If you're awake, get to MCS!!!

[marcwigle]

Holy crap... what a negative bunch. When most people look at Detroit, they see slums and crime. What they don't see are all the great neighbourhoods and parts of the city that are great to be in. The news always reports that a certain crime occurred in Detroit when, in fact, it happened somewhere else. A prime case is when the Muslims were detained in Dearborn [[I think)... on the news, in my town, it didn't mention Dearborn but a suburb of Detroit. When I looked at Detroit from Windsor a couple of years ago I would have never thought that the downtown contained a bunch of empty buildings. It looked, to me, like any other normal big city. Sometimes the "look" is what people need to think that things aren't all that bad. I stayed downtown last summer at the Milner and felt as safe as I do in Ottawa, Canada near where I live. If I believed everything I was told about Detroit I would have never stopped after getting off the Ambassador. The little things will grow into bigger things... if lighting up the MCS makes people believe that Detroit isn't such a bad place then, why not light it up? Anything is better than what it looks like now. I think it's a positive thing and I'm sure that others probably agree.

[Mikeg]

America seems to be rather short on 1900 year old buildings.

No shit, Sherlock!

And except maybe for the Alamo... Americans are rather non-tolerant towards ruins, while Europeans seem to be more sophisticated in that regard...

I think you forgot to include the word "we" in that generalization, as in "while we Europeans seem....".

[Gistok]

I'm sorry if I missed some sarcasm here, but are you seriously likening an abandoned train station to the Colosseum?
oops.. clearly you are. wow.

Well not an actual comparison... it's hard to compare American buildings to European buildings, when European ones have been around for MANY centuries longer than American ones.

But of the Roman monuments... Rome has only salvaged 1 3/4 of the old Roman era buildings... the extant Pantheon, and the 3/4 extant Flavian Amphitheatre [[Colosseum).... although there are a lot of remnants besides these [[baths, aqueducts, etc).

If the MCS wasn't a greatly impressive ruin [[as is the Colosseum), then Hollywood and outside visitors wouldn't keep coming here. Ditto for the remains of the former Michigan Theatre.... 2 more movies are going to have scenes made there.

It's hard to measure the number visitors from out of town that come to view the MCS... but the former Michigan Theatre has gotten folks from all around the world [[dozens of countries)... including architects, architectural students... even entire architecture classes have come to the Michigan. So if that's the case with the former theatre, then it is likely also true for the MCS, but much harder to quantify.

Personally, I would love to see the entire MCS lit up at night similar to how the Penobscot Building is lit up at night. However, it will still be viewed as an eyesore in the daytime.

But like I said... Americans have an aversion to ruins in this country... while Europeans treasure them... such as Heidelberg Castle, the Kaiser Wilhelm Church in the middle of Berlin, old Coventry Cathedral, and the thousands of ruins that dot the countryside throughout Europe.

Maybe that's why so many Europeans are fascinated by Detroit.

[bailey]

Well not an actual comparison... it's hard to compare American buildings to European buildings, when European ones have been around for MANY centuries longer than American ones.

But of the Roman monuments... Rome has only salvaged 1 3/4 of the old Roman era buildings... the extant Pantheon, and the 3/4 extant Flavian Amphitheatre [[Colosseum).

If the MCS wasn't a greatly impressive ruin [[as is the Colosseum), then Hollywood and outside visitors wouldn't keep coming here. Ditto for the remains of the former Michigan Theatre.... 2 more movies are going to have scenes made there.

It's hard to measure the number visitors from out of town that come to view the MCS... but the former Michigan Theatre has gotten folks from all around the world [[dozens of countries)... including architects, architectural students... even entire architecture classes have come to the Michigan. So if that's the case with the former theatre, then it is likely also true for the MCS, but much harder to quantify.

Personally, I would love to see the entire MCS lit up at night similar to how the Penobscot Building is lit up at night. However, it will still be viewed as an eyesore in the daytime.

But like I said... Americans have an aversion to ruins in this country... while Europeans treasure them... such as Heidelberg Castle, the Kaiser Wilhelm Church in the middle of Berlin, old Coventry Cathedral, and the thousands of ruins that dot the countryside throughout Europe.

Maybe that's why so many Europeans are fascinated by Detroit.

Well, I would think that had Coventy or Kaiser Wilelm cathedrals not been bombed in WWII, they wouldn't be ruins and preserved as such. I don't know if that is beside the point or not, but I would say that the typical "ruin" in Europe tends to be standing and protected because of some historical significance of the building itself or the former inhabitants. Cathedrals, fortresses, colluseums and castles are one thing. You don't see a lot of old abandon train stations on a list of things to see and do while in Lower Saxony.

[Whitehouse]

OMGWTFBBQ111!!!11!!111

I JUST SAW DOWNTOWN DETROIT IN FLAMES!1!!!1!!111










[[in tonight's episode of flashforward....)

