Nolan Finley's Sunday editorial

[Det_ard]

I read the posts in this thread before I read Finley's op-ed. I was expecting something full of vitriol and mean personal characterizations of Detroiters. What I found was a clear description of the state of Detroit that most people, including Detroiters, would recognize as correct.

Unfortunately some people start to hyperventilate upon hearing Finley's name or the utterance of the word "conservative" and they can't seem to deal with the ideas being considered. Ignorance, illegitimacy and isolation. Is there a path out of this mess for Detroiters, or is it a death spiral?

My two cents -- "outside help" won't be accepted or offered in sufficient quantity, so its ultimately up to Detroiters to fix the ignorance and illegitimacy. It can be done but it will require a culture change which will only come if enough people are truly fed up. More likely in my view is we see pockets of progress and wide swaths of disaster for years to come.

[barnesfoto]

so its ultimately up to Detroiters to fix the ignorance and illegitimacy. It can be done but it will require a culture change which will only come if enough people are truly fed up

Gosh, are you advocating "Community Activism"? That sounds great. Been there, done that. It helps.

I would point out that Finley's political allies have repeatedly ridiculed the current president's experience with "Community Activism" and "Community Organizing".

That's another reason why some of us refer to them as a cult.

[fryar]

Not much in the way of solutions in that column, and not really a root-cause analysis, but a number of fair observations, nonetheless. Nolan's not the first guy who comes to mind as a proponent of regional government.

[Ravine]

You also write some pretty long ass sentences. Which is usually indicative of an author who has nothing useful to say.

A fine defense. Well played!! Wounded, am I.

Next time, have somebody cut them up into little slices, for you, so they will be more manageable.

[Detroitnerd]

Dear Poor People,

We, the rich folks of suburban Detroit would like to take a moment to chastise you.

Yes, sure, we started moving out of the city a long time ago. We did not want to live near you. We didn't want to have you move next to use and ruin the value of our homes. We did not want to pay taxes! We didn't want to pay for your children's educations. We did not want to pay for programs to ensure your young had access to food and shelter. Frankly, you disgust us, and we will do everything in our power to ensure that not a penny of our local taxes goes to improve your lives in any way.

Thankfully, we were able to start new governments out here, so we don't have to pay for you, see you, or deal with you at all, unless you come up to go to one of our "black" schools, or work at a fast food place or something. Get this straight: We are not interested in helping you at all, through taxes or any other way. It's nothing personal, but, poor people gross us out, you know?

But now we must take a moment to chastise you. Your city is a total dysfunctional hellhole! You're all poor slobs! You have zero education! Your families are all screwed up! You people are trash, and that's why we'll never lift a finger to help you.

Remember, you're not poor because of us. You're poor because of YOU!

Sincerely,

Wealthy Suburban People
Suburbia, Mich.
A Subsidized Project of the U.S. Government

[R8RBOB]

Dear Poor People,

We, the rich folks of suburban Detroit would like to take a moment to chastise you.

Yes, sure, we started moving out of the city a long time ago. We did not want to live near you. We didn't want to have you move next to use and ruin the value of our homes. We did not want to pay taxes! We didn't want to pay for your children's educations. We did not want to pay for programs to ensure your young had access to food and shelter. Frankly, you disgust us, and we will do everything in our power to ensure that not a penny of our local taxes goes to improve your lives in any way.

Thankfully, we were able to start new governments out here, so we don't have to pay for you, see you, or deal with you at all, unless you come up to go to one of our "black" schools, or work at a fast food place or something. Get this straight: We are not interested in helping you at all, through taxes or any other way. It's nothing personal, but, poor people gross us out, you know?

But now we must take a moment to chastise you. Your city is a total dysfunctional hellhole! You're all poor slobs! You have zero education! Your families are all screwed up! You people are trash, and that's why we'll never lift a finger to help you.

Remember, you're not poor because of us. You're poor because of YOU!

