Breaking news -- Ilitch Wants to Buy the Pistons

lincoln8740 · August-10-10, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

Okay here is the scoop....I have friends in places that know of these things......this is the last year the Wings will play at the Joe....repairs to the ice area of the Palace will be repaired and the Wings will play 3 years in Auburn Hills until the new Wings/Piston stadium will be built on the property behind the Fox. You heard it here first......

I would have disagreed with you about the location of the new rink/court--lot across from motor city is perfect for the illitches--but now that the pistons are in play I highly doubt Stern would never allow an NBA team to play that close to a casino by choice. Betttman--would agree to it in a second.

I still wouldn't rule out that huge plot of land right there

**R8RBOB** · August-10-10, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit500

I think that Michael Rosenberg hit this on the head in his analysis in today's Free Press. Buying the Pistons gives the Illitches more time to decide how to proceed. Don't be surprised to see the Wings play in Auburn Hills until a new stadium is built [[and if a new stadium is built with taxpayer's dollars). The Palace is a state-of-the-art facility that would give the Illitches no time crunch to move their team out. In fact, let's face it, the only team that "needs" the new stadium is the Wings, the Pistons could play in the Palace another 20 years at least.

As for the argument the Silverdome is going to get all this trafic, I'm not sure I agree. People who live in the suburbs especially are in no hurry to pack their family for the day and go see something in Pontiac when the Palace is in such a nice location. Beyond that, the Silverdome just isn't as nice for concerts and such as the Palace has been. The Palace is one of the most premier entertainment venues for large concerts in the area. The Silverdome is dated, old, and ugly... and in Pontiac.

Can we retire the term "state of the art" when using it to reference the Palace? Sure the building is nice and PS&E have kept it up but the arena is 22 years old and the seats are tight as hell.

As for the sale of the Pistons. If Rosenberg is right about the so-called cost of the Pistons well there may be issues. Here's the thing. The Golden State Warriors was just sold for 450 million dollars and Oakland/Alameda Co. owns Oracle Arena. Rosenberg is saying the Pistons minus the Palace is worth 379 million dollars and that price is up for debate. I know the financial outlook here is tough but this is a franchise has brought in the money. The owners may have a say if a franchise that has been in the league for 69 years go below market value.

**professorscott** · August-10-10, 03:43 PM

Anybody see that graphic in the Freep that showed an extension of the People Mover to reach the new hockey arena and Ford Field? Where in hell did that come from? I've never heard of any serious discussion about expanding the People Mover at all.

Is Marsden Burger working in the graphic art department of the Free Press now?

**R8RBOB** · August-10-10, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Anybody see that graphic in the Freep that showed an extension of the People Mover to reach the new hockey arena and Ford Field? Where in hell did that come from? I've never heard of any serious discussion about expanding the People Mover at all.

Is Marsden Burger working in the graphic art department of the Free Press now?

Just checked it out. Don't know what to say about that....yes I do. It would be a waste of money especially if they get the go-ahead to lay the tracks for the M1. The M1 rail would ride right pass the current stadiums and if they build the arena on the corner.

**bailey** · August-10-10, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

Never said I knew where the money was coming from only the facts as those in the KNOW told me....as FACT!!

I don't doubt they'd eventually get back downtown. Illitch has been amassing land around the area. it makes sense etc. I just don't buy the time line given the local economics and the requirement that the money to build any new stadium comes at least partly in the form of subsidies. I'm thinking closer to 10 years.

**daddeeo** · August-10-10, 04:08 PM

What I find amazing is how the media is falling all over themselves slobbering about how great this all is. I'll be interested in what voters have to say about ponying up for a new stadium [[arena) for Mikey.
If he's got enough to buy the Pistons, let him pay for a new arena.
It's amazing how they've let Joe Louis go. Ever see how many loose seats they have down there that need replacing?
I'm not talking about nose bleed seats either. How about ones right by the glass behind the nets.
The cheer leaders in the press should take a step back and let some oxygen get back in their heads.

**R8RBOB** · August-10-10, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by daddeeo

What I find amazing is how the media is falling all over themselves slobbering about how great this all is. I'll be interested in what voters have to say about ponying up for a new stadium [[arena) for Mikey.
If he's got enough to buy the Pistons, let him pay for a new arena.
It's amazing how they've let Joe Louis go. Ever see how many loose seats they have down there that need replacing?
I'm not talking about nose bleed seats either. How about ones right by the glass behind the nets.
The cheer leaders in the press should take a step back and let some oxygen get back in their heads.

