Nolan Finley's Sunday editorial

[shovelhead]

Isolation is a problem.

We should enact cross-district school busing. Want to see the Detroit Schools get quickly up to par?
That would guarantee it. Then it would no longer be "their" problem. It isn't the fault of the kids.

Plus, busing has the added benefit of giving kids exposure to each other so they appreciate diversity instead of running away from it and insulting it.

Would Finley and his supporters get behind my idea? Or is it better as NIMBY?

Will it then become another "war" such as when there was talk of regionalization of the water and sewage system? And outside representation on the DIA, Detroit Historical Museum, the Zoo? Remember "stealing out jewels?" There is a certain pride with city institutions that residents have, however tarnished that they are. Are Detroit residents willing to give up control of these to a regional body? What about police and fire services? Again, a regional board making decisions regarding personell, districting, SOPs. Not to mention labor contracts, pension funding and administration, not to mention benefits payable to those persons collecting at this time.
A bid to nulify all these agreements and place them under regional administration would be a nightmare for decades in the court system. Not to mention the fact of regionalization of the tri-county area, how fair would it be for a resident of Fenton which is closer to Flint [[and part of that area in Genesee County) to have their municipal services and schools governed by boards that far distanced both geographically and mentally? Remember, there are people in these communities that never go to Detroit for any reason due to geographics, irregardless of availibilty for their needs, whatever they may be. And it unrealistic that suddenly a regionalization would cause these people to overnight move closer to the core area, wherever that may be.

Just sayin...

[barnesfoto]

First, let's get something out of the way.
Cross district or non cross district bussing was one of the stupidest ideas that liberals ever came up with.

I should know, as I was a pawn in the failed experiment of school bussing in Detroit. It made me [[briefly, between seventh and tenth grade, when I outgrew the simplistic ideas involved) into a full blown conservative. My neighborhood school was already integrated. Within a few short years, all the white kids in my neighborhood were either gone or enrolled in private schools.

The money spent on busses and fossil fuels would have been much better spent on teachers, magnet programs and art/music classes..anything but aimlessly driving students to a school miles away that duplicates what is available at
a school blocks away.

That said, having one school board for the entire metro area or one national school system would be a much better idea...

As for Nolan Finley, let's not forget that we are talking about a person that has stated, with all sincerity , that Al Gore is the responsible for the demise of the American Auto Industry.

Why would anyone expect any solid ideas from such a conservocrite hack? Like many of his fellow cultists, Finley does a great "Blind Men and the Elephant" routine. He finds a couple facets of the multiple dysfunctions of Detroit and describes them as if they were the entire elephant.
The fact that Detroiters would vote for such knuckle dragging, criminally incompetent politicians like Monica Conyers, Barbara Rose Collins or Alonzo Bates proves that Detroiters are every bit as stupid as the many Americans who would vote for George W. Bush, Sarah Palin or DIck Armey.

Speaking of the Palins, where is Finley's denouncement of the illegitimate spawn of Palin's daughter?, ...that's the daughter raised [[we can assume) with her mother's touting of "abstinence education" whose illegitmate son is currently a recipient of "government health care"

[Hermod]

That idea has been tried once before.

It crashed faster than the Hindenburg.

While it was still under discussion, I know a few people who sold their homes in central and southern Macomb County and moved to Imlay City

[sumas]

Thank you Lowell and Barnes for bringing balance to this thread. Finley's editorial was so narrow and hateful. It's easy to sling arrows. Real people pitch in to make a difference.

He is just barn storming to whoop suburban circulation for the shill rag his paper has become.

[R8RBOB]

First, let's get something out of the way.
Cross district or non cross district bussing was one of the stupidest ideas that liberals ever came up with.

I should know, as I was a pawn in the failed experiment of school bussing in Detroit. It made me [[briefly, between seventh and tenth grade, when I outgrew the simplistic ideas involved) into a full blown conservative. My neighborhood school was already integrated. Within a few short years, all the white kids in my neighborhood were either gone or enrolled in private schools.

The money spent on busses and fossil fuels would have been much better spent on teachers, magnet programs and art/music classes..anything but aimlessly driving students to a school miles away that duplicates what is available at
a school blocks away.

That said, having one school board for the entire metro area or one national school system would be a much better idea...