Sincerely,

Wealthy Suburban People
Suburbia, Mich.
A Subsidized Project of the U.S. Government

to quote Jason Whitlock.....you did the damn thang. Love it

[rooms222]

Having lived through the regional government and one-way busing from the city to the suburbs in Indianapolis, I would like to point out some things about how it worked and didn't work:

To some degree, the regional government gave some degree of power to the suburban areas, but also encouraged moderation in who ran for Mayor. For the first 20 years or so, Indianapolis had a string of moderate-to liberal Republicans as mayor- Richard Lugar, now the Senator that seems to be congenial with the Democrats more than the Republicans these days, William Hudnut, and Steven Goldsmith, now the #2 with Mayor Bloomberg who has done a lot about reinventing government. Lately, Indianapolis had a more traditional big-city Democratic mayor followed by a backlash that led to a more conservative mayor.

Under Unigov, schools, police, and fire remained separate. Now, after 40 years, mergers have started to take place, both due to changes in comfort zones, migrations, and financial constraints.

The one-way busing was a success for some, but there did not seem to be much of an outcry when it started to be phased out for a few years.

The areas that received students in one-way busing often had a ten to twenty year period where new development stopped and many people moved out of the county.

The Unigov helped stabilize the County for 30-40 years, the downtown has been able to be fully revitalized, but there are challenges now, as there has been a lot of development in the surrounding counties.

Regional government takes a long time to develop.

I think what is happening is that a lot of houses in the neighborhoods of Detroit are going to be abandoned, then gutted, and then demolished as their residents move to the suburbs for a better life. This cycle is going to create big challenges for all of us in the metro area.

[1KielsonDrive]

First, let's get something out of the way.
Cross district or non cross district bussing was one of the stupidest ideas that liberals ever came up with.

I should know, as I was a pawn in the failed experiment of school bussing in Detroit. It made me [[briefly, between seventh and tenth grade, when I outgrew the simplistic ideas involved) into a full blown conservative. My neighborhood school was already integrated. Within a few short years, all the white kids in my neighborhood were either gone or enrolled in private schools.

The money spent on busses and fossil fuels would have been much better spent on teachers, magnet programs and art/music classes..anything but aimlessly driving students to a school miles away that duplicates what is available at
a school blocks away.

That said, having one school board for the entire metro area or one national school system would be a much better idea...

As for Nolan Finley, let's not forget that we are talking about a person that has stated, with all sincerity , that Al Gore is the responsible for the demise of the American Auto Industry.

Why would anyone expect any solid ideas from such a conservocrite hack? Like many of his fellow cultists, Finley does a great "Blind Men and the Elephant" routine. He finds a couple facets of the multiple dysfunctions of Detroit and describes them as if they were the entire elephant.
The fact that Detroiters would vote for such knuckle dragging, criminally incompetent politicians like Monica Conyers, Barbara Rose Collins or Alonzo Bates proves that Detroiters are every bit as stupid as the many Americans who would vote for George W. Bush, Sarah Palin or DIck Armey.

Speaking of the Palins, where is Finley's denouncement of the illegitimate spawn of Palin's daughter?, ...that's the daughter raised [[we can assume) with her mother's touting of "abstinence education" whose illegitmate son is currently a recipient of "government health care"

Blaming bussing on Liberals is on of the stupidest comments you've ever made.

[bartock]

to quote Jason Whitlock.....you did the damn thang. Love it

I'll bet you a buck that Jason Whitlock would agree with Finley.

[R8RBOB]

I'll bet you a buck that Jason Whitlock would agree with Finley.

I agree with Finley but I know that Finley is narrow-minded. Finley is looking in from the outside talking about something that has been effect before he arrived from the Appalachians. If you read his editorial, you think this down-slide started back in 2008 but this has been ongoing since Blacks arrived in Detroit during the $5 days of Ford Motor Co.

[bailey]

Dear Poor People,

We, the rich folks of suburban Detroit would like to take a moment to chastise you.

Yes, sure, we started moving out of the city a long time ago. We did not want to live near you. We didn't want to have you move next to use and ruin the value of our homes. We did not want to pay taxes! We didn't want to pay for your children's educations. We did not want to pay for programs to ensure your young had access to food and shelter. Frankly, you disgust us, and we will do everything in our power to ensure that not a penny of our local taxes goes to improve your lives in any way.

Thankfully, we were able to start new governments out here, so we don't have to pay for you, see you, or deal with you at all, unless you come up to go to one of our "black" schools, or work at a fast food place or something. Get this straight: We are not interested in helping you at all, through taxes or any other way. It's nothing personal, but, poor people gross us out, you know?

