Christine O'Donnell: A New Low

[gdogslim]

A victory for the tea party and conservatives.
The RINO Castle needed to go.
The spend happy Pelosi and the democrats are ruining this country and they will find out how much the voters truly hate them this november.

[gibran]

Conservatives are rolling in their graves watching this tea party ... remember the tea party is still comprised of the Mad hatter [[Beck), the Evil Queen [[Palin) and the Alice in wonder land. [[ the lost souls that have been led astray by this group).... they couldn't wait until the paint on Obama officer dried before they started tearing down his character....they represent those out of touch with reality ..thinking that this mess we have could be fixed easily....they represent what fear and ignorance when coupled with persuasive media can produce... they waited til the spineless democrats threw him under the bus and the republicans party of no backed up over him...

if they were just preaching a message of fiscal conservativism without the character assinations I would listen more intently...but every Rovian email and lie spread about Obama discredits their movement and exposes it as a fruad... look to Delaware and that is your party...

[Mikeg]

Conservatives are rolling in their graves......

20 months ago, that kind of talk was fashionable on the left - "conservatism was dead" and “a new liberal order” had arrived, yadda, yadda, yadda. Today, that kind of talk just reveals your cluelessness.

[Jimaz]

The Kruger—Dunning Effect rears its ugly head once more.

[Patrick]

20 months ago, that kind of talk was fashionable on the left - "conservatism was dead" and “a new liberal order” had arrived, yadda, yadda, yadda. Today, that kind of talk just reveals your cluelessness.

Karl? CCbats?? Is that you? Have ya participated in any Tea Parties lately? Big fan?

[ghettopalmetto]

Okay, this is jumping all over the map, but here goes.

Their basic complaint is that the federal government has gotten involved into too many areas that it doesn't belong in, which is a major cause of the exploding debt that we are now experiencing [[over $13.4 trillion or $110.4 trillion, depending on which number you want to use).

And just where did all that debt come from? I mean, you can only cut taxes and deregulate everything so much before the economy collapses under greed.

The debt is irrelevant when your economy is in a recession. The tea partiers aren't necessarily wrong, but they don't present all facets of the argument, which makes tea partyism intellectually dishonest. Debt is less of a problem when you grow your economy over time.

Certainly, the Tea Partiers aren't arguing that the federal government has no role in taxation or regulating interstate commerce. :-)

[Mikeg]

Karl? CCbats?? Is that you? Have ya participated in any Tea Parties lately? Big fan?

No. I've never made any attempt on this forum to hide my identity. I've been known to occasionally include my contact information within my postings and as a result I've received many e-mails from forum members, including one earlier this week from Karl. He wrote, "Say hello to everyone at DY".

[gibran]

what is clueless is the inability to understand That compassion towards others makes economic success and the while "liberal" values are clueless to some they are the way out of this mess for many more...that instead of protecting the status quo that accepts things such as higher rates of drop outs in the inner cities..while not realizing the costs associated with the failures [[cost will be in incarceration) can be turned around. Mike you continue to place the blame on the victims of a failed system..that is protected by a lack of values that would and should be placed on others kids... if these were you children you would accept the failure of the republican party as the new standards...just because you fear the economy was not going to change over night... my long winded point is -what programs do you think should be cut to balance the budget... at what cost to the future of this country?

the party of personal accounatbility has had their chance..let's give the resouces to people then hold them accountable...by listening to their needs ..not judging their failures from safe distance.

Health and education are critical for our country..yet those who fear the prcie tag will be paying for the failures in other more concrete ways later...

Funny how the party of personal accountability is very good at pointing fingers at liberal values. But in reality the clues are around us everyday show us just what is so "individual" about a movement that finds its orders from Sarah and Beck. That blindly backs a candidate that wouldnt lie to save a Jewish person and not pay school obligations nor her staff...

It is funny how you guys throw a person who worked his way through school, passed on high dollar job to work in the community, married to only one women and is raising two children then becomes president and the likes of Rush et al question his character..throws his ideals out before he has a chance to work with the party of NO. That my friend is more dangerous to our country than a light case of social justice...they wanted HC to be his waterloo...an din return they impowered the teabaggers.

so if I am clueless...at least my heart and mind have not failed me to date...and I would rather err on the side of compassion than the side of "I got mine you get yours"..[[). At least when I voted republican they had some compassion back then..now they are just another party that bows to special interest, lacks accountability [[no regulations right?) and loves foriegn countries over us [[neocon)...but thats a clueful party we all can wrap around.

[oladub]

Wikipedia has a pretty good summary from both perspectives., "The Tea Party focuses on smaller government, fiscal responsibility, individual freedoms and upholding a conservative view of the Constitution."

"Reaction to the tea parties included counter-protests expressing support for the Obama administration, and dismissive or mocking media coverage of both the events and its promoters.More generally, Tea Party protestors have been labeled as: [[a) "ignorant" of the ways and means necessary for modern societies to carry on in an ever more complex and fragile world, with an increased need for interdependence and cooperation; and [[b) "selfish" in that the lack of awareness and support of [[a) is self-serving to the detriment of future generations."

