Detroit Business Owner Complains about Police

**CLAUDE G** · September-02-10, 12:53 AM

Sad but true. The problem is That now he is complaining, you think the police are going to treat him any different than they did before?

I have a business in Detroit also, and If I was getting broken u
Into every 5 months and loosing $30,000 it would be cheaper to hire a security guard or maybe invest in remote video monitoring

The other thing you can do is get a good relationship with the police when they are in your area. When the police patronize your business, take care of them good

Moving is an option, but that's a pain to relocate a business

**Zacha341** · September-02-10, 03:41 AM

Yeah, per the broadcast he relocated from Dearborn.... Why? And yeah he is really on the fast police response list now.

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

Sad but true. The problem is That now he is complaining, you think the police are going to treat him any different than they did before?

I have a business in Detroit also, and If I was getting broken u
Into every 5 months and loosing $30,000 it would be cheaper to hire a security guard or maybe invest in remote video monitoring

The other thing you can do is get a good relationship with the police when they are in your area. When the police patronize your business, take care of them good

Moving is an option, but that's a pain to relocate a business

**davewindsor** · September-02-10, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

I have a business in Detroit also, and If I was getting broken u
Into every 5 months and loosing $30,000 it would be cheaper to hire a security guard or maybe invest in remote video monitoring

I was thinking the same thing about the lax security. Video cameras with 9v telephone wire are $50 a piece. An old PC is like $100. Not that expensive to setup a camera system these days.

And if he has 30 employees, why can't he afford a security guard? Or he can run a night shift so there's someone always in the building.

Is it me or did someone else notice pane the cracked double pane glass exterior windows 38 seconds into the video. If someone is concerned about loosing $30,000 in inventory, why aren't there bars or a steel door covering up those windows at night? Even glass block would be 10 times better.

**professorscott** · September-02-10, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I was thinking the same thing about the lax security. Video cameras with 9v telephone wire are $50 a piece. An old PC is like $100. Not that expensive to setup a camera system these days.

And if he has 30 employees, why can't he afford a security guard? Or he can run a night shift so there's someone always in the building.

Is it me or did someone else notice pane the cracked double pane glass exterior windows 38 seconds into the video. If someone is concerned about loosing $30,000 in inventory, why aren't there bars or a steel door covering up those windows at night? Even glass block would be 10 times better.

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit. Security guards and video systems and bullet-resistant "glass" and bars over the doors and roll-down steel window coverings are all indications that public safety is an abject failure in Detroit.

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

**Crumbled_pavement** · September-02-10, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

This is something I've wondered about a lot in recent years. Why can't Detroit leaders put together a project to hire x amount of cops to patrol Detroit and get the crime down to an acceptable rate? There are all kinds of projects for things that may or may not work, yet no serious proposal to get uniforms on the streets and the equipment these officers need to do the job. Funds could come from the private sector as donations/investment, etc, or from public funding. I was thinking all throughout the Stimulus debate that if we must spend federal money to try to get the economy going, why couldn't Detroit use that money to hire police. Instead I saw City Council making block head proposals like using stimulus money to repair Cobo.

**ct_alum** · September-02-10, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

This is something I've wondered about a lot in recent years. Why can't Detroit leaders put together a project to hire x amount of cops to patrol Detroit and get the crime down to an acceptable rate? There are all kinds of projects for things that may or may not work, yet no serious proposal to get uniforms on the streets and the equipment these officers need to do the job. Funds could come from the private sector as donations/investment, etc, or from public funding. I was thinking all throughout the Stimulus debate that if we must spend federal money to try to get the economy going, why couldn't Detroit use that money to hire police. Instead I saw City Council making block head proposals like using stimulus money to repair Cobo.

They're too busy having sex with subordinates to think about silly little issues like protecting the public.

**Fnemecek** · September-02-10, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by ct_alum

They're too busy having sex with subordinates to think about silly little issues like protecting the public.

I don't buy that one. I've lived in other cities and know that sexual indiscretions are hardly unique to Detroit. If anything, the ones here have been rather mild in comparison.

The difference between Detroit and other cities is that they still get the job done, regardless of who or what they're sleeping with.

