Most Americans Want Wealth Redistribution

[maxx]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_736132.html
"...
The report [[pdf) "Building a Better America -- One Wealth Quintile At A Time" by Dan Ariely of Duke University and Michael I. Norton of Harvard Business School [[hat tip to Paul Kedrosky), shows that across ideological, economic and gender groups, Americans thought the richest 20 percent of our society controlled about 59 percent of the wealth, while the real number was closer to 84 percent.
More interesting than that, the report says, is that the respondents [[a randomly selected 5,522-person sample, reflecting the country's ideological, economic and gender demographics, surveyed in December 2005) believed the top 20 percent should own only 32 percent of the wealth. Respondents with incomes over $100,000 per year had similar answers to those making less then $50,000..."

[gibran]

maybe not as much as wealth redistibutation, but opportunity that is equal and just... that resources are palced where they can do the most good and work to see the value of all equally...not just those who agree with us... remember 9 billion in aid to a foriegn government would buy a lot of qualified teachers and mentors....as well as helping our children in the meantime.

[Zacha341]

Correction........ SOME Americans want to redistribute 'someone' elses wealth!

Ala your politician and or government promoting the idea that some simply have too much, OR the thief thru your window.

The result is the same.

[maxx]

maybe not as much as wealth redistibutation, but opportunity that is equal and just..

How about an elections system free from the corrupting influence of Big Money?

that resources are palced where they can do the most good and work to see the value of all equally...not just those who agree with us... remember 9 billion in aid to a foreign government would buy a lot of qualified teachers and mentors....as well as helping our children in the meantime.

The U.S. government is positively stingy in the percentage of GDP that goes to foreign aid. I'd use another word, but some people would consider it a racial slur.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...to-foreign-aid

[blackmath]

How about an elections system free from the corrupting influence of Big Money?

I whole heartedly agree with the above statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

If only this great man had lived longer... Imagine what this country would be like if today that were enacted in 1944?

[Mikeg]

Anyone who is making over a million a year did not "earn" it. That kind of wealth is made on the backs of working people and above a certain amount should be taxed and redistributed.

Why did you arbitrarily pick $1 million? What criteria did you use to determine whether they really earned it? What is your definition of "working people" and how does that fit into your apparent belief that employment is a "zero sum game"?

More importantly, do you believe that politicians should be allowed to answer those questions for us all? If so, please tell me where in the United States Constitution it says that we, the people, have given Congress the powers to limit personal income and/or the accumulation of wealth.

[Relayer76]

Why did you arbitrarily pick $1 million? What criteria did you use to determine whether they really earned it? What is your definition of "working people" and how does that fit into your apparent belief that employment is a "zero sum game"?

More importantly, do you believe that politicians should be allowed to answer those questions for us all? If so, please tell me where in the United States Constitution it says that we, the people, have given Congress the powers to limit personal income and/or the accumulation of wealth.

I just picked $1 million arbitrarily. The amount would have to be determined by social debate. I thought the US was a democracy, hence politicians do not decide, the people do through the politicians that they democratically elect.

What criteria did I use to determine whether they really earned it. - common sense. Although there is a need for incentives in a society and although some people are more hardworking, more educated or just plain smarter than others, we have to get over the idea that some should work 2 jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and others are so productive that they deserve 10 million a year. I repeat, someone making 1 million annually [[or maybe it is 2 million) did not "earn" all that money. Some of it should be given to employees in the form of raises, some should be payed in taxes to help build the roads that service his business, schools that educate people needed for the workforce, hospitals that keep them healthy, etc.

Please note that you have to make a distinction between what the individual earned and what his company earned. A company can make 10 million a year but the individual running might choose to take a salary of only 1 million and re- invest the rest to expand the business and create jobs. The other 9 million would not count as income.

