Why should I stay in Detroit?

[CLAUDE G]

I could see moving to the suburbs to get away from the inner city, but this is where I grew up and I love this area. I would never dream of moving away.

[R8RBOB]

I could see moving to the suburbs to get away from the inner city, but this is where I grew up and I love this area. I would never dream of moving away.

Moving to the suburbs is only a band-aid. The same problems that has bogged down the region will still exist. The jobs will still be unavailable regardless where you are living. The environment will still be toxic because of years of division between city and suburb.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Damn good post swingline!

[JJD]

As far as the burbs go, I spent a year lving in Farmington Hills, while the conviences of having every major store within 2 miles was very nice, I was never approched by a nieghbor for a friendly hello. Everyone went to and from work, kept their lawns nice, and mostly lived out a run of the mill existence. For many this is the ideal situation: comfortable, routine, and easy. I moved back to detroit because I love the achitecture, historic buildings, and the variety of people you meet who have this common struggle of being detroiters. A love for a once Great City that we all for some crazy reason think we can help to bring back. For me, the people and the spirirt of Detroit called me back, and despite the financial penalties - I find myself very happy about my decision to live in Detroit. So far it has been a rewarding one.

Sometimes you have to see what else is out there before you appreciate what you already have.

[detroitbob]

I lived in Detroit for 55 years [[a lifer) but made the move 2 years ago and I have contemplated moving back twice since than. Both instances involved co-op units and after weighing all the options, plus and minus, even trying to tip the scales in favor of Detroit, I have come to the conclusion that in my instance long term situations outweigh the short term benefits of a cheap buy-in. As a person with a disability, but mobile, I needed to consider the situation if mobility became a problem in the future, the city just does not have enough basic creature services on a base line situation. Sure, there are doctors, hospitals, etc. but long term availability of grocery and other shopping remains off in the future. Sure, the new Meijer at 8 Mile will serve a vast audience of store starved patrons, but the downtown area, regardless of how many folks move in to work on a M-F schedule will have [[eventually) Ye Older Butcher Shop and perhaps a reopened "Foodland" style place in Lafayette Park...other than that, not much to choose from. Amazing how having 5 grocery stores, 5 mass market drug emporiums, a host of other shops and services including 4 open air or enclosed malls within 5 minutes of Michigan Ave and Greenfield can spoil a boy. Not to mention being 1.1 miles from work. So, I will still shop in Mexicantown and specialty stalls at Gratiot Central, buy tires at Arandas, get my car worked on at Romo's on Junction, attend the DSO, MiOpera, Fox, Fisher, et al in support of the city and the business owners. I don't miss the taxes, lack of city services, water bills, auto vandalism, the three b & e's, the auto and homeowner insurance rates. In researching the potential move downtown my coop owners and auto insurance would have increased by 200% to 300% based on the quotes from my current carriers and new quoted service. There simply comes a point where familiarity and nostalgia get trumped by costs. Other posts have recounted the issues thrown in the path of folks who tried to buy houses-historic or not---and although I did not experience those roadblocks---I've seen the situation grow more "un-user friendly" in the last five years. One of the old time Southwest Detroit businessman [[of Hispanic heritage) tells me that the Hispanic community is taking advantage of the cheap housing prices in Lincoln Park, Melvindale, Allen Park, Southgate etc. and a migration is taking place. The census figures for this area will be interesting to review...perhaps frightening. This is certainly evident by the new round of burn downs and abandoned houses. On the block I lived on for 30 years, 6 houses have been destroyed by arson, two were occupied and 4 were vacant. Another 4 houses sit vacant and boarded up in various states of vandalism. This is in the past two years on a street/section of west Southwest Detroit that saw very little vacancy, vandalism or arson throughout the years. The loss of the "gang squad" certainly impacted the area, but this former fastest growing, stable area is in real trouble if the trend continues. It's more than just the schools...[[although I am not downplaying that problem)---and the tone is Lansing is going to get decidedly more unfriendly as the Grand Rapids crowd gets more control.

[kahnman]

As an ex-pat living north of Seattle for the last 24 years, can I offer you this insight, T? Portland [[and Oregon in general) has it's share of woes. My wife and I spent a week in downtown Portland a few months ago and to be honest, we were shocked at the [[literally) crumbling infrastructure of the city. The roads were terrible and there was a significant amount of trash and graff everywhere - in short, a typical large city.

As was pointed out earlier, the housing stock is significantly more expensive than Detroit. Also, check out tax initiatives 66 and 67 that hit businesses causing a percentage of them to move to Washington state just to stay solvent. See: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph/Oregon_Tax_Hike_Vote,_Ballot_Measures_66_and_67_%2 82010%29
Oregon got hit very hard in the "economic downturn", just like a majority of states.

I will give Portland a thumbs up regarding mass transit, though. It's a very expansive, multifaceted approach that is light years ahead of Detroit. The reason I bring these points up is to encourage you to look at all aspects of the community you ultimately choose to be a part of.