For additional perspective:
This Is A Revolution! Dr Ron Paul youtube Wolf Blitzer begin at 4min10sec

Someday, when I'm not feeling lazy, I'll lay out my parallel between the Boxer Rebellion and the more peaceful tea party movement as both being grass roots, nationalist, sort of disorganized, headless, movements angry with leaders who sold out their own people giving the British an opium concession and now sending our jobs away for a quick buck or campaign donation.

[firstandten]

The libs are always trying to blame the size of the Federal Budget deficits on the "Bush Tax Cuts", but the facts are that by any measure, at least 90% of the real cause has been entirely on the spending side of the equation, not the revenue side.

Yeah, like two unfunded wars medicare part D, no child left behind, all spending during the Bush years. Look if your going to the alter of the Heritage Foundation, know that there reason for being is to advance supply side economics period. However if you are really data driven and have learn the lessons of history you would know that supply side economics is what Bush Sr said voodoo economics, something that the Repubs can hang their hat on, so they can say that we have a plan too.

[firstandten]

Again with the blaming of Bush. Bush is no longer in office. and last time I checked, Obama was a US Senator from Illinois who voted on a lot of that spending [[when he bothered to show up for work). Are you trying to tell me that not once did Pres. B.O. ever bother to read a budget while he was campaigning?

All some of us are trying to do is provide the backstory to all of this. Some of us [[you) decided that history began once Obama was elected. Also the reason Obama as well as a lot of Senators voted for the spending especially for the wars was once it was certain that we were going to war no sane politican is going to not vote for the spending even if they disagree with the war, our reasons for fighting etc. Its political suicide.

The problem here is that people are using the 1950's analogy, when the 1930's is more appropriate.

Gov't spending and ill-thought out programs didn't bring us out of that depression, in fact, it actually worsened it..

What did then

Why does this surprise you that when the government is banging the drum claiming the the "rich" are bad, and that they will "balance" things [["From each according to their ability...), the rich move their money offshore?.

When did you get that memo, I never did. Its not about the rich being bad. People behave according to their own best interest. If the rich move their money to offshore accounts because of economic incentives, thats in their best interest, not necessarily the countries best interest. So if its not in our countries best interest then those incentives need to be taken away. its not about good and evil.

Drop the party dogma and encourage that money be kept and spent here..

I agree with that, but its not enough to just say that, you must create the economic incentives or in some cases dis-incentives to make that happen .

People are Repubs for a reason, especially people with money. The whole social conservative bit is for people with no money to go along with the program.

[bailey]

Even Carl Rove has no enthusiasm for Christine.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42205.html

that was fast....

Well, that didn't take long. After being pounded for a full day by some of the conservative movement's biggest names, a bruised and battered Karl Rove took to the Fox News airwaves this morning to get on board the Christine O'Donnell train.

[gibran]

just off the headlines on NPR: while many of the tea party are actual grass roots people the biggest contributors to their movement .... OIL and Medical Fields...ummmmm imagine that.

[ghettopalmetto]

just off the headlines on NPR: while many of the tea party are actual grass roots people the biggest contributors to their movement .... OIL and Medical Fields...ummmmm imagine that.

Huh, what do you know? And here, I thought "grassroots" meant an agenda that was "bottom-up", not dictated by a handful of people at the top of the pyramid.

The tea party is just ridiculous. The entire platform was a complete non-issue to its own participants until a couple billionaires started telling them what to believe. Let's dispense with the feigned outrage and work toward some actual solutions to actual problems, shall we?

[maxx]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/05/...och-astroturf/
"Americans for Prosperity [[AFP), the corporate front group founded in the 1980s by Koch Industries billionaire David Koch, worked closely with Rep. Michele Bachmann [[R-MN) to orchestrate the anti-health reform rally today.."
Guess whose prosperity? lol

[gibran]

the sheets are coming off the party ...and what are they revealing...ummmm

[MCP-001]

And just where did all that debt come from? I mean, you can only cut taxes and deregulate everything so much before the economy collapses under greed.

The debt is irrelevant when your economy is in a recession. The tea partiers aren't necessarily wrong, but they don't present all facets of the argument, which makes tea partyism intellectually dishonest. Debt is less of a problem when you grow your economy over time.

Certainly, the Tea Partiers aren't arguing that the federal government has no role in taxation or regulating interstate commerce. :-)

And how do you intend to "grow" the economy when the federal government takes away the means from those who can grow it? The federal government introducing a great deal of uncertainty into the economy doesn't help those people either.

FDR tried that approach back in the 30's. It didn't work very well.

[MCP-001]

All some of us are trying to do is provide the backstory to all of this. Some of us [[you) decided that history began once Obama was elected. Also the reason Obama as well as a lot of Senators voted for the spending especially for the wars was once it was certain that we were going to war no sane politican is going to not vote for the spending even if they disagree with the war, our reasons for fighting etc. Its political suicide.