[Zacha341]

Yes, that is ideal. The only problem is that you have those who do little who want the that which they don't even attempt to earn. Standard example: teens who want a new expensive car, failing to understand that you get that thru effort and ascension not just because you WANT IT... Too many adults think this way... robbers, thieves, swindlers etc. The politic of it just fires their already poised justification... Sadly, we live in a quick-gratification world so those that do not easily can ascribe to the politic of taking someone else's hard earn wealth...

maybe not as much as wealth redistibutation, but opportunity that is equal and just... that resources are palced where they can do the most good and work to see the value of all equally...not just those who agree with us... remember 9 billion in aid to a foriegn government would buy a lot of qualified teachers and mentors....as well as helping our children in the meantime.

[jt1]

Yes, that is ideal. The only problem is that you have those who do little who want the that which they don't even attempt to earn. Standard example: teens who want a new expensive car, failing to understand that you get that thru effort and ascension not just because you WANT IT... Too many adults think this way... robbers, thieves, swindlers etc. The politic of it just fires their already poised justification... Sadly, we live in a quick-gratification world so those that do not easily can ascribe to the politic of taking someone else's hard earn wealth...

I think there is a difference between material items and opportunity. Nobody deserves free things like cars but every chil deserves access to education that supplies them opportunity. Everybody [[IMO) deserves the opportunity to have access to health care.

I don't advocate giving anything to anyone. I do advocate ensuring that everyone have equitable opportunity to apply themselves and achieve or live without the fair of a health condition driving them into poverty

[Zacha341]

Works for me... I'm all for equal opportunity.

I think there is a difference between material items and opportunity. Nobody deserves free things like cars but every chil deserves access to education that supplies them opportunity. Everybody [[IMO) deserves the opportunity to have access to health care.

I don't advocate giving anything to anyone. I do advocate ensuring that everyone have equitable opportunity to apply themselves and achieve or live without the fair of a health condition driving them into poverty

[GOAT]

Oh yes people want wealth redistribution but not if it their money that is being re-distributed.

[Zacha341]

Yep! And the politicians motivated to secure partisan loyalty love to 'PIMP' that concept knowing full and well that they will be EXEMPT from any 'redistribution's' [[dem or repub)!!

Oh yes people want wealth redistribution but not if it their money that is being re-distributed.

[jt1]

Oh yes people want wealth redistribution but not if it their money that is being re-distributed.

Not necessarily true. I earn in the top X% and would be fine paying more taxes to support health care for all, equality in educational opportunities, etc.

[Zacha341]

I heard that! Can I come work for you [[smile)....? Just joking... I am one of the many barely standing middle-class [[sorta) working 'stiffs' at the $45,000 and below range who can't quite make it with family and expenses. And like so many of us I must work [[full and part-time) multiple jobs to cobble together that income. One job just just rarely cuts it now! A bugler may disagree, but NO I don't need my income 'redistributed'! The shrinking value of the dollar is depreciating it enough... LOL!

Not necessarily true. I earn in the top X% and would be fine paying more taxes to support health care for all, equality in educational opportunities, etc.

[jt1]

Can I come work for you [[smile).... just joking... I am one of the many working stiff at the $45,000 range who can quite make it with family and expenses. And like so many of us I have work multiple jobs to cobble together that income. One just just rarely cuts it now, and no I don't need my income 'redistrubited' the shrinking value of the dollar is depreciating it enough... LOL!

I think it would be ridiculous to expect someone supporting a family on 45K to re-distribute their money. There are ways that the tax code may be updated to ensure that working families [[whatever that means) can support their families but that as a society we can ive opportunities to everyone [[whether they take them or not is another issue)

I just think it is ridiculous that we have so many people that believe they need a 3,000 sq ft house, 2 brand new cars, new toys every year, etc but recoil at the thought of a nominal tax increase to support health care and education. [[I'm not talking about you above but way too many people - just my thoughts on the fact that we have become a very amterialistic society that is all too willing to turn our backs on those that need help)

[Zacha341]

I hear you... but the concept and enforcement of [[we could call it) 'conservationist' policy always gets distorted to jack up the people at my level, heading downward. Example: in some peoples world 'we' who are traveling mostly alone should drive a tiny car [[with some fee leveled for non-compliance), or hop on public transpo.

