Racial Divide in Major Cities

[DetroitArmy]

Not surprising in the least bit, but check out this map of racial divide in Metro Detroit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...7624812674967/

You can check out racial divide in the top 40 cities below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...674967/detail/

[canuck]

This reminds me of the work that William "Wild Bill" Bunge, Geographer did in Detroit in the 60's and 70's until he got kicked out of Wayne State for his radical views and projects. You can access some interesting glimpses of his work here;

http://indiemaps.com/blog/2010/03/wild-bill-bunge/

I have tried to find him, he may be living in Montreal since he published a paper dated Montreal 2008 for a convention in Boston.

[DetroitHabitater]

I love this map. Although there are some anomalies when you blow it up, such as 4 people living on belle isle, and a dozen or so living in the detroit-windsor tunnel

[ronaldj]

"Division Street" by Studs Terkel was an interesting read about Chicago in the seventies. No doubt its message holds up these many years past.

[iheartthed]

Besides race, you can also see how densely populated Detroit is versus some other cities...

[jt1]

Besides race, you can also see how densely populated Detroit is versus some other cities...

It's pretty clear what many mean when they say 'nobody lives there anymore'.

[Hermod]

the City of Detroit seems to lack diversity. Oakland County is far more diverse than Detroit.

[MikeM]

I love this map. Although there are some anomalies when you blow it up, such as 4 people living on belle isle, and a dozen or so living in the detroit-windsor tunnel

Each dot represents 25 people. I'm guessing Belle Isle and the tunnel were included within a census tract and then the dots representing population were spread evenly over the census tract area. It's not an accurate portrayal of the city's population distribution.

[Detroit Stylin]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walking...7624812674967/

Yeah this is rather clear cut why we dont need Light Raill....

look at how so much more dense, Atlanta is than we are....

*sarcasm**

[DetroitHabitater]

Each dot represents 25 people. I'm guessing Belle Isle and the tunnel were included within a census tract and then the dots representing population were spread evenly over the census tract area. It's not an accurate portrayal of the city's population distribution.

Curious. Almost defeats the propose of mapping it. I wonder how large the tracts are.

[RaumVogel]

I love this map. Although there are some anomalies when you blow it up, such as 4 people living on belle isle, and a dozen or so living in the detroit-windsor tunnel

Yea, I'm sure thier are way more than 4 people living on Belle Isle.

[blackmath]

I really hope that one day society as a whole will get beyond the entire issue of race. It seems so childish to me and backward to even care about it. In the end we all have to live here so we might as well live together in peace.

[ordinary]

I really hope that one day society as a whole will get beyond the entire issue of race. It seems so childish to me and backward to even care about it. In the end we all have to live here so we might as well live together in peace.

Blackmath,
I feel the same way. Sometimes just reading some of the stuff on this forum makes me feel helpless and hopeless.

[Detroitej72]

Maps and Legends:
[[with respect to R.E.M.)

He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.
He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.

Called the fool and the company,
On his own where he'd rather be.
Where he ought to be, he sees what you can't see, can't you see that?

Maybe he's caught in the legend,
Maybe he's caught in the mood.
Maybe these maps and legends
Have been misunderstood.

Down the way the road's divided,
Paint me the places you have seen.
Those who know what I don't know
Refer to the yellow, red and green

Maybe he's caught in the legend,
Maybe he's caught in the mood.
Maybe these maps and legends
Have been misunderstood.

He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.
He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.
He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.
He's not to be reached, he's to be reached.

The map that you painted didn't seem real.
He just sings whatever he's seen
Point to the legend, point to the east,
Point to the yellow, red and green

Maybe he's caught in the legend,
Maybe he's caught in the mood.
Maybe these maps and legends
Have been misunderstood, been misunderstood. [[Maps and legends)

[[Maps and legends) Is he to be reached? He's not to be reached.
[[Maps and legends) Is he to be reached? He's not to be reached.
[[Maps and legends) Is he to be reached? He's not to be reached anymore.

[GOAT]

I would say it is now more of an economic class struggle than out and out racism. As black people make up the majority of the poor in this area [[and most urban areas) it stands that the segregation between people of colour would also show.

[Det_ard]

Way to miss the point, JT1. Look beyond race. Reread my post.

In addition to racial diversity, which I assume your numbers represent, and in addition to ethnic, nationality and religious diversity which I already mentioned, there's political, educational and economic diversity [[and more).

To me, diversity goes way beyond race. It's about different ideas, viewpoints, life experiences and attitudes. Those aren't necessarily defined by one's race/ethnicity/nationality/religion/politics/income/education, but diversity in those categories seems to enhance differences in ideas, viewpoints, life experiences and attitudes.

I've lived in Detroit and in various suburbs. For me, in my experience [[sorry no footnotes or links), I experienced greater diversity amongst neighbors on my street or in my neighborhood in the suburbs, using my broader measure of diversity. YMMV.

[jt1]

Way to miss the point, JT1. Look beyond race. Reread my post.

In addition to racial diversity, which I assume your numbers represent, and in addition to ethnic, nationality and religious diversity which I already mentioned, there's political, educational and economic diversity [[and more).

