Nolan Finley's Sunday editorial

[Hypestyles]

I wonder will Nolan discuss this on "Am I Right?", on Chuck Stoke's program, or on Devon Scillians?

[R8RBOB]

I wonder will Nolan discuss this on "Am I Right?", on Chuck Stoke's program, or on Devon Scillians?

He made an off-hand remark about preferring to own Somerset instead of Washington Blvd. on this past Sunday's Flashpoint. At the time, I didn't understand the remark but I had yet read his editorial which would have shined a light on the comment. I would hope that Devin would make this a round-table discussion with Rochelle Riley, Stephen Henderson, Finley and Brooks.

[MrSam]

He made an off-hand remark about preferring to own Somerset instead of Washington Blvd. on this past Sunday's Flashpoint. At the time, I didn't understand the remark but I had yet read his editorial which would have shined a light on the comment. I would hope that Devin would make this a round-table discussion with Rochelle Riley, Stephen Henderson, Finley and Brooks.

Yeah I caught that this Sunday, and almost spit out my coffee at that outlandish statement. That clown saying a downtrending boring somerset over a up trending energy filled Washington blvd, that alone let me know that finley, is full of it. I wonder who'll be the idiot if enough Detroiters cancel their Detroit News subscription, and he's without a job.

[bailey]

Yeah I caught that this Sunday, and almost spit out my coffee at that outlandish statement. That clown saying a downtrending boring somerset over a up trending energy filled Washington blvd, that alone let me know that finley, is full of it. I wonder who'll be the idiot if enough Detroiters cancel their Detroit News subscription, and he's without a job.

yeah somerset's 100% occupancy is certainly illustrative of its downtrending.

[English]

It probably isn't unless Finley reads this and is motivated to write more "call-to-action" type pieces targeted at regional leaders and residents. However, now you've [[inadvertently?) raised the question of what would be helpful. I propose starting a joint-petition between Detroit and suburban residents to move for either more integrated regional cooperation in several key areas affecting the region, or the formation of a resource and administrative power-sharing regional government. We could also elect a DY member to draft a letter to regional journalists to support such an initiative to [[a) inform residents of the initiative, and [[b) put pressure on regional leaders to move earnestly and quickly to accomplish the initiative.

I agree. There seem to be a lot of energy around reforming Detroit, but not a whole lot of coherence.

I'm very pleased that one of my classmates from Renaissance, Tonya Myers-Phillips, is now on the Detroit Charter Commission thanks to Freman Hendrix's departure. But we also need a Michigan state constitutional convention. We need to rethink home rule. I understand why it was instituted, but it has been used for my entire lifetime as a divisive tool on both sides. Perhaps we retain it, but blunt some of its effects. I don't know. That is what you guys in politics and advocacy do for a living -- I'll leave you to it.

Of course, we need to fix schools, but we also need attention to adult literacy, especially after Engler decimated adult education in the 1990s. I'm thinking about writing my first federal grant targeted towards critical and functional workplace literacies, maybe a "second chance" sort of program for adults over 25... it's still in the future, though, perhaps a 2011-2012 AY project.

The problem is that there aren't any jobs once they finish, and I can't see where the next great source of jobs is coming from. What we really need is a federal works/infrastructure project... since there isn't the political will on the national level to do such a thing, I have wondered if we could figure out how to leverage Detroit's great "emptiness" into one of the biggest collective municipal/state level public works efforts in American history. If you've got hundreds of thousands of low-skilled and semi-skilled workers, why not do what was done in the 1930s and HIRE them to build this city anew? To build a city unlike anything the United States or the world has seen? Skilled/trades unions could do skilled jobs, but there will be lots of other kinds of small jobs. Sure, it's a huge project -- perhaps it will take 10, 15, or even 20 years to do it. Well, that's nearly half a generation. You'd change the mood in this city. You'd get immigrants moving in.

And maybe... just maybe... in my lifetime, we will see Detroiters forgive each other across all divides of race, religion, and socioeconomic status.