The big wigs [[yes, the democrats included), elite and bold continue in their big foot homes, with stretch limos and private jets from the white house on down.

They, have not, do not self-subscribe to the same policy they endorse to enforce... the poor and working poor are the ones that get the dictation and policy... I guess I have a real problem with that... politically and personally.

I drive a four-door mid-size door sedan alone. I am not trying hear a politician [[dem or repub) repudiate me for that choice....

I think it would be ridiculous to expect someone supporting a family on 45K to re-distribute their money. There are ways that the tax code may be updated to ensure that working families [[whatever that means) can support their families but that as a society we can ive opportunities to everyone [[whether they take them or not is another issue)

I just think it is ridiculous that we have so many people that believe they need a 3,000 sq ft house, 2 brand new cars, new toys every year, etc but recoil at the thought of a nominal tax increase to support health care and education. [[I'm not talking about you above but way too many people - just my thoughts on the fact that we have become a very amterialistic society that is all too willing to turn our backs on those that need help)

[lilpup]

I think it would be ridiculous to expect someone supporting a family on 45K to re-distribute their money. There are ways that the tax code may be updated to ensure that working families [[whatever that means) can support their families but that as a society we can ive opportunities to everyone [[whether they take them or not is another issue)

I just think it is ridiculous that we have so many people that believe they need a 3,000 sq ft house, 2 brand new cars, new toys every year, etc but recoil at the thought of a nominal tax increase to support health care and education. [[I'm not talking about you above but way too many people - just my thoughts on the fact that we have become a very amterialistic society that is all too willing to turn our backs on those that need help)

Peter Drucker warned about massive income gaps between the upper and lower employee levels being destabilizing. That's why he recommended a differential factor of about 40 times or so. If the lowest paid employee earns 10K then the highest paid gets only 400K. It's enough of a differential to keep people striving but is nowhere near the absurdity we have today. Tax laws could be used to induce similar thinking by businesses.

[Relayer76]

I heard that! Can I come work for you [[smile)....? Just joking... I am one of the many barely standing middle-class [[sorta) working 'stiffs' at the $45,000 and below range who can't quite make it with family and expenses. And like so many of us I must work [[full and part-time) multiple jobs to cobble together that income. One job just just rarely cuts it now! A bugler may disagree, but NO I don't need my income 'redistributed'! The shrinking value of the dollar is depreciating it enough... LOL!

Zacha, if you are making 45,000 working at two jobs, you would be a beneficiary of "redistribution". Why on earth would you think that an income that size would be "redistributed"!!!

[Zacha341]

Actually, I work 2 part-time jobs and one full-time job that makes up the bulk of my lower middle-class income... and no, I don't need my hard earned 'earnings' redistributed by the federal elite. I can designate my money. I don't need the government to regurgitate goodies and pre-determined services strained, thru bureaucratic machine - cents on a dollar.

As I mentioned before "..."redistribution" will always head downward, to the less powerful, uh, eh-hmm "rich": those making around $150 - 200,000 a year, heading "downward" from that segment of the upper middle class, downward further onto the working stiffs... who initially thought redistribution was grand idea, until their check is so eroded."

The bureaucrats at the helm of such determinations will always exempt themselves from the repercussions. The mid and lower middle-class working stiffs [[making under 100K will eventually be hit.) and have to live under their policies.

Zacha, if you are making 45,000 working at two jobs, you would be a beneficiary of "redistribution". Why on earth would you think that an income that size would be "redistributed"!!!

[MCP-001]

Let's just say for arguments sake that they succeed?

What incentive will people have to go out and do more/earn more if the next person who did absolutely nothing to achieve that will also benefit equally?