The numbers that I represented are racial and ethnic [[as defined by SEMCOG). If you want to add additional factors of diversity such as political, educational and econcomic that is fine. I would however expect you to have some facts to support your claims. People often see what they want to see which is what you appear to be doing

To me, diversity goes way beyond race. It's about different ideas, viewpoints, life experiences and attitudes. Those aren't necessarily defined by one's race/ethnicity/nationality/religion/politics/income/education, but diversity in those categories seems to enhance differences in ideas, viewpoints, life experiences and attitudes.

And you think this applies in places like Troy and Canton? I suspect we see things through a very, very different lens.

I'll wait to see some facts because you are defining what is diverse and what is not based upon your experiences. Based upon my experiences places like Troy and Canton are the epitome of group think.

I think you missed my point that you hail the great diversity in Troy yet dismiss any diversity in Detroit. Matbe it is based upon specifif neighborhoods but I just don't see how you can support that with facts.

[jt1]

I've lived in Detroit and in various suburbs. For me, in my experience [[sorry no footnotes or links), I experienced greater diversity amongst neighbors on my street or in my neighborhood in the suburbs, using my broader measure of diversity. YMMV.

So your sampling size is your street/neighborhood in Detroit vs. your street/neighborhood in the suburbs. That's a wonderful sample size to amking grand claims about entire cities.

I think the larger issue is that there is very little diversity anywhere in Metro Detroit. I guess our argument of which area is more diverse is pointless since we have a region that segregates itself based upon race, ethnicity, socio-economic factors, etc.

[iheartthed]

So your sampling size is your street/neighborhood in Detroit vs. your street/neighborhood in the suburbs. That's a wonderful sample size to amking grand claims about entire cities.

I think the larger issue is that there is very little diversity anywhere in Metro Detroit. I guess our argument of which area is more diverse is pointless since we have a region that segregates itself based upon race, ethnicity, socio-economic factors, etc.

You might as well stop while you're ahead. Next he'll be trying to get you to believe that different hair colors are a sign of diversity, and yet another reason that the suburbs are more diverse than Detroit.

[Det_ard]

You might as well stop while you're ahead. Next he'll be trying to get you to believe that different hair colors are a sign of diversity, and yet another reason that the suburbs are more diverse than Detroit.

Buzz off, flea.

[iheartthed]

Buzz off, flea.

You just stay focused on shoring up your flawed logic...

[fryar]

Diversity is also about people, erm, "of different demographic groups" living in the same place, or amongst one another and coming into contact with one another. Instead of living in homogenous ghettohoods, as Danny might say. FWIW.

[Det_ard]

OK, JT1, if you want to get into a "prove it" fest you win. I'm not googling census data all afternoon to verify what any sentient being knows about metro Detroit already. You're being purposely obtuse, IMO, since I actually give you credit for being fairly smart.

Even Danny knows where the Chaldeans, Italians, Polish, Albanians, Vietnamese, Japanese or Indians [[Asian) tend to cluster. We all know there are cities more heavily populated by Jews, or by Muslims. We all know which cities are blue/red/purple. Which are mixed income and which are mainly low or high-income. If you've had so little interaction with others outside your comfort zone [[green zone) that you haven't noticed any of the differences in our region then what do we have to discuss? You're apparently blind to the non-race-based diversity all around our region.

[jt1]

OK, JT1, if you want to get into a "prove it" fest you win. I'm not googling census data all afternoon to verify what any sentient being knows about metro Detroit already. You're being purposely obtuse, IMO, since I actually give you credit for being fairly smart.

Even Danny knows where the Chaldeans, Italians, Polish, Albanians, Vietnamese, Japanese or Indians [[Asian) tend to cluster. We all know there are cities more heavily populated by Jews, or by Muslims. We all know which cities are blue/red/purple. Which are mixed income and which are mainly low or high-income. If you've had so little interaction with others outside your comfort zone [[green zone) that you haven't noticed any of the differences in our region then what do we have to discuss? You're apparently blind to the non-race-based diversity all around our region.

I think that is the issue in our region. Even in the sub groups you mention people tend to stay 'in their group'. Are you telling me the Chaldean and Italian communities are interacting with everyone on a regular basis? Yes there may be a Chaldean population in Troy, an Albanian population in Macomb county, an Italian population in Northern Macomb count but those communities by and large interact with each other. That's the problem with the region.

There may be diversity there but there is littlle interaction amongst different socio-econcomic groups, religious groups, ethnic groups. To me, using your criteria we shouldn't be looking at city level but in smaller groups. Italians are not hanging out with Chaldeans, poor are not hanging out with wealthy, etc.

We have a region that consist of groups that do not stray outside of their group often. It's sad when it is a surprise to see white and black kids hanging out or Chaldean and Italian kids hanging out or Middle Eastern and black kids hanging out.

We have a region that is founded and still heavily rooted in segregation.

[blackmath]

It's sad when it is a surprise to see white and black kids hanging out or Chaldean and Italian kids hanging out or Middle Eastern and black kids hanging out.

-kids have it right. Then they grow up to be boring, bigoted, paranoid xenophobic adults... ahh the cycle of life...