[daddeeo]

You shouldn't ... unless you are a glutton for punishment.

[Tig3rzhark]

I wish to revive this thread in hopes of bringing more understanding to my thinking process when it comes to Detroit.

I was born in Grandmont-Rosedale and spent my childhood there, lived a few years in Fishkorn and currently live in what's called the Tireman, Livernois and Beechwood neighborhood.

Grandmont-Rosedale was a safe neighborhood. My parents own a house in Fishkorn and it was livable. I just couldn't afford to pay the rent.

I currently live with one of my uncles on Underwood, since it puts me closer to my school, Focus:HOPE, and my job, Henry Ford Hospital: Main Campus. I can ride my bike there if the buses are unable to run in a timely manner, which occurs on a regular basis.

As a lifetime Detroiter, I have little confidence in the mass transit system. The facts speak for themselves.

I have found that leaving Detroit is a lot harder in my current situation.

I have come to find that the places that I want to go to have expensive rental rates. And even though I have some certifications in IT, I'm still going to need a decent amount of money to last a few months out of state.

I will love Detroit techno as well as my family and friends that still remain. I will go to Movement: DEMF like a muslim goes to Mecca.

I have realized that financially, that escape will be difficult. The suburbs are not much of an escape either. Both are part of the problem that has made Metro Detroit what it has become.

It is a question of how and when, now.

[xD_Brklyn]

Contact your friends who live in a city that you are interested and see if you can room with them until you can get setup on your own. Did that initially for about a year and a half when I landed here in NYC long ago.

[claireianthelibrarian]

The decision to move is so personal, it's kind of tricky to tell you what to do.

Portland is not without its problems, as another poster noted. The economy in Michigan is worse overall, but it's not perfect in Portland, either. Portland also has a highly educated populace, so competition for jobs can be tight. I don't know anything about IT out there, but in even if I had my master's of library science already, I'd be lucky to get a job at Powell's Books these days.

Portland is a very white and liberal city. Take that or leave it.

I mostly wanted to post about transit in Portland, since I have ridden it. I didn't use it to get between neighborhoods, but I got around on Portland buses for several days when I visited there. It was fabulous. Dense network of coverage, clean, on time, easy to understand system, and the buses I took ran every 15 minutes. I also found that other riders were extremely helpful when I needed directions. Portland's transit system wins a lot of awards, and I can see why.

You might want to look into other cities with decent transit, too. The CTA in Chicago is dirty, loud, and often late, but the system is so complete and runs so frequently that it still generally works out really well. Other folks on this thread, what other places might you recommend for transit? Boston? DC?

If you decide to move, do lots of research. If there's any way you can get a job out there before you move, try it. As someone else suggested, if you have friends or relatives you can stay with cheaply until you get on your feet, do that. Relocating can be hard and will definitely involve a lot of sacrifices short term, but ultimately it will work out. And it sounds like you have a pretty supportive family, even if it doesn't. Good luck.

[detroitjim]

You aint left yet? You must have realized the #1 reason to continue to reside here.

How many other places can you leave out cho crib, bust off a few caps from yoe nine and not have to stress about the poepoe puttin the strain on you?

Bet chou made the ride choyse! Bet.

[oladub]

Research Fargo, Minot, and Bismarck North Dakota if you are seriously looking for high tech employment. The unemployment rate is low there. It's a good place to raise a family but on the cold side for biking in winter. Portland has all the cool, trendy, liberal ambiances including high taxes if that is what you seek but so does Minneapolis but with lower unemployment and housing costs. Comprehensive smart growth planning policy has jacked up housing costs in Portland and made car ownership a pain.

[EastsideQT]

Given your feelings about Detroit...I do not understand why you haven't left already.

[hybridy]

a midwest option closer to detroit

http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/b...fc_madison.php

plentiful IT jobs here too - epic alone is hiring 1000+ in the next year and a half

http://careers.epic.com/

http://careers.epic.com/listing-us

personally its too small and too much of a bubble-i.e. ann arbor

[iheartthed]

I'm also pretty surprised that you haven't left yet. Not sure what's keeping you there, but there won't ever be a perfect time so just go...

Other folks on this thread, what other places might you recommend for transit? Boston? DC?

Well, New York obviously has the best transit system in the country. After NYC I would rank DC's second, Chicago third, Philadelphia fourth and Boston fifth. I've never used San Frarncisco's, but I hear it's pretty good by American standards.

Philadelphia and Chicago are relatively cheap cities in comparison to the others that I listed [[I'm personally a big fan of Philadelphia but I'm not sure how good the employment situation is down there). Any city in the northeast is reasonably close to Detroit [[IMO) for quick weekend trips home [[which I do pretty often).