I agree about the media slobbering at the feet of the Ilitches. I stated that the deal would be a bad deal only because he has to take on more properties. The Pistons, yes only because they could be the other tenant but DTE, the Palace well I can't believe the Ilitches would really entertain having an monopoly on entertainment. Mike Ilitch buying PS&E is like Vince McMahon buying WCW. Once McMahon cornered the wrestling market for himself, his own brand regressed because he merged WCW into WWE and there was no competition. If Ilitch was to take Davidson's properties, the Fox, said new arena, the Palace, Comerica Park would all suffer under one owner.

**j32885** · August-10-10, 04:34 PM

I saw this on Yahoo!-Det News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/detroitnws/detroitnws_ts3379

More Concept Art:
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/ph...hockeystadium/

The last image is interesting, almost like this designer wants to included a Tennis Courts & a Baseball Park. Could this new arena go by the Tiger Stadium site?

This morning on 97.FM were talking about this design, and I don't care much for it.

I prefer the Olympia Stadium style seen here:
http://newolympia.blogspot.com/

I would rather have Mr. Ilich owning the team, rather seeing being own by a group of investors that would move the Detroit Pistons to another city. There were rumors flying a few weeks back about the Pistons going to Las Vegas. I don't want to see the Las Vegas Pistons happening. Mrs. Davidson is looking for the top dollar for the team, and Mr I now as the top bid.

**Detroit Stylin** · August-10-10, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by smogboy

I would say she's VERY business savvy. From what I heard earlier, there's some estate tax thing that would slap her senseless if she doesn't try to sell some of this stuff by year's end.

And quite honestly, she's going to have more money than she knows what to do with. Her heart just isn't into running a team like her late husband, Bill. Why hang onto something one has no conviction with other than to possibly "safeguard" the memory of your husband?

Good Point....

**artds** · August-10-10, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by d.mcc

Ever been to Baltimore, DC, NYC, Chicago, Miami???

Not saying Detroit is perfect, but seriously, don't be a moran

Your flawed logic fails to undermine my point.

And I'd expect that you'd be hard pressed to find any Detroit booster who lives in the suburbs who doesn't cite the city's violent crime rate as a contributing [[if not the deciding) factor as the reason why they don't live in the city.

**BShea** · August-10-10, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by daddeeo

What I find amazing is how the media is falling all over themselves slobbering about how great this all is. I'll be interested in what voters have to say about ponying up for a new stadium [[arena) for Mikey.
If he's got enough to buy the Pistons, let him pay for a new arena.
It's amazing how they've let Joe Louis go. Ever see how many loose seats they have down there that need replacing?
I'm not talking about nose bleed seats either. How about ones right by the glass behind the nets.
The cheer leaders in the press should take a step back and let some oxygen get back in their heads.

Some quick thoughts:

1. Voters approved the tourist tax in 1996 that partially paid for Comerica and Ford Field. Who knows if they will be asked again, or if public money in that form will be needed. There are various options to fund arenas. Cleveland uses a tax on liquor and tobacco, a sin tax. Either way, it's not taken out of general fund taxes. You're contributing to the cost of the arena under either model if you choose to use a cab or hotel. A lot of those folks aren't residents in the first place.
2. I doubt he's liquid enough to finance an arena himself up front. He did put up about 60 percent of the Comerica Park cost. No direct tax money was used for the remainder. It was bonds. Those stadiums, too, are owned by the public. They also made that part of Detroit much, much nicer than they were previously. I live just a few blocks away and much prefer the stadiums to some blighted buildings.
3. The city owns Joe Louis Arena.

**Searay215** · August-10-10, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't doubt they'd eventually get back downtown. Illitch has been amassing land around the area. it makes sense etc. I just don't buy the time line given the local economics and the requirement that the money to build any new stadium comes at least partly in the form of subsidies. I'm thinking closer to 10 years.

My orginal post was based on my discussions with people who work for the firm that is going to build the stadium and my insider at the Palace. These are very good placed sources.
So maybe I am wrong....only time will tell.....

**Detroit Stylin** · August-10-10, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Searay215

My orginal post was based on my discussions with people who work for the firm that is going to build the stadium and my insider at the Palace. These are very good placed sources.
So maybe I am wrong....only time will tell.....

Are there renderings somewhere?