As for Nolan Finley, let's not forget that we are talking about a person that has stated, with all sincerity , that Al Gore is the responsible for the demise of the American Auto Industry.

Why would anyone expect any solid ideas from such a conservocrite hack? Like many of his fellow cultists, Finley does a great "Blind Men and the Elephant" routine. He finds a couple facets of the multiple dysfunctions of Detroit and describes them as if they were the entire elephant.
The fact that Detroiters would vote for such knuckle dragging, criminally incompetent politicians like Monica Conyers, Barbara Rose Collins or Alonzo Bates proves that Detroiters are every bit as stupid as the many Americans who would vote for George W. Bush, Sarah Palin or DIck Armey.

Speaking of the Palins, where is Finley's denouncement of the illegitimate spawn of Palin's daughter?, ...that's the daughter raised [[we can assume) with her mother's touting of "abstinence education" whose illegitmate son is currently a recipient of "government health care"

When I think of Finley's talk of regional government I think back to the beginning of Gladiator when Maximus is talking to Quintus and the emissary that he sent to discuss surrender to the Germanic tribes comes back riding on his horse without his head and Quintus says, "People should know when they are conquered" and Maximus says, "Would you, would I"

Finley laid out the need for regional control because he like others in the region realized that Detroit is conquered. "Two-thirds of Detroit residents don't have a high school diploma. Half are functionally illiterate. Only about 10 percent graduated from college." If you are a fat cat millionaire from Bloomfield Hills or a hillbilly GOP hack who would rather own Somerset instead of Washington Blvd., why would you need to create a regional government with Detroit. If 66% percent of the population does not have a high school diploma and 50% can't read or write then they are conquered as Quintus told Maximus of the Germanic tribes.

[DetroitPole]

In addition to what Brush and Lowell said, Finley makes no mention, conveniently, that:

"44 percent of adults in Michigan read at a fourth-grade level or below."
http://www.thesouthendnews.com/news/...nents-1.383573

There was an article about this in the Free Press a while ago.

This goes back to holding Detroit to the standard and pretending all is well and shit doesn't stink in the suburbs and the rest of Michigan, when in reality we are all dying.

Finley is the archetype of SE Michigander who screams and yells about how great life is in where they are compared to that shithole of Detroit, while underwater with their mortgage, their local government is flat busted broke, they can't find a job anywhere, and their kids move off to livable regions of the country and they are somehow inexplicably left wondering why.

[gnome]

Our President, Mr. Obama, told the Iranians, "Our hand is open, if you will just unclench yours." Meaning that the world is ready and willing to welcome you back into the community of nations if you chill on the bellicose behavior.

If you'd just unclench your fist of fear. Fear of being shunted aside, fear of the other, fear of being told "you ain't doing it right". Fear of being dissed.

Except Detroit has fucked things up for so long, it doesn't know how it is supposed to work. Even when examples abound.

The Zoo ... hmm anyone remember the condition of that place? Now the place works. They are bringing in new and innovative displays and events all the time. It is far from perfect but perfect from afar, and it shows promise that publicly owned assests can thrive if fiefdoms are torndown.

Need another example? How about Eastern Market? Once a place with a bit too much character, and no accountablity ... into a pretty clean little place. New sheds, geo-thermal heating, new vendors and products; all examples of fresh thinking applied to a dingy city jewel.

Not convinced? Ok, how about the golf courses? Again, an example of creative thinking applied to a faded asset and the result is almost a text-book example of win-win.

When outside help has been allowed to help, usually the results have been positive. Not always, but on balance that is the case. However, when Detroit turtles and refuses help because it is scared of being dissed by the other, it sits and rots.

When appologists for Detroit point their blood soaked fingers at other cities and say "See they have it too!" They serve to keep the agents of filth in control. When they pull out tired tropes to shield the real from reality, they only serve to assuage their own egos and not constructively deal with what is real.

It is real that children are having children at an alarming rate. That is the truth. If that isn't alarming, you have a problem.

The same with education or the lack therein. You understand that a completely disfunctional school board was lead by a functionally illiterate man and he was defended by the agents of don't diss me on the basis that he had a charming manner and smooth stroking style.

... as my time is short, I will leave it there. But for those here who dislike Mr. Finley, you might want to conceed that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Crumbled_pavement]

If poor uneducated unskilled welfare receiving Detroiters would just accept the help of the benevolent suburbs all of this would come to an end. The suburbs are here to help you become human again, yet you shun them. Silly, stupid Detroiters.

