President Obama stands up for Ground Zero mosque

[maxx]

Nice strawman, Papasito. Now show how it pertains to the real world.

[Papasito]

Now show how it pertains to the real world.

How about the constant attacks on Christians when it comes to thier faith. Being belittled by athiests. Wanting to take away "In God We Trust", "Christ"mas, get those crosses off the side of the road!!, don't tell me about your holier than thou perspective, those darn Christians are always shoving thier religion on others, I don't care if they worship just keep it out of my sight.

When it comes to Islam, people swoon. It's so wonderful! Mixing church and state when it comes to Islam is A-OK, because it's the "Culture".

The two religions are on a double standard when it comes to the American people/politics.
I am not a right wing religious nut, I am just pointing out the obvious.
If people can't see the difference they are asleep at the wheel or wearing blinders.

When, EVER, has the ACLU stepped up to get an Islamic item removed from public property?

[oladub]

Papasito, Along those same lines, Supreme Court Judge Breyer compared burning Korans with shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater because of 'global considerations' which seems to outweigh the Constitutional consideration of making no law abridging free speech.

"And you can say -- with the Internet, you can say this. You can't shout fire in a crowded theater. Holmes said it doesn't mean you can shout 'fire' in a crowded theater. Well, what is it? Why? Because people will be trampled to death. And what is the crowded theater today? What is the being trampled to death? It will be answered over time in a series of cases which force people to think carefully." -Judge Breyer

The Koran and Justice Breyer

[maxx]

How about the constant attacks on Christians when it comes to thier faith. Being belittled by athiests.

I am an equal-opportunity critic of religions.

Wanting to take away "In God We Trust", "Christ"mas, get those crosses off the side of the road!!,

The U.S. is a secular nation. Period. Religionists are trying to convince their followers that it is not secular by rewriting history, often by plain misrepresenting historic events. Public property is exactly that, PUBLIC property. The U.S. is a diverse nation with many cultures and belief systems. Live with it. And explain to me why xtians cannot be happy with their creches on their own property which is unfortunately subsidized with taxpayer dollars. Why do they insist on putting their crosses and other symbols on public property except as an act of domination? It reminds me of what Ayaan Hirsi Ali said about the symbolism of the minaret and why the Swiss refused to allow minarets.

don't tell me about your holier than thou perspective,

I don't even discuss anyone's holiness, so you are just blowing hot air here.

those darn Christians are always shoving thier religion on others,

I don't use extreme words like "always". That's your song and dance. I am very careful to qualify my statements. I talk about the attempts to foist creationism on the public schools which has only made their cause look stupid at best and has cost schools millions that were better spent educating.

I don't care if they worship just keep it out of my sight.

I have never said that. That is your fantasy. I say that I don't care what people believe in as long as your beliefs don't affect my life.

When it comes to Islam, people swoon. It's so wonderful! Mixing church and state when it comes to Islam is A-OK, because it's the "Culture".

Again, who are you referring to? You exaggerate like a middle school girl.

The two religions are on a double standard when it comes to the American people/politics.

You enjoy demonizing an entire group because of the actions of a few. Xtianity has its nuts too, you know. Some xtian Dominionists would like to turn this country into a theocracy complete with OT laws. You sound like the sort of person who prefers to scream at and bomb people rather than trying to educate people. Your hysteria over sharia in this country overlooks the obvious that the Jews have their own rabbinic courts for domestic issues here.

When, EVER, has the ACLU stepped up to get an Islamic item removed from public property?

Where is there such an "item"?

[Papasito]

Embracing Islam is politically correct.
Embracing Christianity is not.



look who's being a typical judgemental elitest.....
Your disgust and anger toward others who have thier own opinion is apparant.
Your belittling of Christianity while lacking the courage to belittle other faiths is obvious.
You don't have the courage to belittle Islam because
1) Your political party deems it politcally incorrect
2) Islam fights back
3) You are scared

you are just blowing hot air

That is your fantasy.

You exaggerate like a middle school girl

You sound like the sort of person

And of course... this is a laugh

I am an equal-opportunity critic of religions.

explain to me why xtians cannot be happy

Mmmm hmmmm.

You enjoy demonizing an entire group because of the actions of a few.

And you assume too much. If you have the ability to read,
I already posted several times in favor of the moque being built.

You enjoy demonizing an entire group because of the actions of a few.

