If you're awake, get to MCS!!!

Blarf · August-07-10, 01:57 AM

LOL @ someone who thinks lights is seeping though the building and coming out the top floors.

**Brock7** · August-07-10, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by MysticalHalf

What hes seeing is the graffiti that is on the front of the building at the top, and its paint is just reflective to the camera

Matter of fact I think it says Save the Depot.

Now that you mention it, I can make out that the lights at the top do say "SAVE THE DEPOT". But those spots seem to be reflecting light too in the old postcard artwork.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · August-07-10, 06:18 AM

black letters on top of white paint, there's no window on those columns

Ravine · August-07-10, 06:53 AM

Summit Place Mall?
As a person who would rather not shop anywhere, ever, I don't know if that place is still open, but if it is open, and anyone is employed there or spends money there, any comparison to the thoroughly deceased train station is silly.
Some of you make the station sound as though it is, or was, a work of art. It's a building. It was a terrific, stately, and aesthetically impressive building, but still a building, and further, I don't understand how anyone can talk about "saving" a building whose insides are quite destroyed.
Sometimes I think some of you are saying stuff that you don't even truly believe, just to be in-step with the crowd.
Actually, I am 100% convinced that my last statement is true.
I'm trying to be charitable, by engaging that hypothesis.

**jcole** · August-07-10, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Blarf

LOL @ someone who thinks lights is seeping though the building and coming out the top floors.

LOL@someone who thinks this building is salvageable

**Hermod** · August-07-10, 07:40 AM

Do we need more rail passenger transport?
Yes we do.

Will that transport return us to the glory days of yesteryear?
No it won't

The future of rail passenger lies in commuter service and short hops of less than 300 miles. Anything longer than that will not be ued by business travellers and will be more of a "cruise ship" type of operation.

Would that effect MCS?
No it won't

AMshacks are adequate for most of the future passenger rail.

MCS was built to have an impressive station to enhance the corporate image PLUS provide working office space for the army of car clerks, freight clerks, and traffic clerks that freight railroads used to employ.

With all of the empty office space downtown, why do we need an office building out where MCS sits?

The future "AMshack enhanced" should be an integrated transport center connecting M1 rail, other commuter rail, transport to the airport, bus services, and rail passenger within convenient and safe walking distance of the CBD.

I don't think MCS fills the bill.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · August-07-10, 07:47 AM

It is a work of art though, I don't know how many Beaux Arts building's there are left in the city but the number has to be very small...beyond the amazing facade the Guastavino style vaults in the main waiting room are still very much intact and viable enough that you could drive a truck over them with confidence [[that according to an MIT Phd who visited recently) and Guastavino vaults are scarce beyond New York and New England area.

The Flemish bonded bricks that make up the concourse are perhaps the most intact part of the structure, some areas look no worse for wear than they did when the building closed, and could easily be powerwashed of the graffiti that stains them.

The marble flooring while dirty and chipped in some areas still retains the patterns laid into place almost one hundred years ago.

The Indian Mahogany in the reading room and woman's waiting room will obviously have to be replaced, but the panels that remain still retain their decorative details that once graced the top of the ceilings.

While the office building isn't nearly as graceful the Bedford limestone facade should be reason enough to want to save that, as well as the beautiful terrazzo flooring that has largely escaped harm over the last 20 years of abuse, a good sweep and polishing is all it should take to make them shine again

**mcsdetroitfriend** · August-07-10, 07:51 AM

btw, who says it has to be a train station, I mean it could be a good shuttle point to canada, skip taking your car over the bridge or through the tunnel....but look at the Cleveland station

Stosh · August-07-10, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Summit Place Mall?
As a person who would rather not shop anywhere, ever, I don't know if that place is still open, but if it is open, and anyone is employed there or spends money there, any comparison to the thoroughly deceased train station is silly.
Some of you make the station sound as though it is, or was, a work of art. It's a building. It was a terrific, stately, and aesthetically impressive building, but still a building, and further, I don't understand how anyone can talk about "saving" a building whose insides are quite destroyed.
Sometimes I think some of you are saying stuff that you don't even truly believe, just to be in-step with the crowd.
Actually, I am 100% convinced that my last statement is true.
I'm trying to be charitable, by engaging that hypothesis.