[Dabirch]

Do you actually think that anybody treasured the empty and derelict Coliseum 26 years after the last gladiator battle or chariott race? Or do you think that it was slowly stripped, looted, and vandalized and seen as an eyesore for nearly a millennium before the Pope declared it a Holy site sometime in the 18th century?

Give the MCS another 600-700 years of neglect and looting - and if it is still standing, than it can be compared to other historical ruins. Otherwise it is at, best, a temporary hollywood prop that is a constant reminder of how quickly - and to the depths of which --a once might city has fallen.

[Detroitnerd]

Perhaps one of the reasons Detroit has been laid so low is that it has zero appreciation of its history, and is secretly embarrassed by its history. It looks at buildings, once they're vacant, as eyesores, ready for a date with the wrecking ball, instead of thinking of how they could be used, or, if not used right away, preserved for the time being. [[A) That building is so seriously overengineered that knocking it down would be an expensive proposition. [[B) Knocking it down with no plan would leave a massive, empty, weed-choked lot. [[C) None of this acknowledges that it is a major tourist attraction, regularly drawing people to it with cameras and posing. And [[D) it could be a great, usable building again, if we were to successfully petition for high-speed rail redevelopment funds, like Minneapolis/St. Paul did.

[English]

Holy crap... what a negative bunch.

Welcome to Detroit. And thanks for your post.

[English]

Perhaps one of the reasons Detroit has been laid so low is that it has zero appreciation of its history, and is secretly embarrassed by its history. It looks at buildings, once they're vacant, as eyesores, ready for a date with the wrecking ball, instead of thinking of how they could be used, or, if not used right away, preserved for the time being.

It's the American way. Use it up, toss it out, bigger, brighter, faster, newer, younger, more efficient, cheaper... now, now, now.

[EastSider]

OMGWTFBBQ111!!!11!!111

I JUST SAW DOWNTOWN DETROIT IN FLAMES!1!!!1!!111

[[in tonight's episode of flashforward....)

First, calm down. It's a TV show.

Second, that was no TV show, it was just the Detroit Fire Watch. It updates almost daily.

[Stosh]

Well not an actual comparison... it's hard to compare American buildings to European buildings, when European ones have been around for MANY centuries longer than American ones.

But of the Roman monuments... Rome has only salvaged 1 3/4 of the old Roman era buildings... the extant Pantheon, and the 3/4 extant Flavian Amphitheatre [[Colosseum).... although there are a lot of remnants besides these [[baths, aqueducts, etc).

If the MCS wasn't a greatly impressive ruin [[as is the Colosseum), then Hollywood and outside visitors wouldn't keep coming here. Ditto for the remains of the former Michigan Theatre.... 2 more movies are going to have scenes made there.

It's hard to measure the number visitors from out of town that come to view the MCS... but the former Michigan Theatre has gotten folks from all around the world [[dozens of countries)... including architects, architectural students... even entire architecture classes have come to the Michigan. So if that's the case with the former theatre, then it is likely also true for the MCS, but much harder to quantify.

Personally, I would love to see the entire MCS lit up at night similar to how the Penobscot Building is lit up at night. However, it will still be viewed as an eyesore in the daytime.

But like I said... Americans have an aversion to ruins in this country... while Europeans treasure them... such as Heidelberg Castle, the Kaiser Wilhelm Church in the middle of Berlin, old Coventry Cathedral, and the thousands of ruins that dot the countryside throughout Europe.

Maybe that's why so many Europeans are fascinated by Detroit.

Are you sure that you aren't from Miami?

Seems to me that this was discussed to death before, and now the idiocy is back for round 2.The MCS has more in common with the Summit place mall than the ruins of Rome. Overbuilt and underutilized, and in the wrong spot for true integration with downtown Detroit.

[Zacha341]

Electric bill too high!

Whatever became of that plan to light up Detroit's abandoned buildings at night to make the city look more vibrant?

[Zacha341]

That's a vision... I must be in a kooky mood. Usually I'm with the conservation point of view re. the MCS... then sometime I am just want to see it gone.

^ Agreed. Maybe some Hollywood types will sink enough money into the detonation of the building once and for all. That is a movie I would pay to see.

[Gistok]

Well, I would think that had Coventy or Kaiser Wilelm cathedrals not been bombed in WWII, they wouldn't be ruins and preserved as such. I don't know if that is beside the point or not, but I would say that the typical "ruin" in Europe tends to be standing and protected because of some historical significance of the building itself or the former inhabitants. Cathedrals, fortresses, colluseums and castles are one thing. You don't see a lot of old abandon train stations on a list of things to see and do while in Lower Saxony.

.... you won't see ANY abandoned train stations in Europe... remember they're still using them for TRAINS!!!!!!

Except for Paris's Gare D'Orsay train station [[one of a half dozen huge train stations in Paris) which was adaptive reused as a magnificent museum, the Musee D'Orsay, to house the citys vast collection of French Impressionist paintings....

[Gistok]

Are you sure that you aren't from Miami?