**ct_alum** · September-02-10, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

I don't buy that one. I've lived in other cities and know that sexual indiscretions are hardly unique to Detroit. If anything, the ones here have been rather mild in comparison.

The difference between Detroit and other cities is that they still get the job done, regardless of how or what they're sleeping with.

O.K., you're right - Then they're just incompetent - Makes it better, right?.

**Hermod** · September-02-10, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit. Security guards and video systems and bullet-resistant "glass" and bars over the doors and roll-down steel window coverings are all indications that public safety is an abject failure in Detroit.

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

Perfessor, it sounds like he tried to get rent "on the cheap" by renting a place in the city. Up to him whether or not the business "cost" of theft, robbery, vandalism, and arson outweigh the rent savings he is getting by being in the city.

When my father's place of work relocated from the Milwaukee and Russell area to Sherwood north of 8-mile in 1952, vandalism of employee cars in the parking lot went from endemic to zero.

**davewindsor** · September-02-10, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit. Security guards and video systems and bullet-resistant "glass" and bars over the doors and roll-down steel window coverings are all indications that public safety is an abject failure in Detroit.

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

Oh come on, there wasn't a crime problem in Detroit 5 years ago when he moved from Dearborn? I guess there weren't empty skyscrapers in downtown 5 years ago either. Has crime gotten worse in this city in the past 5 years? Hollywood has been making fun of Detroit's crime problem for decades. How could a business owner not expect this? These kind of precautions should be common sense in a big city with this kind of history. Why encourage crime? You don't leave your keys in the car parking in a big city like you might in a farming village. By the same token, if you don't take the right precautions, you're gonna get robbed. The sense of community is lost in a big city. People don't care what their neighbours are doing like in a village. Call me cynical, but that's just the way it is and the way it's gonna be. It's not gonna change. Period.

**Zacha341** · September-02-10, 09:36 AM

Well Ok... It does beg the question as to why he left Dearborn [[not that they don't have their problems, but their crime and theft percentile is much lower than many areas of Detroit). I work in Dearborn part-time and they have excellent police response.

So pragmatically speaking: If you CHOOSE to have, start or relocate a business in Detroit you must be vigilant and committed [[and able) put forth the substantial funds towards multiple levels of infrastructure to hold your own against crime such as repetitive trespass and theft.

UNTIL CRIME IS FULLY ADDRESSED: If you're not down for that kind of rigor of defense against bold-faced, matter-of-fact criminal activity upon your building and resources, don't bother [[this is especially true in certain areas of the city).

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Oh come on, there wasn't a crime problem in Detroit 5 years ago when he moved from Dearborn? I guess there weren't empty skyscrapers in downtown 5 years ago either. Has crime gotten worse in this city in the past 5 years? Hollywood has been making fun of Detroit's crime problem for decades. How could a business owner not expect this? These kind of precautions should be common sense in a big city with this kind of history. Why encourage crime? You don't leave your keys in the car parking in a big city like you might in a farming village. By the same token, if you don't take the right precautions, you're gonna get robbed. The sense of community is lost in a big city. People don't care what their neighbours are doing like in a village. Call me cynical, but that's just the way it is and the way it's gonna be. It's not gonna change. Period.

**Danny** · September-02-10, 09:52 AM

Starting a business in Detroit's ghettohood is like starting a business in a local wild west town. Be vigilant, packing heat, set your alarm, have your guard dogs ready, have your buddy with with when open and close your business and you're survive.

I know for sure that in most Downtown Detroit Businesses. You would almost NEVER enter any office building without sigining in with a security guard for your appointment.

**cman710** · September-02-10, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

The sense of community is lost in a big city. People don't care what their neighbours are doing like in a village. Call me cynical, but that's just the way it is and the way it's gonna be. It's not gonna change. Period.

Dave, I disagree that this can never change. In New York City, there has been quite a change from 20 years ago, when crime was at a historic high. When police do not respond even remotely quickly to problems, people are less likely to bother to call. And when everyone needs to make their businesses a fortress to combat crime, it only reinforces the isolation people feel with respect to one another. If the police started to respond more quickly and could deter more crime, I think you would see more people acting like people would in a village.