[iheartthed]

Pure comedy.

[iheartthed]

He hit the nail on the head with this one...I agree with him 100%.

The one place where your protectionist sermon might actually deserve to be the topic of discussion... and you "agree with him 100%". Interesting.

Just so we're all on the same page, when Nolan Finley says "Detroit" here he really means "black people" right? I get my code speak mixed up sometimes.

[Ravine]

OK, I "get" that most of you dislike Finley. I don't much like him, myself.
But making him out to be nothing more than a Big Meanie who wrote cruel & hurtful things and should be ashamed of himself is foolish.
I read the piece. The truth hurts. The three I's he cited are, in my opinion, indeed major maladies which are bringing the city further down and becoming worse by the minute.
Have the emotional reaction that we will, but how much of what he wrote is utterly false?
Is it false, to say that a city with a befouled public school system, and an abnormally-high percentage of adults who lack a high-school diploma, has an automatic disadvantage when it comes to attracting new businesses to set up shop here?
Is it false, to say that the appallingly large fraternity of Dead-Beat Detroit Dads has, thanks to their nauseating & unforgivable irresponsibility, gone a long way toward creating a festering pile of social ills which, as well as feeding into each other, have a strong tendency to be passed down to the next generation?
And isolation? Isolation, indeed! Why is it, that when Monica Conyers utters a reference to folks who "don't look like us," we growl about what an ignorant cow she is, but when Finley names that type of isolationism as a debilitating trait, we don't want to hear that, either.
Cheerleaders are nice to have around, but they are usually on the sidelines, and both the winning teams and the losing teams have 'em.
And, the "Well, get out there and do something about it" song, while featuring noble & honorable lyrics, gets old, too; I think it's great, when folks become actively engaged-- talking and writing does not count-- in trying to improve a community and up-grade its image, but truly, if more people would just do what they are supposed to do [[finish schooling, take responsibility for their kids, focus some of the energy which, currently, so many spend on trying to devise sleazy hustles & petty crimes and expend it on working for a goddam living and paying some fuckin' taxes, y'know, boring loser pursuits like those,) we wouldn't need any self-styled Urban Messiahs, would we?

[barnesfoto]

Damn straight, Ravine....paying taxes...That's one of the costs of living in a civilized society. But Nolan Finley's cult keeps telling us we need to cut taxes, and you wonder why any of us scoff at his message. And please explain the difference between absent fathers in Detroit, and the absent father of the Palin grandson, a grandson who last we heard, is getting by on that "government health care" that Finley and the sick cult of Americanus Republicanus is dead set against.

[iheartthed]

OK, I "get" that most of you dislike Finley. I don't much like him, myself.
But making him out to be nothing more than a Big Meanie who wrote cruel & hurtful things and should be ashamed of himself is foolish.
I read the piece. The truth hurts. The three I's he cited are, in my opinion, indeed major maladies which are bringing the city further down and becoming worse by the minute.
Have the emotional reaction that we will, but how much of what he wrote is utterly false?
Is it false, to say that a city with a befouled public school system, and an abnormally-high percentage of adults who lack a high-school diploma, has an automatic disadvantage when it comes to attracting new businesses to set up shop here?

Do you really think a multinational company looking to locate in Detroit draws the line along 8 Mile and Telegraph roads and says "okay if the people within this arbitrary boundary don't meet this arbitrary level of education then we will go to Troy?"

Cuz that's not how I see it. But if it makes sense to you then okay.

[SWMAP]

I really, really don't care about Palin's grandson's father - he is one stupid example and he should not be used as an excusefor an entire City. I do care that huge numbers of properties came up for sale in this tax sale last week. And huge numbers in 2009 and before that 2008 [[remember those newspaper inserts listing them that were about 25 pages in small print? Those people lost their houses because they did not pay taxes. There is a culture here that says you don't have to pay taxes, obviously. It has gotten worse and now it will continue to worsen. Detroit is on a trajectory spiraling downward. We need new bumper stickers that say: "I lift Detroit in prayer - AND I PAY MY TAXES!" I don't care how poor you are - scrape it together; double up. The ministers need to tell their congregations that property taxes come before the tithe.

