Illinois-style traffic lights to built in the Metro Detroit area

[Whitehouse]

Over here you more and more see the traffic lights... being eliminated! Dangerous junctions which did have lights are ever more converted to mini roundabouts. This is right around the corner where I live.

A picture from the situation before the reconstruction. Pedestrians, bicycles and cars were all on the same level.


As you can see the conversion is only completed days ago before Google sent their camera car around. This was a junction with traffic lights. As you know, we're kind of fond of bicycles. This crossing is a major connection to a highschool some miles ahead, so lots of school children pass this crossing. And there have been accidents. Being juviniles ignoring a red light is almost second nature.....

Another point you can see is the pedestrian/cycle crossing going under. They constructed a tunnel.

Check it out.

A kilometer south there's a one-off, totally unique mini roundabout made in which a cycle path crosses right across the roundabout. I defies logic but.... it works like a charm! As a cyclist you cannot miss the oncoming traffic. Really safe solution, especially since this junctions lies in a bend in the road.

This is what that junction looked like before they started reconstruction.



Check it out what it looks like now! Pan around and see it from different angles. Those semi arches are lit at night.

Believe me, there's no second roundabout like this in the world. There were no traffic lights here but this was also a dangerous crossing. The main road speed is 80 km/h. Try doing that on a roundabout. won't work and that is precisely the goal of a roundabout, killing speed while maintaining a healthy flow speed.

Yes, you can learn a lot in a forum like this.

[jackie5275]

I noticed recently that there are now "Signal Under Study For Removal" signs on Second and Third at Euclid. The lights at these intersections [[which, incidentally, are hung from poles rather than wires) are completely nonfunctional, and have been for as long as I can remember. They haven't worked in so long that the city actually installed 4-way stop signage at both intersections. What I want to know is, what exactly are they studying?

There is the same sign at a turnaround on I-94 service drive just west, about 250 ft, of Mt. Elliott. It's been there for over 10 yrs. The traffic signal is hanging & always fully operational. I'm not sure what they're studying, but I guess these studies take awhile.

[Bearinabox]

There is the same sign at a turnaround on I-94 service drive just west, about 250 ft, of Mt. Elliott. It's been there for over 10 yrs. The traffic signal is hanging & always fully operational. I'm not sure what they're studying, but I guess these studies take awhile.

I can understand why you would need to study traffic volumes and such before removing an operational signal from service. What I don't understand is why a signal that effectively hasn't existed for many years, having been replaced a long time ago by four-way stop signs, requires a similar study. If the Euclid signals were removed tomorrow, it would not affect traffic at those intersections in any way, because nobody who drives through there is paying attention to the nonfunctional lights anyway.

[Detroit Signal]

Several intersections were tagged with these signs on 7/31/09. What inevitably will happen is these signals WILL get removed. At the moment, there are about 20+ intersections like this with signals that are anywhere from 25-70 years old. Some were left in flash mode and others have had their controllers shut off or stolen by scrappers. A couple of weeks ago, some of us local signal enthusiasts toured the neighborhoods and we actually talked to a few people around the neighborhoods about the deactivated signals. I had a lady comment how the number of accidents actually went down AFTER the signals were put in flash mode at her corner [[3rd and Euclid). My guess is that's why some of these are under study for removal. Over the last 10 years alone the city has already removed signals at over 50+ intersections.

[Detroit Signal]

I can understand why you would need to study traffic volumes and such before removing an operational signal from service. What I don't understand is why a signal that effectively hasn't existed for many years, having been replaced a long time ago by four-way stop signs, requires a similar study. If the Euclid signals were removed tomorrow, it would not affect traffic at those intersections in any way, because nobody who drives through there is paying attention to the nonfunctional lights anyway.

That's an excellent point. Red tape and lack of organization on the part of PLD and the traffic engineering department would be the short, logical answer. Makes you wonder............

Like the time around SUPERBOWL when the city spent thousands of dollars on LED modules to retrofit signals approaching 70 years old AND THEN they ended up removing and replacing the signals during the big upgrade in 07-present. Waste of money!!!

[Claude G.]

The state did some upgrades along Van Dyke a few years ago, and instead of hanging the lights off the existing wooden poles they had to install brand new steel poles with foundations.