The reference to Summit was an analogy for SOME people [[Hi DD) to work through the comparisons. No insult was implied for the fine people at the much disparaged mall, if any.

**jcole** · August-07-10, 08:43 AM

I think Summit Place is closed and empty.

**marcwigle** · August-07-10, 09:16 AM

I'm not very familiar with the immediate area but has there be any thought into turning the tower into condos? Would that be viable or is the owner not interested in anything other than letting it rot? IIRC, Manny is the owner?

Stosh · August-07-10, 10:34 AM

And just one more thought on the MCS, and other buildings. I want all of you to take a look at the definition below, and think about it for a bit before you post again.

http://www.thetruthaboutrealty.com/f...-obsolescence/

**Hermod** · August-07-10, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

And just one more thought on the MCS, and other buildings. I want all of you to take a look at the definition below, and think about it for a bit before you post again.

http://www.thetruthaboutrealty.com/f...-obsolescence/

I have been using functional obsolescence to describe a building which was built for a specific purpose and that purpose has gone away or the way the purpose is accomplished has changed.

An example would be the many Detroit factory buildings which were designed for man-handling loads or for the use of overhead cranes. If the building is not readily adaptable to the use of forklifts and other materials handling equipment, it is "functionally obsolete" for the purpose it was built.

Another example would be a barn on a farm. The barn may be a very beautiful building with an excellent silo, but if there is no longer a working farm there, it is just a headache to be torn down.

**Magnatomicflux** · August-07-10, 11:04 AM

It does look pretty damn nice with those lights on however. Just giving a sense of its glory days.
I'm not sure if it's already been said, but is replacing all glass and fixing water leaks from the roof and anywhere else in the tower, then sealing it off from the main floor not do-able?
Only minimal maintenance to keep the buildings bones sound and to keep the facade in good shape. Isn't there more than enough room on the main floor for clerks and dispatchers and everything else you need? If not, open the first two floors of the tower.

no?

Stosh · August-07-10, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

I have been using functional obsolescence to describe a building which was built for a specific purpose and that purpose has gone away or the way the purpose is accomplished has changed.

An example would be the many Detroit factory buildings which were designed for man-handling loads or for the use of overhead cranes. If the building is not readily adaptable to the use of forklifts and other materials handling equipment, it is "functionally obsolete" for the purpose it was built.

Another example would be a barn on a farm. The barn may be a very beautiful building with an excellent silo, but if there is no longer a working farm there, it is just a headache to be torn down.

Exactly. The MCS was purpose built as an office tower.
Is more office space needed? NO. The glut of office space is appalling at best.

Is what is provided for office space up to current standards? NO. The building has radiators, hence no air conditioning. The cost to retrofit a tower of that magnitude with ductwork would be troublesome.

Could it be used as housing? NO. Air conditioning, heating and plumbing concerns would make it so cost prohibitive, barring a federal grant or something, that the rents or ownership would be sky high, which brings me to...

Location. On the outer edge of the "downtown" area, even possibly well beyond what is now considered CBD. Always has, and always will. You've heard the adage, and it applies here. Even when it was first built it had problems, or so I've read.

**jcole** · August-07-10, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

Exactly. The MCS was purpose built as an office tower.
Is more office space needed? NO. The glut of office space is appalling at best.

Is what is provided for office space up to current standards? NO. The building has radiators, hence no air conditioning. The cost to retrofit a tower of that magnitude with ductwork would be troublesome.

Could it be used as housing? NO. Air conditioning, heating and plumbing concerns would make it so cost prohibitive, barring a federal grant or something, that the rents or ownership would be sky high, which brings me to...

Location. On the outer edge of the "downtown" area, even possibly well beyond what is now considered CBD. Always has, and always will. You've heard the adage, and it applies here. Even when it was first built it had problems, or so I've read.

Not to mention bring it up to the 21st century with networking and electrical to handle today's technology.