[bartock]

Damn straight, Ravine....paying taxes...That's one of the costs of living in a civilized society. But Nolan Finley's cult keeps telling us we need to cut taxes, and you wonder why any of us scoff at his message. And please explain the difference between absent fathers in Detroit, and the absent father of the Palin grandson, a grandson who last we heard, is getting by on that "government health care" that Finley and the sick cult of Americanus Republicanus is dead set against.

You've now mentioned Palin twice, and Finley's cult? He's a quasi-conservative opinion maker for a local newspaper writing about local things. Wasn't aware that he had legions of people following him. Or, if you were referring to the Republican Party, which you call a "sick cult," then I feel bad for you. I don't pick parties, but I'd sure be afraid to get out of bed in the morning if I believed a hundred million people living in my county were part of a "sick cult." Just a tad excessive.

[bailey]

Do you really think a multinational company looking to locate in Detroit draws the line along 8 Mile and Telegraph roads and says "okay if the people within this arbitrary boundary don't meet this arbitrary level of education then we will go to Troy?"

Cuz that's not how I see it. But if it makes sense to you then okay.

No they look and ask which place is going to cost them more. A lot of that cost is derived from dealing with a dysfunctional population.

Forget 'multi-national' when was the last time any company located in Detroit out of something other than doing social good? [[as in Quicken and Compuware) Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where have the movie studios [[such as they are) opened? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where did SAAB set up shop? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where does Target open a super store? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where does virtually ANY national chain [[excluding fast food) open its local franchise?

[Ravine]

Do you really think a multinational company looking to locate in Detroit draws the line along 8 Mile and Telegraph roads and says "okay if the people within this arbitrary boundary don't meet this arbitrary level of education then we will go to Troy?"

Cuz that's not how I see it. But if it makes sense to you then okay.

I wrote what I really think, and my broad & general way of phrasing it was intentional. Your narrowing it down to such a specific example may drive home a point which you are trying to make, and perhaps that's your way of "asking a statement," but you get to claim that one; it doesn't have much relationship to my comment.
So leave me out of it. Making a point of your own, presenting it as some kind of inverse of my point, and then smugly adding, "But if it makes sense to you then okay," is a bunch of bullshit.
When I log a post into this forum, I write exactly that which I mean to express. Any resulting [[and seemingly inevitable) mal-formed extrapolations of, or inaccurate inferences from, my remarks are strictly the property of their authors, and I long ago figured out that engaging in the DY-trademark back&forths, wherein folks feel compelled to explain, re-explain, and over-explain themselves, is a "fool's errand," so I say what I mean-- once-- and move along.

[Det_ard]

What do you mean?

[Novine]

Finley proposing a regional government? It's regionalism the boogeyman of conservatives everywhere? He dropped it at the end of his rant like a copywriter slipped it in without him knowing. But that's the only "news" about his editorial. The rest is the typical conservative rehash about the underclass of American cities.

[iheartthed]

No they look and ask which place is going to cost them more. A lot of that cost is derived from dealing with a dysfunctional population.

Forget 'multi-national' when was the last time any company located in Detroit out of something other than doing social good? [[as in Quicken and Compuware) Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where have the movie studios [[such as they are) opened? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where did SAAB set up shop? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where does Target open a super store? Given a choice between suburb and Detroit, where does virtually ANY national chain [[excluding fast food) open its local franchise?

Actually... That wasn't my point.

My point is that Detroit doesn't exist in a vacuum. If companies aren't locating to Detroit because of education levels, and personal accountability [[that's what he was really trying to say), then why are they also not locating to Troy or Auburn Hills or any other jobs center in southeast Michigan? When Metro Detroit is competing against Chicago or Seattle or Dallas for jobs, these companies aren't cherry-picking stats about the city's population.

[iheartthed]

I wrote what I really think, and my broad & general way of phrasing it was intentional. Your narrowing it down to such a specific example may drive home a point which you are trying to make, and perhaps that's your way of "asking a statement," but you get to claim that one; it doesn't have much relationship to my comment.
So leave me out of it. Making a point of your own, presenting it as some kind of inverse of my point, and then smugly adding, "But if it makes sense to you then okay," is a bunch of bullshit.
When I log a post into this forum, I write exactly that which I mean to express. Any resulting [[and seemingly inevitable) mal-formed extrapolations of, or inaccurate inferences from, my remarks are strictly the property of their authors, and I long ago figured out that engaging in the DY-trademark back&forths, wherein folks feel compelled to explain, re-explain, and over-explain themselves, is a "fool's errand," so I say what I mean-- once-- and move along.