[Papasito]

What's this? 98% of the country want the cash that 2% of the country has?
What a notion! So let's keep exporting jobs, signing free trade agreements,
and keep up the years of red tape it takes to get a factory online here in the US
Let's tell the existing factories they need to put in ten million dollar environmentally
friendly smokestacks that require a quarter million dollar filter put in each one every
month and if they dont lets shut them down
let's restrict loans to new small businesses and bash entrapanuers and increase
taxes on small business owners who make over $100k..
then wonder why we dont have a prosperous economy.
So let's take the cash away from the people who earned thier fortunes to make up for it!

Do you think that asking someone if they want a rich man's money during a recession will get a NO response? Doubt it.Sign me up for a share of the profits from Heinz.. the Kerry's have way too much cash and they need to spread the wealth around

[Relayer76]

So let's take the cash away from the people who earned thier fortunes to make up for it!

Anyone who is making over a million a year did not "earn" it. That kind of wealth is made on the backs of working people and above a certain amount should be taxed and redistributed. I'm not talking about turning into Cuba here where doctors make the same as garbage collectors but it seems to me that there could be a maximum income - say a cool 1 million. I think most peole would consider that it is still worthwhile to get an education and work hard for that kind of money.

[oladub]

Relayer, Bill Gates, a Democrat, earned his millions by creating products that had never before existed. Had the government confiscated more of his money, perhaps some bureaucrats could have created the same internet products and put thousands of Americans to work just like Bill Gates did.

[Zacha341]

It never works out that way... the people at the mega rich levels will not have their income fully altered in mass, too many of them are players and decision makers in said quest for "redistribution" [[as a bargaining chip for their constituents and allies, to further build their fiscal reserves).

It's not just about dollars, it is about POWER therein. Thus, the force of "redistribution" will always head downward, to the less powerful, uh, eh-hmm "rich": those making around $150 - 200,000 a year, heading "downward" from that segment of the upper middle class, downward further onto the working stiffs... who initially thought redistribution was grand idea, until their check is so eroded.

On downward to those sated, wanting and waiting for the entitlement goodies, regurgitated and strained thru the vast government bureaucracies [[health care and other government services) - cents on the dollar [[the redistribution effort at work - sic). They will soon find the goods, and services fall short from what was promised.

Ohhhh yes, redistribution is a grand idea... indeed.

Anyone who is making over a million a year did not "earn" it. That kind of wealth is made on the backs of working people and above a certain amount should be taxed and redistributed. I'm not talking about turning into Cuba here where doctors make the same as garbage collectors but it seems to me that there could be a maximum income - say a cool 1 million. I think most peole would consider that it is still worthwhile to get an education and work hard for that kind of money.

[littlebuddy]

When I worked in the auto factory there were no people just off the boat, who had no skills or chance to take advantage of schools here, it was full of people who, for the most part, didn't take advantage of their schooling, didn't save every dollar they made to open their own business, but because the jobs payed well, they had nice houses, nice cars, places up north,etc. The backs of the working people seemed pretty good. The same with the Postal Service where I worked for 30 years, plenty of people with collage educations who just didn't want to pay their dues starting out at the bottom and working their way up the ladder. Most of the people I worked with over the years have been thankful for the good paying jobs, but know they squandered all the opportunity they had to use their skills, schooling, intellect,etc. The good pay with jobs that required no skills made them lazy. The idea of working long hours, with little pay, trying to start up some business, or starting out at the bottom of some company, having to work hard to prove yourself, seems lost on many people. Even taking care of yourself health wise, so as not to be a drain on any health care system seems lost on most people. I have always had trouble understanding why so many of these postal workers, auto factory workers complained about the higher ups making so much money when they could afford a nice house, nice cars, collage education for their children, places up north, etc. Do people who blow their opportunities and chances in life and settle for good paying, no skill jobs take it out on anyone who does something with their life?