Racial Divide in Major Cities

[Danny]

You can all thank segregation, xenophobia, freeways, political corruption, the 1967 riot, fast suburban development, real estate "white steering" [[as in quickly selling Detroit homes to blacks to that white folks can move the suburban homes and keep blacks out,) poor police protection, poor Detroit Public Schools, vacant lots, abandon buildings, Colemany A. Young, black control of all city services, a ghost town like Downtown Detroit, D-DOT bus cuts, black flight [[mostly middle class blacks) Kwame Kilpatrick's Manoogian Parties and many more.

It shape Detroit and its suburbs what it is today, a URBAN DONUT! White folks on the outside, black folks in the inside.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

As I turn off Detroit 1-8-7 on ABC on my idiot box.

Neda, I miss you so.

[Stosh]

Because calling that "ethnic cleansing" is so fucking stupid, not to mention offensive to a lot of people.

Fucking stupid? Then you come up with a more descriptive term, genius. The systematic removal of one ethnic group in favor of another is what? Just because that removal didn't take an "official" form through government [[well it did, but another story) and didn't involve the death of the group involved [[some but not all... see a pattern here?) doesn't make it anything other than that.

And BTW, what people are finding this offensive? You? Have YOUR people been "cleansed"? I'll let you in on a little secret, mine have. And not here either.

[iheartthed]

I'll let you in on a little secret, mine have. And not here either.

Well your definition of "ethnic cleansing" leaves a lot to be desired. So by your definition, that could mean almost anything...

[Stosh]

Well your definition of "ethnic cleansing" leaves a lot to be desired. So by your definition, that could mean almost anything...

Still didn't answer the question. Obviously the view isn't that clear from where you are.

Different methods of ethnic cleansing used in my example. Death of the family in the "Old country" via Hitler in one, and loss of property, loss of the use of property and living in the the city in the other. Same principle, different methods. Either one eradicates an ethnic group from a specific area.

[iheartthed]

loss of the use of property and living in the the city in the other. Same principle, different methods. Either one eradicates an ethnic group from a specific area.

Uh no. Continuing this conversation is pointless until you familiarize yourself with what "ethnic cleansing" really means.

[Stosh]

Uh no. Continuing this conversation is pointless until you familiarize yourself with what "ethnic cleansing" really means.

Please remove your head from your behind and read this. Larger typeface my emphasis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism that has come to be used broadly to describe all forms of ethnically-motivated violence, ranging from murder, rape, and torture to the forcible removal of populations.[1] A 1993 United Nations Commission defined it more specifically as, "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group,by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."[1] The term entered English and international media usage in the early 1990s to describe war events in the former Yugoslavia, particularly Kosovo and Bosnia.
The term ethnic cleansing is not to be confused with genocide. These terms are not synonymous, yet the academic discourse considers both as existing in a spectrum of assaults on nations or religio-ethnic groups. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or 'population transfer' whereas genocide is the "intentional murder of part or all of a particular ethnic, religious, or national group."[2] The idea in ethnic cleansing is "to get people to move, and the means used to this end range from the legal to the semi-legal."[3] Some academics consider genocide as a subset of "murderous ethnic cleansing."[4] Thus, these concepts are different, but related, "literally and figuratively, ethnic cleansing bleeds into genocide, as mass murder is committed in order to rid the land of a people."[5]

[Hermod]

Well your definition of "ethnic cleansing" leaves a lot to be desired. So by your definition, that could mean almost anything...

Do some internet reading. The term "ethnic cleansing" covers a very broad spectrum of circumstances with genocide being at one extreme end. The virtual elimination of the Korean community from northwest Detroit lies at the other end of the spectrum from genocide.

[iheartthed]

Do some internet reading. The term "ethnic cleansing" covers a very broad spectrum of circumstances with genocide being at one extreme end. The virtual elimination of the Korean community from northwest Detroit lies at the other end of the spectrum from genocide.