But now we must take a moment to chastise you. Your city is a total dysfunctional hellhole! You're all poor slobs! You have zero education! Your families are all screwed up! You people are trash, and that's why we'll never lift a finger to help you.

Remember, you're not poor because of us. You're poor because of YOU!

Sincerely,

Wealthy Suburban People
Suburbia, Mich.
A Subsidized Project of the U.S. Government

Ah yes, there is that nuance and reflection that was lacking on this thread.

[Kevgoblue]

Forget 'multi-national' when was the last time any company located in Detroit out of something other than doing social good? [[as in Quicken and Compuware)

Social good? I didn't realize any "social good" came out of these.

Compuware came downtown in 2001 and was rewarded for it with a no-bid $75M contract with DPS. Peter Karmonos then proceeded to jump up and down and show his ass like a toddler when the contracts were re-bid and he didn't win all of them.

Quicken loans is in the midst of relocating downtown after years of discussion. And they will be doing so in a tax free status, both from the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan for the next 18 years.

You may call that social good. I call that for the good of the corporation.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Dear Poor People,

We, the rich folks of suburban Detroit would like to take a moment to chastise you.

Yes, sure, we started moving out of the city a long time ago. We did not want to live near you. We didn't want to have you move next to use and ruin the value of our homes. We did not want to pay taxes! We didn't want to pay for your children's educations. We did not want to pay for programs to ensure your young had access to food and shelter. Frankly, you disgust us, and we will do everything in our power to ensure that not a penny of our local taxes goes to improve your lives in any way.

Thankfully, we were able to start new governments out here, so we don't have to pay for you, see you, or deal with you at all, unless you come up to go to one of our "black" schools, or work at a fast food place or something. Get this straight: We are not interested in helping you at all, through taxes or any other way. It's nothing personal, but, poor people gross us out, you know?

But now we must take a moment to chastise you. Your city is a total dysfunctional hellhole! You're all poor slobs! You have zero education! Your families are all screwed up! You people are trash, and that's why we'll never lift a finger to help you.

Remember, you're not poor because of us. You're poor because of YOU!

Sincerely,

Wealthy Suburban People
Suburbia, Mich.
A Subsidized Project of the U.S. Government

Detroitnerd, save your time. Half of Detroiters are illiterate and can't read what you posted, the other half don't have internet access due to isolation and fear of technology [[or gasp, fear of communicating on any level with suburbanites). These illegitimate people don't care about themselves, their children, getting an education, a job, cleaning up their house, or anything. They're just a group of subhuman thugs. They deserve what they get, and so do their children. I'd throw these worthless people a crumb but they'd probably be too proud [[read: foolish) to take it. Screw Detroit and may it continue to rot!

[iheartthed]

Social good? I didn't realize any "social good" came out of these.

Compuware came downtown in 2001 and was rewarded for it with a no-bid $75M contract with DPS. Peter Karmonos then proceeded to jump up and down and show his ass like a toddler when the contracts were re-bid and he didn't win all of them.

Quicken loans is in the midst of relocating downtown after years of discussion. And they will be doing so in a tax free status, both from the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan for the next 18 years.

You may call that social good. I call that for the good of the corporation.

IIRC, Quicken also got their choice of 4 properties to build a HQ on, one of which they purchased for $1 [[and has no immediate plans to build on). The buildings that once sat on each of those properties had also been demolished by the city.

[bailey]

Social good? I didn't realize any "social good" came out of these.

Compuware came downtown in 2001 and was rewarded for it with a no-bid $75M contract with DPS. Peter Karmonos then proceeded to jump up and down and show his ass like a toddler when the contracts were re-bid and he didn't win all of them.

Quicken loans is in the midst of relocating downtown after years of discussion. And they will be doing so in a tax free status, both from the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan for the next 18 years.

You may call that social good. I call that for the good of the corporation.

You;re right... I should have said "claiming" to be a social good. Both Karmanos and Gilbert have dislocated their arms patting themselves on the back about investing in Detroit.

When was the last time a company moved to Detroit because it was the best place to set up shop and not the one that came up with the most incentives or wasn't the the place for the owner to pretend to some noblesse oblige [[usually the 'oblige' part is not made up of tax subsidies from the bankrupt city you're ostensibly helping)?

