Detroit Neighborhoods--Back in the Day

**jcole** · September-20-10, 01:38 PM

only know of the two churches [[still standing) I mentioned; both on 7 Mile, a few blocks east of Woodward [[but the addresses all say WEST 7 Mile ??? Maybe because they are WEST of I-75?)

I believe in that area, John R designates the split from east side to west side.

**jcole** · September-20-10, 01:42 PM

I would say this was a "blue collar" community in the 40s. I believe many families had parents living with them who were immigrants from "the old country" who still spoke their native language. Why did we lose this reverence for speaking a second language . . .

As to a reverence for a 'second language': my grandparents were immigrants from Austria-Hungary and they forbid their children from speaking their native tongue; they moved to America to be Americans and they didn't allow any of the 7 kids to speak anything but English, even the ones born in the old country.
Same went for my Polish grandmother on my dad's side.

**Lt. Dan Bassett** · September-20-10, 05:09 PM

Well S[[D)B, I suspect the little girl you played with from across the street would be my cousin, Joan. She would be close to 70 years old now. A few years ago she and her hubby moved to the old country. They live in a 600-year-old house in Split on the Adriatic. Maybe you also had contact with my other cousin John [[Clarkie) -- him being the same vintage and probably was around Grandma's house in the '40s too. I'll contact fam to see who has pix still.

ferntruth · September-20-10, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

As to a reverence for a 'second language': my grandparents were immigrants from Austria-Hungary and they forbid their children from speaking their native tongue; they moved to America to be Americans and they didn't allow any of the 7 kids to speak anything but English, even the ones born in the old country.
Same went for my Polish grandmother on my dad's side.

My family had a similar experience. My grandparents were French-Canadian immigrants, and my fathers only language until the age of 13 was French. Once my family came to the US, French was not spoken in the house until my Dad and his siblings were adults and by then were fluent in English.

Seems this was common in many immigrant families at one time - I wonder why it changed? In my family, we're all very proud to be of F-C heritage, but my grandparents thought it important that their family be able to speak English in order to fully function in American society.

As a boy, it was cool to watch my aunts and uncles, dad and grandparents converse so fluently in French. Sadly, none of my generation have learned the language.

**kathy2trips** · September-20-10, 11:30 PM

Here's a link to Fernhill Avenue from the R.L. Polk Detroit City Directory 1928-29. It starts at the lower right hand column of the page. "Jos. Oppo, Gro" [[grocer) was at 520 Fernhill. Great memory refresher sometimes.

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · September-21-10, 09:59 AM

Maybe you also had contact with my other cousin John [[Clarkie) -- him being the same vintage and probably was around Grandma's house in the '40s too. I'll contact fam to see who has pix still.

Though vague, my memory is that there were "children" visiting that I played with.

Another memory -- on Halloween, 5-6 of us would go together as far as five or six blocks away. Nothing to fear. I even remember a few times we took chaulk and printed "Kilroy Was Here" on the steps. Shamless delinquents that we were!

And there was an old lady who lived at the end of the block on the side of 456, we called her "the crazy lady". I believe her yard was fenced.

Now I are her.

**mikeinmotown** · September-21-10, 12:36 PM

My friends Father and Grandfather were both ministers at the Lutheran on 7 mile near Woodward. The family name is Burnthal. His Grandfather actually built the church and was the first minister. I lived on Margaret W. in the late 70's early 80's. I drove around the area this week and was shocked how bad it became. All of the businesses on John R are gone. Such a shame. On the other hand, The Dakota Inn is still going strong. I will be there this Saturday for Octoberfest.

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · September-22-10, 07:52 PM

Mike --

Re the Epiphany Lutheran Church -- I have several bulletins they sent me from a few years ago. I was told "Bunky" Knudsen put up the money to build that structure; maybe you know whether that's true or not.

Re Dakota Inn -- HOW GREAT that it is still there. My husband and I went there back in the 1960s-70s. There was a great old guy, Basil, who sang there. His son sang also.

I have a wonderful picture of this. I will search my records [[I do genealogy and write -- my piles have piles) and see if this site explains how to upload a picture. This may take a day or two. Keep checking back.

Later,
d

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · September-22-10, 08:29 PM

TA-DA!

Here is the Dakota Inn Picture with Basil and his son. Taken sometime in the '70s, I think. Enjoy!