**R8RBOB** · August-10-10, 08:23 PM

I'm curious to know what the bars like Cobo Joe, Cheli's and even Hockeytown Cafe are thinking? If Ilitch does get the package and move the Wings to Auburn Hills temporary I would think that they would seriously take a nosedive in profits.

**schulzte** · August-10-10, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by j32885

I saw this on Yahoo!-Det News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/detroitnws/detroitnws_ts3379

More Concept Art:
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/ph...hockeystadium/

The last image is interesting, almost like this designer wants to included a Tennis Courts & a Baseball Park. Could this new arena go by the Tiger Stadium site?

This morning on 97.FM were talking about this design, and I don't care much for it.

I prefer the Olympia Stadium style seen here:
http://newolympia.blogspot.com/

I would rather have Mr. Ilich owning the team, rather seeing being own by a group of investors that would move the Detroit Pistons to another city. There were rumors flying a few weeks back about the Pistons going to Las Vegas. I don't want to see the Las Vegas Pistons happening. Mrs. Davidson is looking for the top dollar for the team, and Mr I now as the top bid.

If you look at the featured architects previous projects on their website, those drawings are nothing but rehashes of previous designs, nothing original for the Red Wings project.

Good to see somebody likes my design better, despite its lack of refinement!

http://newolympia.blogspot.com

Stosh · August-10-10, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Detroit Stylin

Are there renderings somewhere?

Yes, above a few posts.

Now the crying and whining begins about the loss of the "intimate" JLA, which was largely pilloried for being "not like the Olympia"

Well, duh.

I for one think the New Olympia building will never be built. This is so because of the distinct lack of suites at or near ice level. The designer makes the mistake, as in JLA, of placing suites at nosebleed levels. Not gonna happen.

Reading the freep message boards, the knuckledraggers keep parroting the line that the Palace was purpose built for basketball. Anyone remember the Vipers?

Also idiots complaining that it's too "gheto" [[sic) down there.

My thoughts on the designs in the news is basically I love the concept. IF they include the solar panels and make it a truly green arena, great for them. Some may think it looks cheap, it well may be. But you can't beat the sight lines, and the sun lights are a great touch. I absolutely hate JLA, and wish it would just go away fast.

Just one more point. As drawn, the arena has a football stadium as well as tennis courts attached. Could this be associated with either Cass Tech or Wayne State? I wonder...

**Jason** · August-10-10, 10:20 PM

The renderings in that article are not in any way connected to the actual project. They're just some guy's renderings. And I'd bet everything that I own that that firm will not be getting the job. They won one award in 1991, and everything else they mentioned is from the 60s and 70s. From what I can tell none of it was actually built. Not that any of that is a bad thing, but it's not the level of expertise needed to actually take on the project.

imo, Rossetti will get the job. If you want to see what they've designed here's their website.
http://www.rossetti.com/

And here's Kadushin's website.
http://www.kadushin.org/

**papillonaquatique** · August-10-10, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Not to go off subject, but I have to agree about the pizza. Little Caesar's used have one of the best pizza. They were the one to coin "Pizza, Pizza" and I admit that when I moved to Cali they had better pizza but now the pizza is no better than the frozen shit you buy from the market.

The only difference is that frozen pizza tastes better. I used to work at a Little Caesars and I can honestly say that I may never eat another bite of that pizza again as long as I live.

**R8RBOB** · August-11-10, 12:22 PM

From the mouth of Pete Karmanos:

Said Karmanos: "I've looked at this whole Pistons and Red Wings and Joe Louis Arena and The Palace situation, and it's a real conundrum, because a lot of the Pistons' value is tied up in The Palace. But The Palace could end up being a white elephant like the Silverdome is, except that the team owns the building."

Karmanos said he doesn't know how he would solve the problem. He is confident, however, that given the Wings' intense following in the downriver area and in Canada, moving that team to The Palace would be a mistake.

"If the Ilitches decide to buy the Pistons, it's real interesting because you can't really move the Red Wings out to The Palace, you can't really leave The Palace empty and move the Pistons down to Joe Louis, because Joe Louis is on its last legs, and building a new arena would be like $400-$500 million.

"And the city of Detroit can't help with it, Wayne County can't help with it and the state of Michigan can't help with it. So someone would have to build it privately, which is an enormous task. So it's a real interesting problem, and I don't know what the solution is."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0wJpw4Wgp

EastSider · August-11-10, 01:09 PM

Well, shucks, if good ol' Petey can't see a solution, there must not be one! Garsh, what ever will we do?