Two problems:

First, Pres. B.O. is the current president. He is the one that has a say in what does and does not get done. Junior is busy enjoying his retirement down in Crawford. He doesn't have any control in what the government does now.

Two, the "political suicide" argument is a straw man argument, and you know it. Are you honestly telling me that those people who ignored the public backlash against Obamacare, miraculously developed a backbone between the start of the "wars" and today?

What did then

WWII. But at least back then, we knew who we were fighting and why.

When did you get that memo, I never did. Its not about the rich being bad. People behave according to their own best interest. If the rich move their money to offshore accounts because of economic incentives, thats in their best interest, not necessarily the countries best interest. So if its not in our countries best interest then those incentives need to be taken away. its not about good and evil.

“The tax cuts at the high end have not produced any jobs; it only increased the deficit.”

"I've got a whole bunch of better ways to spend that money."

I agree with that, but its not enough to just say that, you must create the economic incentives or in some cases dis-incentives to make that happen .

From my observations, the incentives work far better every time. Dis-incentives have a tendancy to get mired down in politics and muck things up.

People are Repubs for a reason, especially people with money. The whole social conservative bit is for people with no money to go along with the program.

The main thing that I've observed regarding the political "parties" is that the republicans like to control people regarding social matters and democrats like to control people regarding financial matters.

Notice the one thing that the "two" of them have in common?

[Pam]

Did you all even read the article in the first link?

"This is her third Senate race in five years. As O’Donnell’s manager, I found out she was living on campaign donations — using them for rent and personal expenses, while leaving her workers unpaid and piling up thousands in debt," she says. ...


Murray said she voluntarily left her position as executive director of the state party to run O'Donnell's second Senate run in June 2008, after the candidate pleaded with her three different times to sign on. She left the position two months later, after she found out O'Donnell doesn't have a college degree, had foreclosed on her home and was using the campaign debit card for personal expenses.

So much for "fiscal responsibility". More from Anderson Cooper's show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n47_st8Q1AU

[maxx]

http://www.frumforum.com/odonnell-fe...-modified-mice

"In a stunningly moronic discussion about cloning on the Bill O’Reilly show in 2007, GOP candidate Christine O’Donnell warned of the dangers of mice with fully functioning human brains..."

O’DONNELL: They are — they are doing that here in the United States. American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains..."

So O'Donnell appears to be not only a moron but a huge liar.

[East Detroit]

She is kinda cute, like Palin. And they aren't the people who didn't get anything done.

[kathy2trips]

Offering National Inquirer-type bloggers up as credible news sources to support your argument is less effective, and more laughable. And AC is a commentator, not a serious, unbiased journalist. Frankly, I'd trust someone at least trying to pay their debts, Like Ms. O'Donnell, as opposed to Rangel, Maxine and Timmy G., who can't seem to get their finances legit.

I would expect a mayor, governor or, yes, president to have experience running a business, managing freaking something. That's why they call them "executives". If they don't, as you can see with Kwame, Jen and Barack, it's a disaster. However in a legislature, all you have to do is READ the bill and vote. Frankly, if Biden could do it, so can she, and then some.

As an independent, I'm enjoying sitting back and watching the left have a freak-out melt-down over this rather mousy, unassuming woman, and the right contradicting each other while trying to figure out what they want to be when they grow up. Let the games begin.

[firstandten]

Two problems:

First, Pres. B.O. is the current president. He is the one that has a say in what does and does not get done. Junior is busy enjoying his retirement down in Crawford. He doesn't have any control in what the government does now.

Two, the "political suicide" argument is a straw man argument, and you know it. Are you honestly telling me that those people who ignored the public backlash against Obamacare, miraculously developed a backbone between the start of the "wars" and today?

I like to use sports examples from time to time to explain a point.
The country under Bush was like the Lions under Millen
The Lions make a change putting a guy in charge who is making solid football moves yet that win meter still hasn't really increased, but people who are in the know understand that it takes time and Mayhew is making the correct moves and predictions are that the Lions will have more wins [[at least they did until Stafford got hurt).
Very similar situation with the country. Now you can still blame Obama because "Officially he's the man in office" but that would be intellectually dishonest.

There is a big difference between caving on Health care reform and supporting the troops. Supporting the troops is one of the few areas both parties can agree on.
If Obama and others didn't vote for spending for the war, even though they opposed the war, the next election they would be explaining 24/7 why they put US troops in harms way.

[oladub]

[
Sounds like you and Cheney are on the same team. Making a guy President whose only executive experience was being a 'community organizer' must be like hiring a Lion's quarterback who only played high school ball.

[Whitehouse]

Even Carl Rove has no enthusiasm for Christine.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42205.html

\

It didn't take long for him to back down. A few huffs and pffs from Rush Limbagh was all it took to turn him around. The guy has no backbone! I don't like Republicans, but I do admire those who stand by their opinion, even though that is sometimes twisted. But this guy, who accused John Kerry of being a flip-flop is totally an asshole!