The new traffic signals look nice, but they put the new cement poles right in the middle of the sidewalk and right infront of a big window at my store.

[Bearinabox]

I had a lady comment how the number of accidents actually went down AFTER the signals were put in flash mode at her corner [[3rd and Euclid).

I'm not surprised. With Second and Third as paired one-way streets, you can consistently drive pretty fast on them [[40-45 mph) as long as you pay attention to the light timing. At that speed, if somebody blows a stop sign on a side street or whips out of an alley or something, there will very likely be an accident. Make everyone stop at one of the intersections, and the speed they can practically attain between stops is much less.

[Mikeg]

Claude G. - speaking of your store, please read my Aug. 22nd post on the "I worked at a Detroit Car Dealership" thread.

[Stosh]

These have been up for at least 8 years. What's the big deal?

Attachment 7360

[ja!mz]

Remember back in the early '80's there were signals at the end of the entrance ramps on 94, with a sign that said "stop on red signal"..what was the purpose of that system and how did it work?

[ja!mz]

New Detroit traffic signal [[prototype-to go live, fully manned 1st quarter 2011)

[MSUguy]

Speaking of traffic lights are there any of the new style left turn signal is the city? I seem them regulary in the burbs, but haven't seen one in the city proper.

[Funaho]

Speaking of traffic lights are there any of the new style left turn signal is the city? I seem them regulary in the burbs, but haven't seen one in the city proper.

Are you referring to the ones with the yellow arrows? I know there's at least one, at I-94 & Warren, because I go through it every morning on my way to work.

[goggomobil]

Remember back in the early '80's there were signals at the end of the entrance ramps on 94, with a sign that said "stop on red signal"..what was the purpose of that system and how did it work?

The entrance ramp signals were meant to let a driver know when an opening in traffic would allow them to merge safely. I believe they were operated either by a photo-resistive sensor/light combination or an inductive loop in the pavement that was placed upstream of the driver.

They would have worked in a perfect world of people that all drive in the same manner and if so many people hadn't simply ignored them.

[wolverine]

I've always liked Ann Arbor's traffic lights with the lit street sign and all. I wish downtown Chi would implement an all lights red configuration where pedestrians can cross the intersection any way they choose while traffic is stopped. During other configurations pedestrians cannot cross which permits right turns. Currently right turns are obstructed on green on most downtown intersections causing some big backups.

[lilpup]

Check out all the cantilevered lighting downtown [[about 18 seconds in): http://vimeo.com/14930143

[Detroitnerd]

Except during the peak of rush hour, you shouldn't have to wait through a full-length cycle. The technology is available [[and not ridiculously expensive) to embed sensors within the pavement, at measured distances, in each lane as it approaches the intersection. The length of the green light for each cycle is determined by the number of cars queued up. If there's no car at all in a lane [[e.g left turn), that green light is skipped altogether in the cycle, unless a pedestrian hits the Walk button.

At 12am, when you're the only one around, all of the lights are either green, or turn green in short order, as soon as you drive over the sensor. Also, a variation on jimaz thoughts can be deployed with regard to street-level mass transit. As busses or light rail approach the intersection, the traffic signal cycles are automatically accelerated to accommodate the approaching bus/train.

In the urban areas of CA---and many other states---- it's standard practice to install this technology whenever a street is repaved or a light rail line is added . They are certainly not a panacea for uber congestion like LA, NYC, DC, and Chicago, but every little bit helps. Hopefully, County Road Commissions in MI and MDOT will have the sense to incorporate some of these technologies in the long-overdue modernization of its streets.

I'm so glad all other problems have been solved. Now we can spend billions on infrastructure that will be obsolete by the time it's built thanks to $20-a-gallon gas.

[MSUguy]

Are you referring to the ones with the yellow arrows? I know there's at least one, at I-94 & Warren, because I go through it every morning on my way to work.

Yeah those what I'm talking about.



I don't have as much issue with the use of spanwire as with the lack of large street signage I've seen large signs used on spanwire in other states.

[dtowncitylover]

Then you would LOVE Lee Road at U.S. 23 in Green Oak Township. THREE in a row. Need a definition of mass confusion? Go there.....I avoid it like the plague.