I know. There's no money to do this. There's lots of holes. The unemployed/underemployed in the city will not be good employees. It will be divisive. We hate each other too hard. Well, I'm a teacher, not a planner or an economist or any of those other whiz kids. All I know is that Detroiters need to dream big dreams again. Our hometown is one of the best cities in the world... we just have been deluded into thinking we aren't sh-t and that our past is a life sentence. It is not.

Langston Hughes once said, "Let America become America again." I say, let Detroit become Detroit again.

[mwilbert]

Even if you could somehow finance a massive rebuilding effort in Detroit, that would only provide jobs while you were doing the rebuilding, then you would have this built-up stuff and still no jobs, and it would all come falling down again. Ultimately there has to be some way for people to make a living in the Detroit area other than rebuilding it, or people who need to make a living have to leave.

[mwilbert]

Huh? What cities is he talking about? Rev. Smith is apparently claiming that Detroiters’ distrustful isolationism is justified because white folks have wrested control of “many cities” from blacks after those cities have been revitalized. This is a complete and total myth. No such cities exist. There is not a single city in this country that is or was once majority black and governed by black politicians that has been "revitalized" in some kind of way and then reverted to white political control. It simply hasn’t happened.

You are right; this is definitely fear-mongering and race-baiting, and the idea that this could happen in Detroit anytime in the foreseeable future is laughable. However, it isn't impossible that it could happen somewhere, and I will actually be surprised if blacks are not a minority in Washington DC and lose political control [[to the extent DC has home rule) within the next 20 years or so.

[English]

Even if you could somehow finance a massive rebuilding effort in Detroit, that would only provide jobs while you were doing the rebuilding, then you would have this built-up stuff and still no jobs, and it would all come falling down again. Ultimately there has to be some way for people to make a living in the Detroit area other than rebuilding it, or people who need to make a living have to leave.

What the rebuilding effort might do -- and I admit, this is a naive idea -- is promote a work ethic and teach a marketable trade. And then, maybe they'd be able to form their own small businesses, or larger businesses would locate here.

I don't know... just brainstorming. Of course without money or permanent industries, this is nothing but pie in the sky.

[MrSam]

yeah somerset's 100% occupancy is certainly illustrative of its downtrending.

Smart ass somerset is used as a metaphor for troy. The city with the lowest taxes in SE MI. There's no way troy will keep such low taxes & maintain its city services, while only receiving half the revenue from its declining residential & commercial properties. TAXES HAS TO BE RAISE OR THERE WILL BE MASSIVE SERVICE CUT = DOWNTRENDING!

[English]

You are right; this is definitely fear-mongering and race-baiting, and the idea that this could happen in Detroit anytime in the foreseeable future is laughable. However, it isn't impossible that it could happen somewhere, and I will actually be surprised if blacks are not a minority in Washington DC and lose political control [[to the extent DC has home rule) within the next 20 years or so.

Half the older Detroiters I know believe that the imminent white takeover of Midtown and Downtown is at hand. I always wonder why they think that Detroit has suddenly become Seattle or Portland... um, don't we all wish.

[mwilbert]

Half the older Detroiters I know believe that the imminent white takeover of Midtown and Downtown is at hand. I always wonder why they think that Detroit has suddenly become Seattle or Portland... um, don't we all wish.

Well, I think some people don't wish it if it meant that the group that they identify with wasn't be in control of the city any more--they would rather be the big fish in the stagnant pond.

I also don't think these notions are completely groundless--downtown and midtown are definitely different demographically from most of the rest of the city, and at some point I would expect that there will be efforts to gain more autonomy--I know some people have been trying to figure out how to have publicly-funded, local [[resident-dominated) schools in Midtown, which as far as I can tell is not currently possible.

However, the truth is that the city has more than enough room for everyone who is likely to want to live it in for a very long time, and worrying about a theoretical massive influx of white folk isn't high on my list of things sensible people in Detroit ought to concerned about.