Ravine · August-07-10, 11:42 AM

Forget it, gang. There is the side that says "It's over, so get rid of the corpse," and the side that throws reality & pragmatism to the curb and will continue to cling to it like Linus with his blanket. "Ne'er the twain shall meet."
All the more reason to do away with it, I think.
And, I'm not being cold-hearted about this matter; I understand how some folks feel about such a once-regal building being gone forever. What I'm saying is that it pretty much already is gone forever, and all of this foolishness is just delaying the inevitable.
I loved Tiger Stadium, and that day when I first saw the big-ass hole thumped into the freeway-side of it, it really, really hurt, but I drive by the site every night/day, and I sort of think I'm better off seeing the empty spot. Like all things of this sort, in life, it hurts a little bit less every time.

Big difference: almost none of the folks here, on DY, have any memories, whatsoever, of that station when it was up & running, and that is related to why I believe that some of you are bullshitting. How fuckin' sentimental can one be, about a place where one never really was?

LodgeDodger · August-07-10, 11:47 AM

I like the corpse. Can it be renovated? Probably not. Will it be? Heck no. But I DO love seeing it while I drive around town.

Ravine · August-07-10, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by LodgeDodger

I like the corpse. Can it be renovated? Probably not. Will it be? Heck no. But I DO love seeing it while I drive around town.

I cannot imagine why.

Stosh · August-07-10, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by LodgeDodger

I like the corpse. Can it be renovated? Probably not. Will it be? Heck no. But I DO love seeing it while I drive around town.

Really?

You may as well just stick a big sign on it that says "Detroit: Epic Fail"

Stosh · August-07-10, 02:00 PM

As mentioned above, the improvement. Kind of like lighting, only more informative.

Attachment 7110

Ravine · August-07-10, 02:11 PM

Good job, Stosh.

P.S.: Everybody except me hates you

LodgeDodger · August-07-10, 02:21 PM

Sometimes a person cannot explain why they like something.

[[That song from Man of LaMancha is now running through my head...)

**jcole** · August-07-10, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Good job, Stosh.

P.S.: Everybody except me hates you

And me. I don't hate him. Now there ARE lights where I thought there were before.

**Gistok** · August-07-10, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Summit Place Mall?
As a person who would rather not shop anywhere, ever, I don't know if that place is still open, but if it is open, and anyone is employed there or spends money there, any comparison to the thoroughly deceased train station is silly.
Some of you make the station sound as though it is, or was, a work of art. It's a building. It was a terrific, stately, and aesthetically impressive building, but still a building, and further, I don't understand how anyone can talk about "saving" a building whose insides are quite destroyed.
Sometimes I think some of you are saying stuff that you don't even truly believe, just to be in-step with the crowd.
Actually, I am 100% convinced that my last statement is true.
I'm trying to be charitable, by engaging that hypothesis.

Ravine, good post!

As someone who would love to see this as a "ruin"... I do have to be a realist... ruins just don't last long in the northern climates where the thaw/freeze cycle does great damage in a short period of time to even well built buildings. Even most 1900 year old Roman ruins are mainly found in the warmer climes of the Mediterranean area.

As a theatre buff, I know this from the fact that old closed/abandoned theatres in the sunbelt are today in much better condition than those in the northern states. Pipes don't burst from freezing, masonry doesn't come loose from water seeping in and loosening brickwork when frozen.

As sturdy and overbuilt as the MCS is, it won't last a hundred years unless it was secured from the elements and roofed over.

Preserved as a ruin, the MCS would definintely need some costly work, which any realist knows Matty won't provide. The roof would have to be fixed and the shattered window remains removed and replaced with a suitable substitute that can prevent further deterioration [[such as plywood with perhaps a HVAC film... maybe with a mirror like finish to give it a Tromphe L'Oeil sky effect). And even the tacky plexiglass idea [[already bandied about) to replace the huge windows of the grand hall.

Is such a scenario possible... well possible yes... but highly unlikely [[I would bet against it).

But when it comes to train stations... the MSC is almost like the "Cologne Cathedral of train stations"... a gigantic, almost terrifying work that completely overshadows and makes miniscule all that is around it as a brooding dark hulk of massive proportions. Therein lies why people from all over the world come to see it.

But with all those shattered windows and graffiti... I can understand why many want to see it gone...