I LOVE exiting the Lee Rd for those! [[I have friends who have a cottage out there) I feel like I'm teaching everyone else how to use them. There's a new one at Livernois and Hamlin too! Ahhh rotaries!

[313WX]

Speaking of traffic lights are there any of the new style left turn signal is the city? I seem them regulary in the burbs, but haven't seen one in the city proper.

I know Conner & Gratiot has that signal, and I do recall seeing then in other locations too where the lights have recently been updated.

I believe Gratiot/Gunston and Gratiot/6 Mile has that turn signal too.

[tangerine]

I so totally agree with the original poster. I hate the lights-on-a-string.

I did some research today, calling companies that manufacture the poles. What I found out was that as compared to the cable, the pole is only $10K more per light if you put it in at the outset. That sounds like a lot, but the lights actually cost $100-200K per intersection. Hard to believe how expensive it is. So, the brain surgeons that built out our city could have used the poles instead of the cables for another 10% in costs.

Now that the lights are up, the cost of going to poles would be very expensive, probably $50K per intersection.

What exactly were they thinking when they decided to go with the cables. It's as if in our region there's no value placed on beauty especially in the public realm.

I am working to submit a USDOT grant appliction to put the poles in on Woodward Avenue between 9 mile and 15 mile. I have no idea if I can do this or if the municipalities will even want it, but I have my first meeting with a grant writer on Friday. It's part of this Woodward Project that I've discussed on a seperate thread.

[sirrealone]

I guess I don't see the problem with the hanging lights as is. It's not as if you hear many [[any) reports of them crashing down on the ground. They aren't the nicest looking things but they seem to work. As far as the poles being 'only' 10% more, I think that with things the way they are, that 10% can be a pretty big difference, especially when you add it up over all the traffic lights we're talking about.

I agree that the pole lights 'look' better, but I see no reason to eliminate the strings.

As far as traffic control, what I have always thought needed to happen is that sensor systems need to be expanded. Currently, many intersections are equipped with infared cameras pointed at the intersections to sense approaching traffic. This is OK, but I think that sensors placed further back from the intersections would provide great value in moving traffic. The problem with the current system is that if there is a small gap in traffic, the sensor will see this as a signal to switch to red when in fact traffic has not really cleared. This causes unneeded backups, and sensors placed further back could provide data to extend the light.

I know that this would involve further costs, but I believe that they could be offset by reductions in widening and expansion projects that could be realized by greater traffic efficiency.

[mtburb]

They are already up. Here's a simple two-step way to see them:

1. Drive to Troy.
2. Check out every major intersection in the city.

Done!

[RO_Resident]

I am working to submit a USDOT grant appliction to put the poles in on Woodward Avenue between 9 mile and 15 mile. I have no idea if I can do this or if the municipalities will even want it, but I have my first meeting with a grant writer on Friday. It's part of this Woodward Project that I've discussed on a seperate thread.

I don't know if you have contacted MDOT about the grant. There is no way your grant would even pass the barest inspection without the permission of the road owner.

Otherwise, contact the Woodward Avenue Action Association. They have some good resources about how they want to leverage the fact that the road is a national scenic byway.
http://www.woodwardavenue.org/upload...0616114447.pdf

[thomprod]

...The technology is available [[and not ridiculously expensive) to embed sensors within the pavement, at measured distances, in each lane as it approaches the intersection. The length of the green light for each cycle is determined by the number of cars queued up. If there's no car at all in a lane [[e.g left turn), that green light is skipped altogether in the cycle, unless a pedestrian hits the Walk button.

At 12am, when you're the only one around, all of the lights are either green, or turn green in short order, as soon as you drive over the sensor...

A variation on this sytem was installed at many intersections in Oakland County about six years ago. It's called FAST-TRAC and uses camera-like digital video imaging devices [[known as Autoscope cameras) looking down at traffic approaching the intersections from each direction. In theory, the system adjusts the length of the green cycles [[and turn arrows, if any) to minimize the wait time for a signal to turn green in your direction when there is little or no traffic in the crossing direction. In practice, the signals are programmed to have a very limited range of adjustment so that there is still a lot of time spent waiting at a red light when no one is crossing your path.