I submit to you two of today's Freep articles

[maxx]

Detroitpole: This strikes me as moronic. I know it is uncharitable to say, since this road to hell is paved with the best intentions, but I'm SO sick of these PR campaigns. This is going to be another "Say nice things about Detroit" with the puppy with the gun to his head.

Detroit needs both SW Solutions and a positive PR campaign. I remember the New York campaign with Yul Brynner leading a throng of people in Times Square singing "I love New York". I think it was around the time when New York needed to be bailed out. Detroit needs some positive thinking.

[bailey]

The role of the rest of us who truly care about all of Detroit is endure their whining and defeatism and get on with the task of healing our city and facing our common challenges. To borrow terminology of this forum we need to switch on the ignore function.

I could not disagree more with that last part. The real role of the rest of us who truly care about Detroit is to move from our safe suburban cities, exurbs, and far away locales and stop pretending that a few nights out, an annual bike ride around belle isle, and season tickets to sporting events give us any real ownership stake or say about how the city is run. Those that 'truly' care need to take an equity stake in the city by moving there, living there, voting there, and paying taxes there. But like so many here on this board and in the region, I'm not about to do that because putting my money where my mouth is would impact me negatively for years. There is no "upside" to me moving a few blocks south of where I live just to "make a difference" because I've been here long enough to know my "difference" wouldn't make any. It would just be another drop in the leaky bucket that is Detroit. Besides, I don't want to pay 300.00 extra to have my garbage picked up. I already get screwed on my insurance by living in an inner ring, I don't need to pay more moving less than a mile. I like curbside recycling. I like my safe suburb. I like having police and fire response being measured in seconds not hours. should i have kids, the schools are top notch and elementary, middle and high schools are walking distance from my house..well virtually any house as the district does not bus. I like the parks and the lake access blocks from my house. I like that even in this decline, I'm still not underwater on my house [[close..but I'd still break slightly above even).

I know I could have 4 times the house I do now if I bought in IV or BE or wherever. I liked working there [[until my office was moved out of Detroit) and I like my quick access to downtown without having to actually live in the city and deal daily with its colossal problems. Frankly it's clearly going to be an issue for detroit to recover if those of us closest to it with a lot of vested interest in seeing it successful either won't live there or come up with grandiose rationalizations why living in a suburbs is close enough to count...as in this suburban advertising genius.

[Gistok]

Well then... for someone whe DOESN'T live in Detroit.... you never seem to be at a loss for words about how things should be done there.....

[fryar]

DetroitPole, I'll say that I can understand your being a little touchy about suburbanites coming off as condescending when they articulate a plan to "save" Detroit when you've been living in the city for so many years, working to be an outpost of humanity and no doubt putting up with a lot of bs from your former neighbors who have up and left. I imagine you get discredited as a broken heart idealist dreamer type who just doesn't want to let go from time to time. I sometimes imagine those outposts of humanity on blighted blocks may feel the same way when the issue of shrinking the city is raised. I don't think it's a bad idea if suburbanites take an interest in what's happening in the city, however. You've got to admit this is one form of the oft-desired reduction in the fractionalization of Metro Detroit. And if you take that idea further, we have to conclude that it is not critical that everyone move back to Detroit so long as we end the fractionalization. Of course it is important that there be a tax base, but nothing is accomplished by an Us-Vs-Them mentality. Some people will want to live in an edgy city, and some people will want to live in a leafy suburb, all of which is fine so long as the communities have healthy relations.

As a former and possibly future "carpetbagger," I don't go around saying I'm from Detroit per se, but I will freely say that I lived there for a while. I do enjoy wearing my Arsenal of Democracy t-shirt around, but that's in part because you don't see that kind of thing a lot - which is also why I plug it here; I have no financial or personal interest in that company. It's a nice contrast to the ole We Missed Ya The First Time t-shirt. I mean, I challenge you to come up with a better positive Detroit t-shirt that isn't sports-related. Any takers?

Meanwhile, I get a kick out of that shirt, and once in a while it generates sort of a nod or something, but around here [[suburban NY), I can't say it clears the room, as Curtis says saying he [[she?) is from Detroit does wherever he [[she?) is saying it. In fact, that comment makes me laugh. Does mentioning Detroit give everyone a hankering for an American/Lafayette Coney or Sweetwater's wings or something, and so they all bolt for the exit? Do they all suddenly think he [[she?) must be urban, and maybe armed, and is going to jump them? It clears the room? Weird. I could see someone's expression registering mild surprise, but a room clearer?

English, that was a nice comment, it brought an interesting angle to this whole fractionalization business, and that it actually creates a bullshit paradigm. So you ended up living out in the burbs, where you feel some maybe count you as a former urbanite, maybe with certain implications? That's kind of how I'm reading your comment. Well, don't mind the lowbrows, they're not worth the time and attention.