I don't have to read anything because I already know what ethnic cleansing means.

[Stosh]

I don't have to read anything because I already know what ethnic cleansing means.

Of course you do. Because I just TOLD you what it meant.

[iheartthed]

Of course you do. Because I just TOLD you what it meant.

Yet you still inaccurately refer to the situation previously described as "ethnic cleansing"... Interesting.

[Stosh]

Yet you still inaccurately refer to the situation previously described as "ethnic cleansing"... Interesting.

Really? Boy you must have one hell of a reading comprehension problem. Please try not to generalize, and spell it out for me. How is intimidation and violence against an ethnic group NOT ethnic cleansing?

AND... the removal and subsequent relocation and enslavement of various ethnic subsets during WWII has similar overtones to the basic premise posited here.

[Detroit Stylin]

Yes, a lot of Hmongs live there. The Vietnamese have moved out to Macomb County, Chinese and Indians to Troy.

There used to be a significant Korean community on west 8 mile and 7 mile in Detroit, but it appears they have moved out/been ethnically cleansed.

Hmmmm...pretty much like the many "Sun down" towns that had heavily black piopulations that once dotted Michigan and towns all across the country all of a sudden became all white overnight eh?

Yeah I can see the similarities...

http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/con...-whitemap.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=103x335789

http://www.nathanielturner.com/sundowntowns.htm

http://ecarson.wordpress.com/2008/10...ndown-towns-3/

[Hermod]

Hmmmm...pretty much like the many "Sun down" towns that had heavily black piopulations that all of a sudden became all white overnight eh?

Yeah I can see the similarities...

Most of the "sun down" towns did not have a heavily black population. In the southern areas with a heavy black population, the blacks were needed for the work force and were subjugated through terror tactics, but not driven out.

The southern areas that went completely white during the era had a much smaller back population percentage wise that was driven out after some real or imagined incident of criminality, and the town or county decided that "we don't need this" and became completely white. There are a lot of rural southern counties [[mostly in the areas that had not been slave holding before 1860) that dropped from 15% black in the 1880 census to 1% black by the 1910 census [[some of these counties were in the north especially southern Indiana) .

A small minority population packing up and fleeing because of a real or imagined threat from the ethnic majority qualifies as ethnic cleansing.

[iheartthed]

Really? Boy you must have one hell of a reading comprehension problem. Please try not to generalize, and spell it out for me. How is intimidation and violence against an ethnic group NOT ethnic cleansing?

AND... the removal and subsequent relocation and enslavement of various ethnic subsets during WWII has similar overtones to the basic premise posited here.

:::sigh:::

Did you miss the part about the policies being enacted by a state authority [[or de facto government where the official state government is not recognized as sovereign)? Did you also miss the part about removal or eradication of an ethnic group from a defined territory? FYI, they aren't defining "territory" as some neighborhood in Detroit......

I mean that's just the tip of the iceberg, since I don't know of any evidence that Korean Americans were systematically removed from northwest Detroit by anyone, let alone an organized movement. And it would be pretty interesting that Koreans were "ethnically cleansed" from northwest Detroit yet still allowed to freely operate businesses there, as they have done and still continue to do.

[Detroit Stylin]

Most of the "sun down" towns did not have a heavily black population. In the southern areas with a heavy black population, the blacks were needed for the work force and were subjugated through terror tactics, but not driven out.

The southern areas that went completely white during the era had a much smaller back population percentage wise that was driven out after some real or imagined incident of criminality, and the town or county decided that "we don't need this" and became completely white. There are a lot of rural southern counties [[mostly in the areas that had not been slave holding before 1860) that dropped from 15% black in the 1880 census to 1% black by the 1910 census [[some of these counties were in the north especially southern Indiana) .

A small minority population packing up and fleeing because of a real or imagined threat from the ethnic majority qualifies as ethnic cleansing.

So forced emigration is justified if it was a light population?