You also write some pretty long ass sentences. Which is usually indicative of an author who has nothing useful to say.

[R8RBOB]

Finley proposing a regional government? It's regionalism the boogeyman of conservatives everywhere? He dropped it at the end of his rant like a copywriter slipped it in without him knowing. But that's the only "news" about his editorial. The rest is the typical conservative rehash about the underclass of American cities.

I caught that which is why I posted my Quintus comment about when the people know that they are already conquered. Finley slip-in about regional government was "his cure" for all that infects Detroit.

To those who wish to defend Finley, know this, Finley like other columnists have their editorials syndicated. Finley's hit piece is not just in the Detroit News, it is all over and if you are Joe Blow in Cheyenne, Wyoming and you are reading this one-sided point of view of the citizens of Detroit, your eyeballs are popping out. I have no problem in what he said, I have a problem in what he didn't say: what created this disaster!!!

[barnesfoto]

He's a quasi-conservative opinion maker for a local newspaper writing about local things

Finley is an obvious follower of the ideas of the previously mentioned party that advocates tax cuts and keeps invoking Al Gore. Finley himself has written an editorial blaming Al Gore for the demise of the American Auto Industry. If you are the "Independent" that you claim to be, that might strike you as a tad simplistic, no?
Al Gore does not live in the Metro Area, so Finley's columns go beyond local.
I do give him credit for noticing the demise of Detroit; it's hard not to notice. As for the Republican Party, they have spent the last decades promoting policies of endless tax cuts, endless deregulation and endless war. At least two of those policies are complete failures, have led to the current state of the economy and many of us would argue that all 3 of them are.
Do the leaders of the GOP admit their mistakes? After all, are they [[and Finley) not pointing out a collective lack of responsibility? And yet their message this year seems to be this: Muslims! NO! Muslims! Socialism! NO! ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!
They take not one iota of responsibility for their trillion dollar failed war in Iraq. They take not one iota of responsibility for their failed policies of deregulation.
Their last presidential candidate stood on a stage in front of the party and made fun of "community activism" or getting people to organize and start solving their own problems.
That is not the message of a political party; it's the message of a cult.

If one is going to raise the issue of fatherless children living off the government, one better be prepared to discuss fatherless children in one's own circle of believers, or is that too much to ask?

The ignorance of Detroiters is just as troubling as the ignorance of the rest of Americans, and I'm tired of people acting as if one group of people is somehow "more ignorant".

The acceptance by Detroiters of charlatan political "leaders" is just as troubling as the acceptance by Americans of charlatan political leaders.
Now, if Finley and his fellow travelers want to propose some sort of National Solution, be it CCC or WPA style programs or even a military occupation, then he'll have my ears.

[bartock]

Finley is an obvious follower of the ideas of the previously mentioned party that advocates tax cuts and keeps invoking Al Gore. Finley himself has written an editorial blaming Al Gore for the demise of the American Auto Industry. If you are the "Independent" that you claim to be, that might strike you as a tad simplistic, no?
Al Gore does not live in the Metro Area, so Finley's columns go beyond local.
I do give him credit for noticing the demise of Detroit; it's hard not to notice. As for the Republican Party, they have spent the last decades promoting policies of endless tax cuts, endless deregulation and endless war. At least two of those policies are complete failures, have led to the current state of the economy and many of us would argue that all 3 of them are.
Do the leaders of the GOP admit their mistakes? After all, are they [[and Finley) not pointing out a collective lack of responsibility? And yet their message this year seems to be this: Muslims! NO! Muslims! Socialism! NO!
That is not the message of a political party; it's the message of a cult.
If one is going to raise the issue of fatherless children living off the government, one better be prepared to discuss fatherless children in one's own circle of believers, or is that too much to ask?

The ignorance of Detroiters is just as troubling as the ignorance of the rest of Americans, and I'm tired of people acting as if one group of people is somehow "more ignorant".

Now, if Finley and his fellow travelers want to propose some sort of National Solution, be it CCC or WPA style programs or even a military occupation, then he'll have my ears.

What is in bold is entirely my point.

[pffft]

R&RBOB,
Finley's column is not syndicated. Never assume.