[English]

English, that was a nice comment, it brought an interesting angle to this whole fractionalization business, and that it actually creates a bullshit paradigm. So you ended up living out in the burbs, where you feel some maybe count you as a former urbanite, maybe with certain implications? That's kind of how I'm reading your comment. Well, don't mind the lowbrows, they're not worth the time and attention.

My entire extended family moved out of the city during the Kilpatrick administration. Except for two families of second cousins who can't sell, people started leaving around the middle of last decade.

The entire time I was in Ann Arbor, I was a Detroiter. I have the feeling that if I'd stayed there for the rest of my life, I'd still be a Detroiter. Ann Arbor's a great place [[I can say that without malice now that my ordeal is over), but it's not where I'm from.

[bailey]

Well then... for someone whe DOESN'T live in Detroit.... you never seem to be at a loss for words about how things should be done there.....

Do not now, doesn't mean never did. When I returned to the metro area after living elsewhere I rented in Detroit for a while. Initially I intended to stay longer as I was used to and wanted a more "city" lifestyle. The experience was a short lived and expensive eye opener.

Allegedly I am the prime demographic Detroit wishes to attract. Solidly generation x, "educated", employed and middle class. I think I can offer an opinion on what needs to change before I move back there. I also think I can offer an opinion on what needs to happen regionally to keep me here at all.

as a p.s.... offering an opinion about what needs to change to make it more attractive to me and perhaps similarly situated individuals is far different from claiming I am a "detroiter" because I spend a lot of time there and "identify" with it [[as that silly ad woman was). One is not a Detroiter simply by living nearby. I'm not St Clair Shorser because I live near SCS, am I? One doesn't get a real say in what happens there unless one lives there. The city would be a whole lot different if those who claim they are a "Detroiter" and claim to "love Detroit" would leave the exurbs and move there. If you're a "believer"...why are you living in Bloomfield hills?

[DetroitPole]

Well this worthless resident of a fucked up city that would cease to exist without the benevolence of you and your merciful suburban friends is thankful that you continue to bless even with our screwed up attitudes. We are not worthy of your extreme generosity but appreciate your sacrifices even though we're no where near deserving of it and are in no position to help ourselves or help you help us.

THANK YOU.

Way to be a brown-noser too, Plymouth. You sicken me. Thanks for saving our "fucked up" city though. You're so kind and self-righteous at that.

There are plenty of perfectly fine suburbs and suburbanites but in large part the greater region is built upon sprawl and hatred of Detroit, IMO.

Also, to say the suburbs saved the city...well, where do you think those 1 million residents went and took their money with them to?

Detroit absolutely needs the suburbs. Run the rail line to Birmingham and Pontiac or it will be useless. However, the suburbs probably need Detroit even more.

I'm just tired of all the PR campaigns and all the happy-clappy kum-bay-ya PC bullshit. I'm sorry, it is great if you love Detroit and like to hang out there, but that isn't going to save the city. The city needs people. Maybe it doesn't need to be you, but it is an undeniable fact. We don't need slogans or banners or rallys. I lift Detroit by paying my goddamn property taxes.

[bartock]

THANK YOU.

Way to be a brown-noser too, Plymouth. You sicken me. Thanks for saving our "fucked up" city though. You're so kind and self-righteous at that.

There are plenty of perfectly fine suburbs and suburbanites but in large part the greater region is built upon sprawl and hatred of Detroit, IMO.

Also, to say the suburbs saved the city...well, where do you think those 1 million residents went and took their money with them to?

Detroit absolutely needs the suburbs. Run the rail line to Birmingham and Pontiac or it will be useless. However, the suburbs probably need Detroit even more.

I'm just tired of all the PR campaigns and all the happy-clappy kum-bay-ya PC bullshit. I'm sorry, it is great if you love Detroit and like to hang out there, but that isn't going to save the city. The city needs people. Maybe it doesn't need to be you, but it is an undeniable fact. We don't need slogans or banners or rallys. I lift Detroit by paying my goddamn property taxes.

In all sincerity, this would make a fantastic slogan.

[313WX]

I always thought the average suburbanite said they lived in SE Michigan.

Silly me.

[1KielsonDrive]

I'm sorry to have to say this to the 'Detroit Savers' posting here at DY, I have no plans to save Detroit. Most of the people I've known during my lifetime who wanted to save Detroit, much like I did in a different lifetime, have long since moved on. You can only spend so much of your energy and life fighting an entrenched, uncaring, bureaucracy. I still love Detroit, but I can't save Detroit in my remaining lifetime. At some point in everyone's life, they make decisions that go against everything they may have previously held dear. Living and owning businesses and property in Detroit is one of those decisions I made years ago.