Brick trouble at Wurlitzer

**buildingsofdetroit** · August-14-10, 07:48 PM

The bricks at the top are pulling away from the rest of the building along the alley the Wurlitzer shares with the Metropolitan Building. You might want to watch your head if you're walking back there. A brick from that height is guaranteed to kill ya.

Photo:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7670408_n.jpg

**Whitehouse** · August-14-10, 07:50 PM

Fire, fire, bricks.... Detroit is falling apart much faster...

**buildingsofdetroit** · August-14-10, 08:03 PM

DetroitUrbex just linked me to this HORRIFYING photo from the Metropolitan. Look at that buckle! The whole damn top of the building is going to go!
http://detroiturbex.com/dycontent/_MG_0626.jpg

**Whitehouse** · August-14-10, 08:14 PM

In itelf a nice picture, weren't it for the grave situation at hand.... Did anyone alert city officials? There should be barriers on the sidewalk and some emergency construction to hold it all in place or salvage the stonework before it falls to pieces on the pavement. If this falls, the debris won't be limited to the sidewalk.

If there was ever an opportunity to prevent lawsuits....
Who owns the building?

**wolverine** · August-14-10, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

In itelf a nice picture, weren't it for the grave situation at hand.... Did anyone alert city officials? There should be barriers on the sidewalk and some emergency construction to hold it all in place or salvage the stonework before it falls to pieces on the pavement. If this falls, the debris won't be limited to the sidewalk.

If there was ever an opportunity to prevent lawsuits....
Who owns the building?

Yeah, but when has that ever happened in Detroit? I mean do they even inspect buildings like they are supposed to? I've noticed for sometime both buildings have shown this type of problem. It was bad then, but now it has definitely gotten far worse.

**R8RBOB** · August-14-10, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

DetroitUrbex just linked me to this HORRIFYING photo from the Metropolitan. Look at that buckle! The whole damn top of the building is going to go!
http://4000loavesanhour.com/leninstomb/_MG_0626.jpg

Years of neglect will do that to any building. Let's face it. Detroit have buildings that are standing on its last legs. Not every building can be the Book Cadillac or the Fort Shelby. Some buildings like the Wurlitzer need to come down and sadly nature will bring the building down before the city will.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-15-11, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Years of neglect will do that to any building. Let's face it. Detroit have buildings that are standing on its last legs. Not every building can be the Book Cadillac or the Fort Shelby. Some buildings like the Wurlitzer need to come down and sadly nature will bring the building down before the city will.

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

**rjlj** · July-15-11, 01:19 PM

Strongly Agree.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

**ghettopalmetto** · July-28-11, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

How do we educate people about what constitutes a quality building?

Brick cladding pulling away from a building has NOTHING to do with whether the building needs to be demolished. That would be like demolishing the building because the roof has a leak.

Everyone needs to stop worrying that just because some brick falls, it means anything at all about structural integrity. It does not. Every brick can fall, and the steel superstructure of most buildings will stand.

Now of course the bricks falling are deadly. And facade failure is an indication of pathetic maintenance. That same water-intrusion can and will get to the steel eventually.

The Wurlitzer building is every bit as high-quality as the Fort Shelby or Book Cadillac. Steel superstructure, concrete fireproofing, and masonry cladding.

The only reason we didn't see this with those buildings is that they were probably better maintained during their lifetime. If you do maintenance to a masonry-clad building, it will last forever. If you don't, then the brick cladding will fall eventually.

For starters, any sort of historic preservation ordinance with teeth would require the written opinion of a licensed Professional Engineer with regards to structural integrity. In that way, you avoid the scads of armchair engineers [[George Jackson) who don't exactly make decisions with a full array of facts.

Disclosure: While I am a structural engineer, I'm not licensed in the State of Michigan, so do not consider my statement above to be a solicitation for work or as advocating my own self-interest.

**Rocko** · July-28-11, 03:37 PM

For starters, any sort of historic preservation ordinance with teeth would require the written opinion of a licensed Professional Engineer with regards to structural integrity. In that way, you avoid the scads of armchair engineers [[George Jackson) who don't exactly make decisions with a full array of facts.

And such a report would likely come back: "Structure, good condition." "Exterior masonry facing, peeling away but in good shape." Masonry is removed and reanchored all the time to historic buildings. The fact is that the metal anchors often wear out long before the masonry [[brick, stone, terra cotta, etc.) and mortar does. It's no problem to pull the masonry off, pull the old anchors, put in new stainless anchors, and reassemble the face.

Historic Preservation: not as dumb as you might think!

**mikefmich** · August-15-10, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

DetroitUrbex just linked me to this HORRIFYING photo from the Metropolitan. Look at that buckle! The whole damn top of the building is going to go!
http://detroiturbex.com/dycontent/_MG_0626.jpg

Thats a nice touch.....crumbling bldg. perils people below, with a nice view of a $400 million new sports stadium.

I can literally say, what's wrong with this picture?

**Meddle** · August-15-10, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

DetroitUrbex just linked me to this HORRIFYING photo from the Metropolitan. Look at that buckle! The whole damn top of the building is going to go!

On the other hand, it's got a nice start on rooftop greenspace

Originally Posted by mikefmich

Thats a nice touch.....crumbling bldg. perils people below, with a nice view of a $400 million new sports stadium.

I can literally say, what's wrong with this picture?