[mwilbert]

I agree with iheartthed, although I would add that I think Boston is nonetheless easier to get around than Chicago of Philadelphia, especially if you bike, because it is so much smaller [[though hillier), and because driving is so painful that you get a psychic bonus by watching other people do it. However, Boston is pretty expensive. I would have suggested Chicago for the combination of transit and relative cheapness, but I don't have any idea what stuff costs in Philadelphia, so maybe that would be better.

If you want to get back to Detroit often, a bus ride from Chicago is probably faster than a flight from Philadelphia or Boston, once you count the airport times, or if you prefer comfort you can take a train from Chicago which is completely impractical from the east coast.

[oladub]

I have a personal knowledge of Epic. Awesome place! The last time I visited the Epic campus, sort of a Silicon Valley like place, there were three cranes adding new buildings. Epic's owner is a woman with a vision. She makes sure her employees are presented with the most nutritious food and even points out common grammar errors at monthly assemblies of all employees. Gotta love her. One quarter of all hospitals in the US use Epic software. It's like an international village with computer people from around the world. Slackers don't last long there though. I don't mean to take anything away from Detroit but Epic rocks.

[Tig3rzhark]

I don't have my Bachelor's Degree, yet. I've noticed that many of the jobs that I'm looking for will require that more-so than those with certifications.

I've been checking job ads, daily to find that many of them available locally, are

To address iheartthed, you're right, that there is no such thing as a "perfect time" for me to leave. Money has become an obstacle as well as affordability so leaving Detroit will take money and time.

[cman710]

I agree with iheartthed, although I would add that I think Boston is nonetheless easier to get around than Chicago of Philadelphia, especially if you bike, because it is so much smaller [[though hillier), and because driving is so painful that you get a psychic bonus by watching other people do it. However, Boston is pretty expensive. I would have suggested Chicago for the combination of transit and relative cheapness, but I don't have any idea what stuff costs in Philadelphia, so maybe that would be better.

I have lived in the Boston area for about 2 1/2 years, and agree with everything mwilbert said. So long as you live within access of the T, the city is pretty easy to get around by public transportation [[though the quality of the transportation and reliability can be very sketchy at times). But Boston is very, very expensive, particularly for someone coming from Detroit, which is so comparatively cheap. Philadelphia is a much cheaper city.

[casscorridor]

I moved to the city from the burbs after high school in search of an urban lifestyle. I attained somewhat of an urban lifestyle in the Midtown and Woodbridge neighborhoods living without a car for over three years, walking and busing everywhere. I was young, and excited about the city that was so close growing up yet so unknown.

After awhile the city ceased being new or exciting and after traveling to many other cities I began to understand the true level of Detroit's disorder. Walking long distances in the cold to get anywhere and without passing a single pedestrian gets old fast. Waiting on busses that may or may not come gets old fast, especialy in the dead of winter. Seeing the same handful of people at every bar or party or event gets old fast. Not being able to find a decent place to buy shoes or socks or cloths [[minus thrift) gets old fast. I began to understand these basic quality of life issues are not about to change anytime soon. That Detroit's neighborhoods are so far depopulated of both residents and businesses and ammenities that it is hard to imagine them ever coming back.

And with things I enjoy so spread out, it is hard feeling motivated to do anything when it is so hard to get anywhere. North End to Mexicantown to Woodbridge then to Eastern Market is no easy feat without a car. And not having a car makes me seem more like a degenerate than a reasonable person. All my friends have cars so I am left living this "urban" lifestyle alone. When I visit my friends in BK no one has a car and everyone walks/bikes or takes public trans... and it is completely normal. Here it's like a joke, like self-punishment. And for what? All the things I do here I can do in BK... The music, the art, the food. And its all much more accesible. Not to mention opportunities are far more plentiful. And far more people with similar interests and lifestyles.

I'm not saying there aren't unique opportunities in Detroit, there definatly is. All the cheap houses and abundant land. The relative freedom to do what one wants in the streets. The low level of capital needed to launch a major project or business. But those benifits do not outweigh the costs in my mind, at least not when it comes to living and sustaining myself financially as well as mentally. And as I grow older I feel urgency to leave, as youth runs out eventually. I want to experience a functional urban place, I want to live an urban lifestyle, which was the whole reason I left the burbs in the first plave. But now I am seeing I have to leave the whole region and state to accomplish this. I hope our leaders understand this, but I doubt they do. Michigan and Detroit do not have what my generation is looking for.

[Det_ard]

BK? Burger King?

[Malcove Magnesia]

Your hire-ability to companies inside & outside of Detroit goes up dramatically once you finish your Bachelors degree. Finish that first and then your money and marketability issues should disappear soon afterwards.

[REL]

An online forum is not the place to look for an answer. Check your gut, and your own personal needs/feelings. The/this city isn't for everybody, neither are the suburbs or exburbs.

I do sincerely wish you luck, though, on whatever you decide.

[mpow]

well said brushstart...

[iheartthed]

BK? Burger King?

Brooklyn...