a loan or getting help from parents. Besides that jobs come few and far between, and even college isn't a guarantee for a job. There are plenty of people who would love to work hard, but don't have the chance because the system that's been put in place makes it ever so difficult to get by. If you think I'm wrong, try becoming 18 again. Then you'll see why it's way easier to be born to a wealthy family.

And things were more expensive for me than they were for my parents. Things were more expensive for my parents than for my grandparents. They will be more expensive for my children than they were for me. That is how the world works. When I was 18 the minimum wage was something like $3.00 per hour. I worked a minumum wage job and did other jobs on the side. Financial aid and student loans were not as available then as they are now. Somehow though, future generations will endure as we endured and previous generations endured.

Nobody ever got by on slacking off, waiting for a handout, and crying if one doesn't come. Hard work is the key. And I don't mean hardwork strictly in the physical sense.

[ghettopalmetto]

Success is indeed a relative term. To me it means: being happy in your career and in your life, having a loving family, to be able to raise your children with good values and see that they receive an excellent education, being able to provide a comfortable life for your family, to not be in debt up to your eyeballs, to be able to provide for a comfortable retirement, to be able to weather the downturns that inevitably come in life.

There are some who will measure success by no other factor than money. I am not one of them. There are plenty of people out there with far more than me. There always will be and I can accept that and not damn them for being more successful [[if you measure success by money alone) than I am.

There is an ENORMOUS difference between what you describe, and gutting the entire social safety net for the 90% of us who need it, just so the people who already have plenty of money can have even more of it.

[DC48080]

There is an ENORMOUS difference between what you describe, and gutting the entire social safety net for the 90% of us who need it, just so the people who already have plenty of money can have even more of it.

What "safety net" are you talking about? This thread is about redistribution of wealth. Do you believe that money earned by other people should be a safety net for you?

[ghettopalmetto]

What "safety net" are you talking about? This thread is about redistribution of wealth. Do you believe that money earned by other people should be a safety net for you?

I'm not interested in "getting other peoples' money". I make my own, thank you.

I am interested, however, in each of us addressing the responsibility that we all have to our nation. That means paying taxes necessary to preserve our stable republican government and financial sector. Those of us who have benefitted the most have a greater responsibility so that we might create and preserve opportunities for others to achieve the same success.

Just because someone makes less money than me doesn't mean I don't have a stake in his well-being and that of his family--that person could be a colleague, a customer, a neighbor, a friend, or family member. My success does not come at the expense of others, but if I can help the next guy become successful as well, we are both more prosperous.

And yes, I am wholeheartedly against redistribution of wealth. Ever since Reagan took office, the working and middle classes have been getting financially exploited by our government and corporations so that the Chosen Few at the top might enjoy larger tax cuts. It's time for this shit to stop, so we can pretend that we have some modicum of a democratic republic.

[partyhardy]

And things were more expensive for me than they were for my parents. Things were more expensive for my parents than for my grandparents. They will be more expensive for my children than they were for me. That is how the world works. When I was 18 the minimum wage was something like $3.00 per hour. I worked a minumum wage job and did other jobs on the side. Financial aid and student loans were not as available then as they are now. Somehow though, future generations will endure as we endured and previous generations endured.

Nobody ever got by on slacking off, waiting for a handout, and crying if one doesn't come. Hard work is the key. And I don't mean hardwork strictly in the physical sense.

Things aren't just more expensive, they're EXTREMELY MORE expensive. And you and your grandparents didn't need to get a college education in order to get a job. And even then jobs were plentiful. Now people fight in order to get a job as a waiter as a restaurant. And sure financial aid is available if you fit their equation, and student loans are available if you're willing to sell your soul to the devil.

No one is "wanting a handout." There are plenty of hard working people who lost their job through no fault of their own. They want a chance, not a handout. But the system sets to exploit the middle and lower classes from the upper classes [[notice how there are soooo many schools open now?) If you can't see this, you are either blind, or you need to become 18 again. The younger generation is probably going to do worse than the older generation. That doesn't necessarily fit in your plan, does it? But it's happening:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...s-of-2010.aspx

"What's a tea bagger? Someone whose job hasn't been outsourced yet!"

[DC48080]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...s-of-2010.aspx

That article that you linked to was very interesting, although probably not from the viewpoint that you took of it.

It starts off with a tale of how the author's son's friend attended [[note it didn't say graduated) an ivy league school studying drama and music and was now living at home bemoaning the fact that he cannot find a decent job. How in the heck does anyone expect to be qualified for a good paying job by studying drama and music?

The article also mentions that this situation we are in today is only temporary. There are always going to be ups and downs in life. Many 18 year olds today cannot see past the present moment and are incapable of thinking about much less planning for the future.

The reality is that nobody is going to hand anybody anything. To advance in a career you have to work hard, show a willingness to do more than just what the job description entails, don't show up to work at 1 minute to 9:00, don't race to be the first one out the door at 5:00, work through lunch if there is work to do, don't waste time during the workday text messaging friends, going on Facebook or even DetroitYes.

In other words, make yourself more valuable to your employer instead of being just another worker who only does the minimun in order to earn a paycheck. Bosses will see these things and reward those who show these traits when advancements are available.

[ghettopalmetto]

The reality is that nobody is going to hand anybody anything. To advance in a career you have to work hard, show a willingness to do more than just what the job description entails, don't show up to work at 1 minute to 9:00, don't race to be the first one out the door at 5:00, work through lunch if there is work to do, don't waste time during the workday text messaging friends, going on Facebook or even DetroitYes.

That's not necessarily true. We peons have been excitedly handing enormous tax cuts to the wealthy for 30 years, HOPING that they'll create a couple jobs and maybe throw some crumbs our way [[out of the goodness of their hearts, no less). All just as a way of saying "Thanks for being rich."

How has that worked out??? Jobs going to China, real incomes falling, income disparity growing, our infrastructure falling apart, education becoming more-and-more out-of-reach for the common man. Yup, just keep whoring your ass to the wealthy. It doesn't matter how timely you are with punching a clock, or what you do when you're on the clock, if you end up giving the farm to your Corporate Masters anyway.

But hey, you're certainly making a lot of snap judgments about others, aren't you DC48080? We're all just lazy pieces of shit compared to you, aren't we?