**terryh** · September-23-10, 02:07 PM

Boy do I have some unpleasant -disagreeable membories of THAT hood. In 96 I had the misfortune of living on Appoline and then on Penrose under some very unfortunate circumstances. I remember a fifty-something, bald street tough white guy named Butch[[and his weaslish junkie boy-toy Jim) who was born in that neighborhood and had pleasant memories of the neighborhood as it was up until around the late seventies when it started a downward spiral into blight, bleekness and despair.The few whites who remained were shifty and shady. It was Anarchy. A car plowed into a dank and dirty mom and pop store on Bauman, there were numersous firebombings, drug related stickups and the occasional ineffective raid in which a drug dealer would move into the home several hours after having been raided. An off duty Chaldean cab driver and his wife offered me a ride out of concern for my safety is one of only a few acts of kindness I can recall. The State Fair neighborhood is-was Hell on earth.

**Lt. Dan Bassett** · September-23-10, 10:00 PM

. . . and henceforth and back, known as "Little Beirut."
On a lighter note -- a little-known fact. Because Elmore Leonard's researcher is from this hood, he front loaded a phony address on State Fair as the house used to hold the kidnap victim in his 1978 novel "The Switch."
QUOTE:
"5
Richard Edgar Monk lived at 1035 State Fair, the street that ran east of Woodward Avenue along the south edge of the Michigan State Fairgrounds. The house faced a chain-link fence and was directly across from one of the gates where they used to bring in the horse-trailers during the racing season . . . . The house was a frame crackerbox with a pair of dormer windows sticking out of the roof and no style at all until Richard fixed up the front with imitation ledgerock . . . . " [[great story, you should read it!)
In real life, today, the house with ledgerock that faces the gate is right next door to the entrance of Theatre Bizarre. If 1035 existed it would be farther east on State Fair, almost at Charleston.

**Bigb23** · September-24-10, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Hmmmm....I would guess Etherington and Griffith are English and Irish or Scottish, respectively. Maynard as English or maybe a French corruption.

My grandpa's block of Parker Ave. in the 1930s was really cool. In the 1930 Census there were Italians, his family was from Tennessee, French-Canadians, Germans, Austrians, Irish, alot of East Coasters, and English. What a mix!

Don't forget the Murrey's [[?) on the 20000 block of Keating. They were from Scotland and spoke with a brogue so thick, my Irish ears didn't understand.
Just down the street from the Keyhole lounge.

**jcole** · September-24-10, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by terryh

Boy do I have some unpleasant -disagreeable membories of THAT hood. In 96 I had the misfortune of living on Appoline and then on Penrose under some very unfortunate circumstances. I remember a fifty-something, bald street tough white guy named Butch[[and his weaslish junkie boy-toy Jim) who was born in that neighborhood and had pleasant memories of the neighborhood as it was up until around the late seventies when it started a downward spiral into blight, bleekness and despair.The few whites who remained were shifty and shady. It was Anarchy. A car plowed into a dank and dirty mom and pop store on Bauman, there were numersous firebombings, drug related stickups and the occasional ineffective raid in which a drug dealer would move into the home several hours after having been raided. An off duty Chaldean cab driver and his wife offered me a ride out of concern for my safety is one of only a few acts of kindness I can recall. The State Fair neighborhood is-was Hell on earth.

Terry, I lived on the corner of Fernhill and Bauman in '83/'84 in less than savory circumstances, too. Even then, it was a horrible area to live in. I shared that house with several other people and we didn't leave it alone even during the day. I saw more than one car on fire outside my side door where they had been dumped and torched. One night, I heard someone banging on the back door screaming and went to answer it; one of my roommates stopped me, telling me it was the hooker from next door trying to get away from her pimp, again. The various ethnicities in the area didn't always get along, so there were nights that we turned the lights off and sat in the dark while they shot it out in the street in front of the house. The party store was there then, too, and it was definitely unsafe to go in there without someone with you. We had a Doberman and a sawed off shotgun for protection, and even then, I wasn't too comfortable.
Thank God I was only there for about 6 months before I was able to get a decent job and get out.

**terryh** · September-27-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Terry, I lived on the corner of Fernhill and Bauman in '83/'84 in less than savory circumstances, too. Even then, it was a horrible area to live in. I shared that house with several other people and we didn't leave it alone even during the day. I saw more than one car on fire outside my side door where they had been dumped and torched. One night, I heard someone banging on the back door screaming and went to answer it; one of my roommates stopped me, telling me it was the hooker from next door trying to get away from her pimp, again. The various ethnicities in the area didn't always get along, so there were nights that we turned the lights off and sat in the dark while they shot it out in the street in front of the house. The party store was there then, too, and it was definitely unsafe to go in there without someone with you. We had a Doberman and a sawed off shotgun for protection, and even then, I wasn't too comfortable.
Thank God I was only there for about 6 months before I was able to get a decent job and get out.