[Bearinabox]

All I can say is, Nolan, if you're serious about this regional government thing, you're just the sort of smug, self-righteous asshole we need to get this idea off the ground. Now, is there any way you could help get Brooks on board? Take him golfing or something. Maybe he'll listen to you.

[R8RBOB]

Detroitnerd, save your time. Half of Detroiters are illiterate and can't read what you posted, the other half don't have internet access due to isolation and fear of technology [[or gasp, fear of communicating on any level with suburbanites). These illegitimate people don't care about themselves, their children, getting an education, a job, cleaning up their house, or anything. They're just a group of subhuman thugs. They deserve what they get, and so do their children. I'd throw these worthless people a crumb but they'd probably be too proud [[read: foolish) to take it. Screw Detroit and may it continue to rot!

You sound bitter. Did those subhuman thugs hurt you by shunning your help?
Fear of technology!!!! How about they can't afford the high-ass Comcast bill.
Since I don't belong in the half of Detroiters who can't read and I can't be with the other half who don't have the Internet and distrust suburban residents since I have had a cable modem since I returned from California six years ago and I work with suburbanites...in Birmingham, what group do I belong in?

[iheartthed]

what group do I belong in?

The group that doesn't realize satire, lol.

[swingline]

There's nothing wrong with anything Mr. Finley stated in his column. Detroit's mostly black and too often poor residents don't get a pass on inconvenient truths just because they're black and perhaps poor. Suburbanites [[who may happen to be white) are not disqualified from discussing the problems either, especially because many Detroiters like to point to the suburbs and "outsiders" as the main source of Detroit's problems. If one is going to get blamed for the problems [[and a good chunk of the blame is deserved), he/she is entitled to frankly and honestly discuss the issues. It's not racist, classist, hubris or arrogant to say what Mr. Finley has stated in his column. Black and poor Detroiters bear much responsibility for the three I's identified in Mr. Finley's column. There's no denying that these things are problems. Black and poor Detroiters should take on some of the responsibility for fixing these problems too.

Mr. Finley's column ended too soon though [[and given that he's the editor, it's not like any of his ideas got edited out). The column could have achieved some true distinction if Mr. Finley continued to discuss a solution or two. But, more to the point, Mr. Finley could have and should have admitted out loud [[for the benefit of his Republican friends and readers) that Detroit's problems, not to mention Michigan's and the US', will not be solved through cutting taxes. But of course it's not really possible for a Republican to admit this financial, economic and simple mathematical truth. Mr. Finley's courage to discuss tough social issues unfortunately doesn't extend to having the courage to advise his Republican readers of this inescapable fact. But no indeed. Taxes don't solve anything don't you know. Mr. Finley would lose his prescious conservative bonafides if he said anything else. He is satisfied to perpetuate the myth that if only we could get big bad government out of the way, allow that infallible institution called the free market to do its thing, and get black folk and poor folk to assume some personal responsibility, Detroit will begin a comeback.

[R8RBOB]

The group that doesn't realize satire, lol.

Thanks.........long day

[R8RBOB]

There's nothing wrong with anything Mr. Finley stated in his column. Detroit's mostly black and too often poor residents don't get a pass on inconvenient truths just because they're black and perhaps poor. Suburbanites [[who may happen to be white) are not disqualified from discussing the problems either, especially because many Detroiters like to point to the suburbs and "outsiders" as the main source of Detroit's problems. If one is going to get blamed for the problems [[and a good chunk of the blame is deserved), he/she is entitled to frankly and honestly discuss the issues. It's not racist, classist, hubris or arrogant to say what Mr. Finley has stated in his column. Black and poor Detroiters bear much responsibility for the three I's identified in Mr. Finley's column. There's no denying that these things are problems. Black and poor Detroiters should take on some of the responsibility for fixing these problems too.