Seems to me that this was discussed to death before, and now the idiocy is back for round 2.The MCS has more in common with the Summit place mall than the ruins of Rome. Overbuilt and underutilized, and in the wrong spot for true integration with downtown Detroit.

Miami? Are you talking about the late Barbara Ann Capitman's 1980s uphill battle to save the Art Deco South Beach district from all the clueless bureaucrats and businessmen who wanted to bulldoze the place for condos?

Integration with downtown.... who brought that up in this discussion??

The "idiocy" of which you speak is "adaptive reuse of old Train Station"... since when is that discussion a closed topic??

.... and comparing the MCS [[one of America's 3 largest surviving historic train stations) with Summit Place Mall... [[a middling non-descript suburban cookie-cutter style mall). That says it all....

[Pushtina]

[bailey]

Miami? Are you talking about the late Barbara Ann Capitman's 1980s uphill battle to save the Art Deco South Beach district from all the clueless bureaucrats and businessmen who wanted to bulldoze the place for condos?

Integration with downtown.... who brought that up in this discussion??

The "idiocy" of which you speak is "adaptive reuse of old Train Station"... since when is that discussion a closed topic??

.... and comparing the MCS [[one of America's 3 largest surviving historic train stations) with Summit Place Mall... [[a middling non-descript suburban cookie-cutter style mall). That says it all....

Is a train station really "surviving" when it hasn't been open or used by the public in decades and has simply been left to rot?

And ...yes, the issue of adaptive re-use of the train station is closed. The topic is closed because its owner closed it.

[Jimaz]

Miami? Are you talking about the late Barbara Ann Capitman's 1980s uphill battle to save the Art Deco South Beach district from all the clueless bureaucrats and businessmen who wanted to bulldoze the place for condos?

Last Fall a former mayor of Ocean Beach gave us a tour of that area. The whole area was packed with nightlife spilling onto the street. Apparently it's become a roaring success.

[Detroitnerd]

Last Fall a former mayor of Ocean Beach gave us a tour of that area. The whole area was packed with nightlife spilling onto the street. Apparently it's become a roaring success.

Meanwhile, in the Florida condo market ...

[mcsdetroitfriend]

.... you won't see ANY abandoned train stations in Europe... remember they're still using them for TRAINS!!!!!!

Except for Paris's Gare D'Orsay train station [[one of a half dozen huge train stations in Paris) which was adaptive reused as a magnificent museum, the Musee D'Orsay, to house the citys vast collection of French Impressionist paintings....

I'll agree, every city I've been in on this cruise ship [[i'm working on one in the Mediterranean as a sound engineer) has had a working train station, some nearly as old as MCS, and thank god they did! Very reliable, very easy to get to one place to another -save for Naples, I wound up on a train heading to Rome in stead of Salerno, whoops!-

[Stosh]

Miami? Are you talking about the late Barbara Ann Capitman's 1980s uphill battle to save the Art Deco South Beach district from all the clueless bureaucrats and businessmen who wanted to bulldoze the place for condos?

No, the Miami resident that used to post the same "lighting of ruins" claptrap.
You should be more original.

Integration with downtown.... who brought that up in this discussion??

I did. It's entirely relevant to the discussion. If the MCS were at the riverfront where the tracks WERE once, we would not be having this conversation.

The "idiocy" of which you speak is "adaptive reuse of old Train Station"... since when is that discussion a closed topic??

I'm talking about the lighting of the ruins. Not any pie in the sky adaptive reuse. If you can come up with tenants or cash, fine. Waiting another 20 or 30 years is out of the question.

.... and comparing the MCS [[one of America's 3 largest surviving historic train stations) with Summit Place Mall... [[a middling non-descript suburban cookie-cutter style mall). That says it all....

It sure does say it all. Both are misplaced in the communities that they were built to serve, both are functionally obsolete, and both are huge money pits. A middling nondescript office tower IMHO. Only saving grace is the lower floor. Period. Cut the energy sucking tower off of that, and maybe you will have something worth restoring.

[1KielsonDrive]

Whatever became of that plan to light up Detroit's abandoned buildings at night to make the city look more vibrant?

Kind of like Coleman Young's plan to place awnings and paintings on vacant buildings along the Pipple Mover route for the Republican National Convention to make downtown look more vibrant. Bob McKeown put the lie to that one with his 'Demolition by Neglect' spray painted stencils and photo documentation project.

[jcole]

I think it's fairly telling that when the lowest floor is lit, you can see the lights through the highest story windows. That place must be like swiss cheese inside.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Am I just not getting your sarcasm or are you crazy? There are no lights coming through the top floor or any other floor above the main floor. In fact all that light from the photos I've seen, stays within the main waiting room and doesn't seep in to any of the adjacent rooms on the same floor

[MysticalHalf]

What hes seeing is the graffiti that is on the front of the building at the top, and its paint is just reflective to the camera

Matter of fact I think it says Save the Depot.