Glad you made it out Jcole. Back in 98 I read a brief article about a double homicide [[the guy I knew Butch's brother, and another man from the neighborhood) were shot execution style.Two other mild aquaintaince have been gunned down since then. Rumor through the grapevine was that suburban cops, whose daughters were buying dope from victims, were the triggermen...who knows and who cares, I dont think Ill be taking any more trips down memory lane through that area,Its safer behind the computer screen viewing the blight from Google Earth.

**terryh** · September-27-10, 01:08 PM

There was a down home restaurant [[Bahi) that had a great wholesome hardy menu at reasonable prices, and some fun to shop at markets that featured imported goods, but overall I was treated with suspect when I patronized the businesses along the strip, witnessing on one occasion what appeared to be a strong arm of a small business owner by a shady Chaldean. I know from newsreports and grapevine that there is a history of organized crime [[remember the Kalasho-Akrawi organizations)?, shakedowns, illegal gambling and cocaine dealing along the 7 mile strip between John R. and Woodward.

The area is cleaning up a bit, with refrurbished storefronts, new housing, demolition of some delapidated businesses and homes, not too mention some light industry in the area, but I wouldn't bank on the area making a big comeback anytime soon.

**pjazeps** · October-02-10, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

I can tell by the postings on this thread that we all feel the same way about Detroit back then. I still love Detroit and the wonderful memories I have of the City and my early years working for the City.

yes how beautiful det was back than and the beautiful people that i crossed paths with in the 1950s...p.j

**kellyroad** · October-03-10, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Terry, I lived on the corner of Fernhill and Bauman in '83/'84 in less than savory circumstances, too. Even then, it was a horrible area to live in. I shared that house with several other people and we didn't leave it alone even during the day. I saw more than one car on fire outside my side door where they had been dumped and torched. One night, I heard someone banging on the back door screaming and went to answer it; one of my roommates stopped me, telling me it was the hooker from next door trying to get away from her pimp, again. The various ethnicities in the area didn't always get along, so there were nights that we turned the lights off and sat in the dark while they shot it out in the street in front of the house. The party store was there then, too, and it was definitely unsafe to go in there without someone with you. We had a Doberman and a sawed off shotgun for protection, and even then, I wasn't too comfortable.
Thank God I was only there for about 6 months before I was able to get a decent job and get out.

A friend of mine lived in the John R just north of 7 area. He had lived in a home with his parents and grandparents so he knew of the history of that neighborhood since its inception. It was during the early and mid 70s that the neighborhood changed seemingly overnight. Many of the stories you reported were similar to his. BTW, It was at that time that I discovered the East-West divider in the city is John R starting at 6 Mile going north

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · October-07-10, 02:38 PM

And what about the RKO Theatre . . .

We went there often -- Almost every Friday. My mom and I would walk from Fernhill to State Fair, take the bus to Woodward, get on the street car to the theatre where we would meet my dad. He got there by bus/street car from where he worked. We would eat at Sanders; often a sandwich and a hot fudge sundae [[so yummmmmy!) for desert. They had these little trays that fastened on the counter and dropped down to table height level above each stool. Then we ALWAYS went next door to the popcorn store on the corner where my dad bought a BIG bag of Carmel Corn to take to the DOUBLE FEATURE movie at the RKO. And then at 10 p.m. or so, we would ride streetcar and bus back and then walk home.
With never a care for our safety.

　

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · October-12-10, 10:07 AM

Me 'n Rocky [[my puppy) were driving down the road the other day and I was thinking, once again, of my old neighborhood and how it was 60 years ago.

SIXTY YEARS AGO?????? AAAACCCKKKKK!!!!!

Rocky looked up at me -- and said --

[[he doesn't actually 'talk", I read his mind thru his eyes)

"You need to say a prayer every day for sixty days, representing the sixty years you didn't, asking God to cover this neighborhood with His cloak of Love and Protection so that, once again, families and children will have a safe place to play and live."

So I did. And I am. Counting down from 60, today is #58.

sdb

**Sarah (Dawn) Barnes** · January-07-11, 12:21 PM

This is simply a P.S. to my original post to direct you to my two websites.

One is a writing Blog, which I hope is an avenue for networking with other writers with the goal of showcasing my writing and ultimately becoming a published author.

http://SarahSaysExpressYourself.blogspot.com

The other is a website tied to the Robieson organization as part of their Water for Life Project, whose purpose is to build wells in villages in Third World Countries where children are dying every day from drinking contaminated water. The cost for one well is $4800. I hope you will go to my site, listen to the message/song, and contribute $10, $25, $50, or whatever you can. And then take the message to YOUR friends, YOUR church, so they will contribute also.

http://www.lifetoday.org/site/TRC/AFL/AmbassadorsforLife?pg=peditor&fr_id=1010&px=231724 7
　
　
　
　
　

http://www.lifetoday.org/site/TRC/AF...010&px=2317247