Mr. Finley's column ended too soon though [[and given that he's the editor, it's not like any of his ideas got edited out). The column could have achieved some true distinction if Mr. Finley continued to discuss a solution or two. But, more to the point, Mr. Finley could have and should have admitted out loud [[for the benefit of his Republican friends and readers) that Detroit's problems, not to mention Michigan's and the US', will not be solved through cutting taxes. But of course it's not really possible for a Republican to admit this financial, economic and simple mathematical truth. Mr. Finley's courage to discuss tough social issues unfortunately doesn't extend to having the courage to advise his Republican readers of this inescapable fact. But no indeed. Taxes don't solve anything don't you know. Mr. Finley would lose his prescious conservative bonafides if he said anything else. He is satisfied to perpetuate the myth that if only we could get big bad government out of the way, allow that infallible institution called the free market to do its thing, and get black folk and poor folk to assume some personal responsibility, Detroit will begin a comeback.

I would have like for Nolan to make a series of the The Three I's. Three separate postings on "what, how, why" and how we can come back from this. He could have given a detail explanation on what happened to Detroit that could bring about the three I's. How the three I's came about and why the three I's continue to be a way of life in Detroit. That was my reason for bringing out the "what, how and why." Finley posted a hit piece that exposed the problems that plagues Detroit but he threw out bones with no meat because the dogs had already ripped off the meat.

[iheartthed]

There's nothing wrong with anything Mr. Finley stated in his column. Detroit's mostly black and too often poor residents don't get a pass on inconvenient truths just because they're black and perhaps poor. Suburbanites [[who may happen to be white) are not disqualified from discussing the problems either, especially because many Detroiters like to point to the suburbs and "outsiders" as the main source of Detroit's problems. If one is going to get blamed for the problems [[and a good chunk of the blame is deserved), he/she is entitled to frankly and honestly discuss the issues. It's not racist, classist, hubris or arrogant to say what Mr. Finley has stated in his column. Black and poor Detroiters bear much responsibility for the three I's identified in Mr. Finley's column. There's no denying that these things are problems. Black and poor Detroiters should take on some of the responsibility for fixing these problems too.

Mr. Finley's column ended too soon though [[and given that he's the editor, it's not like any of his ideas got edited out). The column could have achieved some true distinction if Mr. Finley continued to discuss a solution or two. But, more to the point, Mr. Finley could have and should have admitted out loud [[for the benefit of his Republican friends and readers) that Detroit's problems, not to mention Michigan's and the US', will not be solved through cutting taxes. But of course it's not really possible for a Republican to admit this financial, economic and simple mathematical truth. Mr. Finley's courage to discuss tough social issues unfortunately doesn't extend to having the courage to advise his Republican readers of this inescapable fact. But no indeed. Taxes don't solve anything don't you know. Mr. Finley would lose his prescious conservative bonafides if he said anything else. He is satisfied to perpetuate the myth that if only we could get big bad government out of the way, allow that infallible institution called the free market to do its thing, and get black folk and poor folk to assume some personal responsibility, Detroit will begin a comeback.

At least when Mitch Albom did this two weeks ago he wasn't disingenuous enough to say that poor black people are responsible for what has become of the city of Detroit.

If you want to discuss personal accountability, then discuss that. But don't try to draw some false causal relationship between the state of Detroit, and the social climate of poor black Americans. That's just stupid. And it does nothing to better the situation of either poor black people or the city of Detroit.

What is Mr. Finley's answer for why Flint and Saginaw both look more fucked up than Detroit? Neither of those cities has a black super-majority...

[Crumbled_pavement]

I would have like for Nolan to make a series of the The Three I's. Three separate postings on "what, how, why" and how we can come back from this. He could have given a detail explanation on what happened to Detroit that could bring about the three I's. How the three I's came about and why the three I's continue to be a way of life in Detroit. That was my reason for bringing out the "what, how and why." Finley posted a hit piece that exposed the problems that plagues Detroit but he threw out bones with no meat because the dogs had already ripped off the meat.

So what you're saying is that it's not enough for a doctor say a patient has cancer and needs to seek treatment? You're saying you'd also like an explanation of how they developed cancer? C'mon, society doesn't have time for that. The explanation is far too complex and time consuming for a society with a very short attention span.

[R8RBOB]

The explanation is far too complex and time consuming for a society with a very short attention span.

Does that includes yourself?

[Crumbled_pavement]

Does that includes yourself?

We're all in this microwave society together. We don't have time for the long story. We just slap a band aid on our problems and then we're on our way.