[bailey]

Smart ass somerset is used as a metaphor for troy. The city with the lowest taxes in SE MI. There's no way troy will keep such low taxes & maintain its city services, while only receiving half the revenue from its declining residential & commercial properties. TAXES HAS TO BE RAISE OR THERE WILL BE MASSIVE SERVICE CUT = DOWNTRENDING!

So, Detroit has an enormous tax burden and provides terrible services. Using your " logic", washington blvd[[as a metaphor or simply as the vacant commercial strip) is doing better?

[JohnnyFreddy]

I'm now going to engage in amateur sociology, which is always dangerous. I'm sure I am oversimplifying greatly, but for some reason I can't resist.

What you see in Detroit is primarily the result of a sorting phenomenon.

For various reasons [[I'm not going there) a large proportion of the people who could move out of the city, did. That largely left people who couldn't, and at least for the past forty years the main reason you wouldn't be able to move is mainly that you are poor. There are lots of reasons that people might be poor, but in general it is because they have one or more of poor parents*, poor educations, poor time-preferences, poor work habits, poor health, or poor support systems.

So it is hardly surprising that a large proportion of the people living in Detroit have these kinds of issues; it isn't a random sample, and these problems are mutually reinforcing. The question is how do you change things to get into a virtuous circle rather than a vicious one. There are several obvious points of intervention, all of which have been tried, rarely successfully. Equally obviously, we have to keep trying.

*Either poor economically or poor in parenting skills

I'm about to simplify my thoughts, mostly because usually when I write long winded
posts....they are not permitted to enter. So here goes.
In the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow', the lead character tells the Powers
that be, that the entire Northern portion of the United States must be forsaken,
and the salvation efforts must be concentrated on the saveable Southern portion.
There is simply "No Time" to save the obviously lost.
A General concurs and relates the problem at hand to a similar decision making
process used in Warfare Medical Triage. Again, save the ones you can, and may
God have mercy on us all.
Do you understand what I'm saying here?
Full support to Robert Bobb, and we can only pray that he is legitimate.
The rest.....stop the pillaging of all the abandoned homes, turn on all the street lights,
set an enforceable quota on the number of children [[say,two) that welfare will cover,
enforce 'no loitering' laws on Gas Stations, turn on the street lights, hire more
police, and not just the 'stick up their asses' ones either, ask Mayor Bing if he still
plans on only one term, if so, why the 'Big Plans' if the next Mayor will probably
come-up with his own strategy anyway, and probably will be a Cheek or Kilpatrick,
...knowing Detroit's record of voting......Oh, and TURN ON THE STREET
LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!

[JohnnyFreddy]

[quote=barnesfoto;182916]First, let's get something out of the way.
Cross district or non cross district bussing was one of the stupidest ideas that liberals ever came up with.

I should know, as I was a pawn in the failed experiment of school bussing in Detroit. It made me [[briefly, between seventh and tenth grade, when I outgrew the simplistic ideas involved) into a full blown conservative. My neighborhood school was already integrated. Within a few short years, all the white kids in my neighborhood were either gone or enrolled in private schools.

The money spent on busses and fossil fuels would have been much better spent on teachers, magnet programs and art/music classes..anything but aimlessly driving students to a school miles away that duplicates what is available at
a school blocks away.

That said, having one school board for the entire metro area or one national school system would be a much better idea...