I think you missed the entire point of my post. My point was not to demonize Islam/Muslims.
My point was that Islam and Christianity are treated completely different by the Media and the Government [[Politicians).

oladub
I find it impressive that a religious group is so powerful that it even causes our Justices to slant the Constitution due to the fear of potential repercussions from a Religious group. Just take a moment and absorb that.

[maxx]

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/id...ystical_power/
"... Many observers see a stark confrontation between the West and Islam, a global conflict that entered a traumatic new phase with the Iranian revolution. But that perspective ignores basic conflicts within the Muslim world itself, a global clash of values over the nature of religious practice, no less than overtly political issues. For the Islamists -- for hard-line fundamentalists like the Saudi Wahhabis and the Taliban -- the Sufis are deadly enemies, who draw on practices alien to the Quran.."

Papasito:I find it impressive that a religious group is so powerful that it even causes our Justices to slant the Constitution due to the fear of potential repercussions from a Religious group.

Please explain. And you still haven't explained the Islamic "item" of public land you want removed. And when have I even brought up the topic of holiness? You need to get away from worn-out phrases especially when they don't apply. And give some examples of someone "embracing Islam".

[oladub]

Papasitowrote: "I find it impressive that a religious group is so powerful that it even causes our Justices to slant the Constitution due to the fear of potential repercussions from a Religious group."

Maxx's reply, "Please explain. "

Please review the Judge Breyer quote and article link found in post # 253.

[Papasito]

"And you can say -- with the Internet, you can say this. You can't shout fire in a crowded theater. Holmes said it doesn't mean you can shout 'fire' in a crowded theater. Well, what is it? Why? Because people will be trampled to death. And what is the crowded theater today? What is the being trampled to death? It will be answered over time in a series of cases which force people to think carefully." -Judge Breyer

Judge Breyer equates excercising freedom of speech [[as distasteful as it is) by burning Korans to being trampled to death by screaming fire in a crowded theater. If that is not an obvious expression of Breyer's fear of the strength of radical Islam, I don't know what is.

[maxx]

Judge Breyer equates excercising freedom of speech [[as distasteful as it is) by burning Korans to being trampled to death by screaming fire in a crowded theater. If that is not an obvious expression of Breyer's fear of the strength of radical Islam, I don't know what is.

How is it different? Someone's use of the freedom of speech leads directly to the injury and deaths of others. A general in the field felt that his troops would be unduly harmed by all the publicity around that nut in Florida. Talk to the general about his fears.

[oladub]

How is it different? Someone's use of the freedom of speech leads directly to the injury and deaths of others. A general in the field felt that his troops would be unduly harmed by all the publicity around that nut in Florida. Talk to the general about his fears.

If Judge Breyer were on the bench in 1937, he would be making similar statements with regards to burning the Mein Kampf . Breyer is suggesting that foreigners should determine the interpretation of our Constitution. That gets pretty close to being treason. He took an oath to practice Constitional law not Sharia Law.

[maxx]

Breyer was talking about the responsibility that goes along with freedoms. Our security at home should not be jeopardized by the irresponsible actions of our own homegrown nutcakes.

[oladub]

Breyer was talking about the responsibility that goes along with freedoms. Our security at home should not be jeopardized by the irresponsible actions of our own homegrown nutcakes.

I won't dispute your characterization of the Koran burning preacher but no abridgement to the freedom of speech has always meant no exceptions. In the 1930's, brownshirts might indeed have responded with violence if some nutcase, out to provoke Nazis, in the US burned a pile of Mein Kampfs. You wouldn't want to upset the sensitivities of violent brownshirts would you? But think how ludicrous it would have been, in hindsight, to have reigned in our first amendment to keep Nazis appeased.

Since Judge Beyer seems to prefer Sharia law to the First Amendment, perhaps it is time we brush up on dhimmitude.

Robert Spencer author of The Myth of Islamic Tolerance defines dhimmitude as:

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, “protected” or “guilty” people, are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" [[Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring through violence to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race. -wikipedia

[maxx]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gra...worse-terroris
"...[Michael Moore said]

I am opposed to the building of the "mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero. I want it built on Ground Zero.

He says it's because Islam was "stolen" from the real Muslims at the Twin Towers, and it should be given back on the same spot.