I'm sorry, but Pete's opinions hold zero interest or credibility for me, after all we've learned about him and his shady dealings with KMK.

Pete, Dan Gilbert and Penske can all suck it.

lincoln8740 · August-11-10, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

From the mouth of Pete Karmanos:

Said Karmanos: "I've looked at this whole Pistons and Red Wings and Joe Louis Arena and The Palace situation, and it's a real conundrum, because a lot of the Pistons' value is tied up in The Palace. But The Palace could end up being a white elephant like the Silverdome is, except that the team owns the building."

Karmanos said he doesn't know how he would solve the problem. He is confident, however, that given the Wings' intense following in the downriver area and in Canada, moving that team to The Palace would be a mistake.

"If the Ilitches decide to buy the Pistons, it's real interesting because you can't really move the Red Wings out to The Palace, you can't really leave The Palace empty and move the Pistons down to Joe Louis, because Joe Louis is on its last legs, and building a new arena would be like $400-$500 million.

"And the city of Detroit can't help with it, Wayne County can't help with it and the state of Michigan can't help with it. So someone would have to build it privately, which is an enormous task. So it's a real interesting problem, and I don't know what the solution is."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...#ixzz0wJpw4Wgp

Build it with private funds--no slow unions, no requirements of hiring a certain percentage of detroiters[[in otherwords unqualified workers) and most importantly-- no oversight by any city, county, or state beuracrats. That's what Davidson did and the palace is still one of the top arenas in the country compared to the joe which is only 8 years? older.

Of course the easiest and cheapest solution is to move the wings to the palace and wait for the city or state to pony up the bucks for an arenadowntown.

**R8RBOB** · August-11-10, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

Build it with private funds--no slow unions, no requirements of hiring a certain percentage of detroiters[[in otherwords unqualified workers) and most importantly-- no oversight by any city, county, or state beuracrats. That's what Davidson did and the palace is still one of the top arenas in the country compared to the joe which is only 8 years? older.

Of course the easiest and cheapest solution is to move the wings to the palace and wait for the city or state to pony up the bucks for an arenadowntown.

I agree with Pete when he says that he don't see the Wings leaving Detroit for Auburn Hills. The Red Wings are tied in with a number of people who make money when the Red Wings are playing in downtown Detroit. Bars, casinos and parking all lose even if they move even temporary.

lincoln8740 · August-11-10, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I agree with Pete when he says that he don't see the Wings leaving Detroit for Auburn Hills. The Red Wings are tied in with a number of people who make money when the Red Wings are playing in downtown Detroit. Bars, casinos and parking all lose even if they move even temporary.

Don't fall for the whole "ohh the businees would be hurt" crap. Money is money and if he would be making more money at the palace and have a very big bargaining chip to force the city/state to give him money for a new arena, he would bolt in a second.

What would you do if you were illitch as far as if this deal goea through? Would you really keep your hockey team in a crappy city owned arena when you have a great arena right up the road that you just bought?

**Gistok** · August-11-10, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I agree with Pete when he says that he don't see the Wings leaving Detroit for Auburn Hills. The Red Wings are tied in with a number of people who make money when the Red Wings are playing in downtown Detroit. Bars, casinos and parking all lose even if they move even temporary.

Absolutely, moving the Red Wings to Auburn Hills for a few years will hurt MotorCity Casino. They get a big bump in business on game nights... not to mention that out of town hockey players generally also stay at the MotorCity Casino Hotel suites.

Eastsider... what an odd thing to say... that somehow Karmanos's affiliation to Kwame somehow makes him less knowledgeable when it comes to sports stadium issues.... Last time I checked he owns the Carolina Hurricanes... and you own no sports franchise... so that makes him "somewhat" more knowledgeable about such matters than you.

**p1acebo** · August-11-10, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

Don't fall for the whole "ohh the businees would be hurt" crap. Money is money and if he would be making more money at the palace and have a very big bargaining chip to force the city/state to give him money for a new arena, he would bolt in a second.

What would you do if you were illitch as far as if this deal goea through? Would you really keep your hockey team in a crappy city owned arena when you have a great arena right up the road that you just bought?

I mean the Palace is a better facility than the Joe but location is location. And I am sure some fan base down river and in Windsor would not make the trip to the Palace, especially with the horrific traffic that one would encounter.