One word; Illitch

**detroitbob** · August-15-10, 04:20 AM

One word; Illitch[/quote]

Pardon me for missing the point, but what are you blaming Illitch for...

DC48080 · August-15-10, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

One word; Illitch

Ilitch does not own this one. The Wurlitzer is owned by Paul Curtis whose wife is Daphne Means Curtis, a judge in the 3'rd Circuit Court civil division.

I doubt there is much likelyhood of any legal action being taken against him by the city.

**buildingsofdetroit** · August-14-10, 08:23 PM

Classic textbook example of demolition by neglect.

**R8RBOB** · August-14-10, 08:34 PM

This reminds me of the show Life After People when they show the decay of buildings and monuments after man has been wiped out. Here you have a building that has been closed since 1982. That's 28 years of no maintenance. No attempts to stop the elements from wrecking havoc on the building. Richard Pryor once make a joke about trying to hold water back. You will not hold water back which is why those bricks are ready to burst.

**detroiturbex** · August-14-10, 08:25 PM

This picture is from September, 2009: http://detroiturbex.com/dycontent/IMG_9545.jpg

**Patrick** · August-14-10, 08:31 PM

Just how much longer can a vacant building last with Michigan's changing seasons?

**Whitehouse** · August-14-10, 08:41 PM

Maybe I should write to the Freep or Dnews to bring this to their attention. Who knows, a letter from a foreigner could get some attention.

Rather unbelievable that a building with such a vista is not on the market. I mean, what baseball fan would not want to live with THAT view of Comerica park.

**papillonaquatique** · August-14-10, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Whitehouse

Rather unbelievable that a building with such a vista is not on the market. I mean, what baseball fan would not want to live with THAT view of Comerica park.

Amen! Now that is a view worth paying for! Is that building condemned currently or is there some chance that it might be saved still? That view is worth saving that is for damn sure!

**BrushStart** · August-15-10, 12:13 AM

The Wurlitzer is in such a prime location. I can't believe that nobody is interested in stabilizing that building in hope of future development. Whoever owns it must be a complete moron. It would cost hundreds of millions more to reconstruct a building of that size in that location than it would to renovate the Wurlitzer no matter its physical condition. How could anyone let such a massive investment fall apart due to pure neglect?

**kahnman** · August-15-10, 01:09 AM

In the one photo, on the left side of the building, the top cornice section is separating and getting ready to spill a couple of hundred pounds of prime terracotta on someone or something!

Stay well away from this building if you value your life or property. Someone locally should contact a responsible city official [[oxymoron?) and get this property taped off, pronto.

**claireianthelibrarian** · August-15-10, 01:49 AM

Bowing like that doesn't mean the building has to go, necessarily. The top few feet, if not the entire top floor, would need to be taken down and relaid by a mason and his/her crew. And safety fencing should probably be put up. But it's not necessarily a death knell to the building. This high up, it would be some pretty damn serious and pricey work, but still.

Mortar wasn't always as cementy and gluey as it is now. A lot of the way that older masonry holds together is its weight, from the top down. There is no extra weight of other stories of bricks on those top rows to keep them in place. That's why the tops of these buildings sometimes bow or crumble off, when the rest of the building's outer structure isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I haven't been in here so I'm no expert, but.... My two cents, from what I can tell through those photos.

**Russix** · August-31-10, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by claireianthelibrarian

Bowing like that doesn't mean the building has to go, necessarily. The top few feet, if not the entire top floor, would need to be taken down and relaid by a mason and his/her crew. And safety fencing should probably be put up. But it's not necessarily a death knell to the building. This high up, it would be some pretty damn serious and pricey work, but still.

Mortar wasn't always as cementy and gluey as it is now. A lot of the way that older masonry holds together is its weight, from the top down. There is no extra weight of other stories of bricks on those top rows to keep them in place. That's why the tops of these buildings sometimes bow or crumble off, when the rest of the building's outer structure isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I haven't been in here so I'm no expert, but.... My two cents, from what I can tell through those photos.

Since this brick is not load bearing, could we form some sort of "Building Patrol" and fire projectiles at it to bring about a controlled collapse of these dangerous loose bricks? Those fire escapes are mounted into the concrete load bearing pillars behind the brick facade and shouldn't be affected unless too much weight from falling brick is added to them. Maybe some sort of hard plastic cover on top to deflect them down to the street below? Seems alot cheaper to knock the failed bricks off the side of the building then pony up for the complete demolition.

**Gistok** · August-31-10, 02:58 AM

Funny that someone mentioned "Ilitch"....

Back when the United Artists Building closed in the early 1970s... AAA Michigan sold all the theatre fixtures and furniture... and moved to Dearborn.

Then in the 1980s on the Clifford Ave. side of the UA Building... a hail of masonry bricks fell off of the UA Building and landed on some very unfortunate crushed cars [[no injuries fortunately)... and Clifford Ave. was closed for one block for many years, until that facade was stabalized [[removing more bricks).

Then came the Grossman and Barden years at the UA... and finally the many years of Ilitch ownership... "benign neglectors" all....

And now Ilitch is renovating the UA Building... starting with the inside.... and one day they'll get to the outside... likely when a new Arena location is announced.

So for all complaining we do about "Ilitch" [[much of it deserved)... when it comes to buildings with masonry falling down.... it doesn't necessarily mean the demise of a building...

So I'm not going to be quite so pessimistic about the Wurlitzer... but it's time for the owner to get off his ass, and sell the damn building... and not for a ridiculous $2 million.