While I do agree with barnesfoto, that a regional School Board for the entire
Metro Detroit area, would be an excellent idea....
I disagree that the 'Bussing' was a complete failure.
I attended Detroit Public Schools my Eighth Grade year, and the neighborhood
school I was enrolled in, was a study in illiteracy. My home room teacher never
once tried to pronounce my last name correctly, and nothing of value was taught
in most of the subjects taught. It was more like detention, with the teachers barely
keeping the kids under control. Recently coming from a rural school system.....
I was totally shocked, to say the least. Every day was spent having spelling bees,
where I was basically the only one who could spell anything longer than five letters.
That was 1973 people!!!!! How bad do you think it got from there in Detroit.
Then one day a bright spot hit Detroit. The entire eighth grade class in my school
was bussed across town, to an all white school. You should have seen how the
kids excelled, both academically and socially.
They were exposed to a culture and schooling system they never even dreamed
there was. They were very happy and needed no direction regarding discipline.
The respect shown to them for their efforts, was enough to keep them grounded,
and I'm sure most of them went on to become productive citizens.
I'm not saying bussing is necessarily the answer to all of Detroit's problems,
I'm just speaking of my experience.
Maybe diversified education and experience in other cultures, is a viable option
worth considering.
Let us step away from the learning experience that is T.V./Videos/Movies,
and move to join forces with our Suburban neighbors, rather than an increased
polarization. After all, what we've been trying has obviously been mostly failure.

[swingline]

Half the older Detroiters I know believe that the imminent white takeover of Midtown and Downtown is at hand. I always wonder why they think that Detroit has suddenly become Seattle or Portland... um, don't we all wish.

English, just wondering, are you saying that these older Detroiters don't like what they see happening in Midtown and Downtown? Can you elaborate? Not looking for you to defend a position or anything. Just trying to understand the viewpoint of the citizenry.

[canuck]

This sure is an interesting thread, in that sense thank you kindly mr Finley for igniting it. I am getting a lot of strong autumnal emotion helping me piece together this puzzle called Detroit. I like to hear the two sides of the bussing story and especially since both are credible points of view from people who lived through these trials. I also enjoy English's bittersweet evaluation of Detroit's reform project and the political will it needs to get it done. I believe it can be done at this point, I mean initiated, because as corny as it sounds; Necessity is the mother of invention. Politicians will find a way to provoke a regional debate, then maybe a lot of compromises will lead to a highly imperfect administrative structure, but it will be a start.

The biggest problem is not political will, because people with the right intentions such as the Bings, the Granholms, the Obamas can do their part according to their energy, talent and agendas. The problem is that Detroiters including regionals have not been energized to this debate. On the one hand, there is enthusiasm for what may come of the new plan, but a lot of uncertainty because it all seems like a top down affair. The problem as I see it is that people need to be demanding. Detroiters who care, people who are in desperate need of a positive turnaround must involve themselves in the process. Detroiters who for a long time felt they had no stake in the city's affairs and are bent on self destruction and isolation as mr Finley describes, may be hard to reach; but let us first think of who may enlist on this renaissance trip. Among metro residents who own property in the city and suburbs, everybody is affected to some degree and the fear of decreasing values has had a very strong hold on their imagination. There has to be
the grassroots mobilization that will petition politicians for more rather than less.

When GM and Chrysler went to borrow or be bankrolled, they got what they came for, they were demanding. They had a good poker hand; how can we let the auto industry fail? What about Detroit's failure, how does that impact its citizens and how about bankrolling a plan to devise a better city?

China will be spending 300 billion dollars on new railways from now to 2020. That is a lot of money for the low wages earned in spite of the wealth that country has created. China's decisions are top down to a very high degree, but let us face it, they have eclipsed North American industry. GM and Ford will be far more profitable from China and India manufacturing and export sales in the next little while than from our domestic market. North American bankrolling of auto manufacturers has far more sinister implications in the long run than we want to imagine. It's really cool to think of how sad it was the reds never got to taste corndogs and ride in T-Birds. Well now they do; in Russia and China. Communist party apparatchiks and varying degrees of hoodlums got to gobble up oil companies and everything else that once belonged to the proletariat...

No need for a revolution of the proletariat, there is enough bloodshed in the streets of US cities as it is. But I think the time for a more demanding coalition of lower and middle and a sprinkle of wealthy classes could poke the soggy teabags and stop the nonsense. Detroit needs action from detroiters, urban and burban.