**Fnemecek** · September-02-10, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Oh come on, there wasn't a crime problem in Detroit 5 years ago when he moved from Dearborn? I guess there weren't empty skyscrapers in downtown 5 years ago either.

Oh, there was crime in Detroit 5 years ago. However, there was also a mayor who gave everyone a sales pitch about how things were going to get better soon. Investing in Detroit now was your opportunity to get in on the ground floor of something amazing.

This guy obviously believed him.

Since then, two other mayors have given Detroit another sales pitch about how something is going to happen to turn Detroit around. Neither of them have proven to be anymore effective than the first guy.

If people are going to blame this guy for anything, it should be for being foolish enough to listen to politicians and believe their promises.

Pingu · September-02-10, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit. Security guards and video systems and bullet-resistant "glass" and bars over the doors and roll-down steel window coverings are all indications that public safety is an abject failure in Detroit.

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

You don't understand, Professor Scott. It's the business owner's fault that he doesn't have enough security! Hell, the police have even stated he's had a few false alarms! Jeepers, he shouldn't be complaining, he should be beefing up his security like the other posters have stated. Shame on him for complaining!

**Zacha341** · September-02-10, 09:27 AM

Don't forget the 'scrappers'. A business in the city also often has to install razor wire and metal bar enclosures for their roof air conditioning and heating units, etc. Otherwise these items are removed as well. You can see the steel cages and razor wire on the roofs of many stores and larger churches to prevent this. It's getting ridiculous. A family member tried desperately to start a business and just gave up, relocating to where it was less of an issue. Allowing him to free up assets to grow the business...

It's incredible and flies in the face of the "crime is the same everywhere" ditty you hear.

Originally Posted by professorscott

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit. Security guards and video systems and bullet-resistant "glass" and bars over the doors and roll-down steel window coverings are all indications that public safety is an abject failure in Detroit.

Police response time in Detroit, unfortunately, is a part of the death spiral we are trying to get out of. Crime means fewer people which means less tax revenue which means fewer police which means longer response time which means more crime which means [[etc.) Where it started isn't relevant; the question is, how do we get out of it?

**iheartthed** · September-02-10, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

You're missing the point completely. His other option is to relocate in the suburbs and not have to pay for any of that kind of shit.

I'd like to know the planet for which this is true.

This is also completely irrelevant to the point that the police response is slow. Even in cities where the police response [[on average) is much faster than Detroit, businesses routinely employ night watch guards and expensive security system.

**Fnemecek** · September-02-10, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'd like to know the planet for which this is true.

Earth.

This is also completely irrelevant to the point that the police response is slow. Even in cities where the police response [[on average) is much faster than Detroit, businesses routinely employ night watch guards and expensive security system.

Except all those things usually do is alert the police when a robbery is in progress. If the police don't respond to catch the bad guys in the act, there's not a lot of point of having a security system.

Besides, what makes you think the guy doesn't already have an expensive security system?

In their response, the police department spokesperson said that they responded to calls at that location and concluded that it was a "false alarm". [[Possibly, it was a true false alarm. Also, possible that a break in happen but the perpetrator had fled the scene by the time the call came in.)

Either way, it's hard to have a call coded as a "false alarm" unless there's an alarm system in place.

**iheartthed** · September-02-10, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

Except all those things usually do is alert the police when a robbery is in progress. If the police don't respond to catch the bad guys in the act, there's not a lot of point of having a security system.

Besides, what makes you think the guy doesn't already have an expensive security system?

I refute none of this and I am also not speculating that the guy doesn't already have an expensive system. I'm challenging that forumers claim that a security system wouldn't be necessary in the suburbs. Quick[[er) response times by the police doesn't necessarily lessen the need for a security system.

**Zacha341** · September-02-10, 03:40 PM

You're right, you'd be foolish NOT to have an alarm and other security options in the suburbs... and I'd prefer steel doors on any home I live in no matter where...

But in many suburbs you don't see the big loops or razor and barbed wire, rounding off roofs, and fences and other extreme measures that are standard in the city right now...

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I refute none of this and I am also not speculating that the guy doesn't already have an expensive system. I'm challenging that forumers claim that a security system wouldn't be necessary in the suburbs. Quick[[er) response times by the police doesn't necessarily lessen the need for a security system.