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gra...#ixzz0zqO6JQzn

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan...ry?id=11569820
General Petraeus: Burn a Quran Day Could 'Endanger Troops'

[Zacha341]

Well stated. Indeed there is a 'double-standard', made even more peculiar in that often contemporary Islam [[as expressed in most Islamic-based countries) is inter-woven at the secular and religious fabric of government, policy directives and social structure.

Islamic law is expressed at the federal level clearly, not as a neutral, or 'suggested' option. Separation of church and state is a nil [[even as it interpreted and debated here) in the context of Islam.

Thus, the swooning of those who understand this [[explicitly) while at the same time full-on to remove all traces of Christianity here in the states.

The response is appropriate different, implicitly responsive and reflexive to the context of Islam. For the short term a decidedly 'different' response.

Though I'm not an atheist, I respect those atheist not SOLELY engaged in the Christianity debate noting the obvious 'pass' Islam garners from for example the ACLU.

How about the constant attacks on Christians when it comes to thier faith. Being belittled by athiests. Wanting to take away "In God We Trust", "Christ"mas, get those crosses off the side of the road!!, don't tell me about your holier than thou perspective, those darn Christians are always shoving thier religion on others, I don't care if they worship just keep it out of my sight.

When it comes to Islam, people swoon. It's so wonderful! Mixing church and state when it comes to Islam is A-OK, because it's the "Culture".

The two religions are on a double standard when it comes to the American people/politics.
I am not a right wing religious nut, I am just pointing out the obvious.
If people can't see the difference they are asleep at the wheel or wearing blinders.

When, EVER, has the ACLU stepped up to get an Islamic item removed from public property?

[Zacha341]

At least Moore is consistent. I've have to give him that. No surprise here...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gra...worse-terroris
"...[Michael Moore said]

I am opposed to the building of the "mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero. I want it built on Ground Zero.

He says it's because Islam was "stolen" from the real Muslims at the Twin Towers, and it should be given back on the same spot.


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-gra...#ixzz0zqO6JQzn

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan...ry?id=11569820
General Petraeus: Burn a Quran Day Could 'Endanger Troops'

[oldredfordette]

When has an Islamic item been placed on a public place?

[Zacha341]

! LOL! Funny that Christianity is so often solely and 'reflexively' touted as having an agenda - Hah, ha. I need to join one of the more neutral 'religions' -- one more soft and fuzzy.

View Of Religion By A Leftist:

Christian = Evil zealots, religion pimps, pushing thier agenda of blind faith and belief system on America. They are probably molesting little boys as they keep forcing the mix of Church and State. They need to keep thier faith and values to themselves!!
Muslim = Oh there's nothing negative about this faith at all. It's wonderful that they embrace thier culture and ideals here in America. Thier religion should be front and center! Sharia courts? Great Idea! After all, diversity and freedom of religion is what makes America great!

[oldredfordette]

Anyway, Papasito, when has an Islamic item been placed on a public place so it needs to be defended by the ACLU?

I'm happy to be a Christian who doesn't need to hate on other religions to satisfy a racist agenda.

http://www.iwj.org/template/index.cfm
http://www.sojo.net/

[maxx]

! LOL! Funny that Christianity is so often solely and 'reflexively' touted as having an agenda - Hah, ha. I need to join one of the more neutral 'religions' -- one more soft and fuzzy.

If they don't have an agenda, why are they rewriting history including denying the wall of separation and trying to foster distrust of science while touting creationism as a viable theory? Why do they demand that their symbols be put on public land and call for the saying of their prayers before many public events?

[Zacha341]

Different forms of Christianity may have agendas. I'm NOT debating or denying those particular agendas don't exist. HOWEVER the 'content' of said agendas which are NOT ALL THE SAME within the varied Christian denominations/ expressions.

My core comment is simply a statement of fact that Christianity is NOT 'exclusive' in having an agenda. Other belief systems often do as well.

If they don't have an agenda, why are they rewriting history including denying the wall of separation and trying to foster distrust of science while touting creationism as a viable theory? Why do they demand that their symbols be put on public land and call for the saying of their prayers before many public events?

[maxx]

Christianity is the dominant religion in the U.S., and therefore what they do represents the greatest threat to separation of church and state and to scientific and historic education here. I haven't noticed nonliteralists adequately countering the lies of the fundamentalists.

[maxx]

Colbert's answer to the Islamic Center:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_717606.html

[Detroitej72]

I am waiting for the cons to start an uprising over the mosque at the Pentagon, since that was a 9-11 target as well.

...nothing but crickets...

Where is Palin on this matter?