The Canals-what happened?

**Gistok** · August-03-10, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbred

OMG, children, Grow Up!!! Did someone piss in your ceral this morning?

During this informative and civil discussion... one wonders what this posters tantrum was all about?? Off the meds??

**One Shot** · August-03-10, 01:40 PM

Those pictures are awesome! Like Eastside said the open land! Amazing how different that whole area once looked! When are they gonna invent time travel???

**Packman41** · August-03-10, 01:42 PM

@Jimaz: Thanks for printing out the photos to the links I supplied.

Yes, the amount of vacant land is amazing. As to the timeline, I think it is in the middle teens. Packard Motor Car Company used Klenk's Inn as a background for several PR photos in that time period.

When I first saw this set of photos on the WSU website there was a series of earlier photos in the sequence just downriver from Klenk's Inn. In one of those photos there was an image of early airline service between Detroit and Cleveland. but I could not find that image on their website today.

**redfordman** · August-03-10, 01:42 PM

We used to live on Ashland in the early 50's. In the backyard we had a dock which was shared by our neighbor. One day our neighbor was drilling some holes in his boat and there was a huge explosion. I guess a spark set of gas fumes and both of our boats were blown into the next century. The neighbor was laying in our backyard naked and burnt to a crisp.

We moved to Redford a month later. Mom was always afraid I would fall in Fox Creek and drown, but the explosion was too much for her.

**kryptonite** · August-03-10, 01:50 PM

A woman I know that lived there until her 80's told me that a Canadian Airforce plane crashed in the Fox Creek area and destroyed three or four houses, maybe killed some people. She said the Canadian government paid the residents a sum of money for their losses. I'm guessing it must have been in the 40's or 50's.

**DanFromDetroit** · August-03-10, 02:01 PM

Some friends of my parents lost their son in Fox Creek when his car crashed into the canal trying to flee from the police. I'm guessing it was in the 70's or so.

Also I wonder on that date that shows the Windmill Pointe Park pre-everthing! I had always thought those houses were built down there on Barrington/Pemberton/Lakepointe mainly in the 20's & 30's but this pic seems [[no real clue) to be a bit after that. Anyways - great find!

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · August-03-10, 02:09 PM

It was mentioned in detail in the "Paradise Lost" thread, it happened at the foot of Ashland canal side facing Harbor Island below scripps, if you can find the thread there are some great shots of the aftermath.

**EASTSIDE CAT 67-83** · August-03-10, 02:13 PM

That car crash happened at the foot of Lakewood as you enter the park about 78 or 79, there is quite the hard right turn as you enter the park and at the speed of the chase they went into the canal, shortly after that a fence was erected there.

**kryptonite** · August-03-10, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by DanFromDetroit

Also I wonder on that date that shows the Windmill Pointe Park pre-everthing! I had always thought those houses were built down there on Barrington/Pemberton/Lakepointe mainly in the 20's & 30's but this pic seems [[no real clue) to be a bit after that. Anyways - great find!

If you look at the photo with the beach, there is a bridge over the canal. The cars on the bridge are the most legible vehicles in the photo, and appear to be 1910-1920-ish vintage. But it's confusing, the photos with the Inn where the beach was, don't show a bridge over the canal, so it's hard to say which photo is oldest.

**Packman41** · August-03-10, 02:33 PM

My opinion is that photos #1 and #2 were taken on the same day. Photo #3 would have been taken a year to a few years later as there is: [[1) the addition of two antennas near the lighthouse and rear range light [[2) the GPP Park seems more developed with a beach.

**illwill** · August-03-10, 02:44 PM

This has always been and still is one of my favorite neighborhoods in the city. The reason I think the canal areas haven't rebounded is due to over-priced real estate. I looked to buy for years in that neighborhood but prices are and have always been way too high there. At least over the past 15 years or so. I understand that it's unique waterfront property but real estate is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And it is run down. Unfortunately, I also think much of Detroit suffers from the same problem.

And on another note, to say people don't live in Detroit because of bad schools, crime, taxes, corruption etc... is moot. Again, we can always look at other cities like Chicago, New York and Baltimore/D.C. Terrible cities but very desireable places to live. Detroit unfortunately slipped farther into a place that is almost impossible to return to what it once was. This in turn, makes it much harder for the city to pull out of the rut compared to most others. Detroit still is a great and unique city and always will be.

**Packman41** · August-03-10, 03:18 PM

Here is the photo in the sequence I mentioned in an earlier post today. Descripton of the photo reads, "Michigan; Windmill Pointe; Aerial View Old Detroit Motorboat Club." Well, neither the DMBC nor is Windmill Point in view, but it is part of a sequence of photos that preceded the three shown above.

I have to assume it is along the shoreline either just down river from Windmill Point.

Anybody know about the aircraft? Been wondering about it since I first saw this photo in 2005.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ND-3%5D43731_3

**MikeM** · August-03-10, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

But it's confusing, the photos with the Inn where the beach was, don't show a bridge over the canal, so it's hard to say which photo is oldest.

All three photos show a bridge over the Fox Creek canal. You're confusing the canal to the west with the Fox Creek canal.

**Packman41** · August-03-10, 03:39 PM

@MikeM:

True, a bridge over the canal is shown in all 3 photos. But, I believe the first 2 photos were taken at one time and the third photo was taken a few years later. Again, notice the addition of the antennas, the built up GPP park and the addition of the out buildings at the base of the rear range light in photo #3.

What do you make of the airplane in photo #4?

**MikeM** · August-03-10, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Packman41

Here is the photo in the sequence I mentioned in an earlier post today. Descripton of the photo reads, "Michigan; Windmill Pointe; Aerial View Old Detroit Motorboat Club." Well, neither the DMBC nor is Windmill Point in view, but it is part of a sequence of photos that preceded the three shown above.

I have to assume it is along the shoreline either just down river from Windmill Point.

Anybody know about the aircraft? Been wondering about it since I first saw this photo in 2005.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ND-3%5D43731_3

The picture is of Windmill Point in Grosse Pointe Park, upriver from Fox Creek.

The boat is a Curtiss flying boat, aqcuired from the navy and put into service between Detroit and Cleveland.

The Motorboat Club stood on the land where the inn was built.

**MikeM** · August-03-10, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

The picture is of Windmill Point in Grosse Pointe Park, upriver from Fox Creek.

On second thought, I think the photo is mislabeled, and that it's a view of the shoreline downriver somewhere. I've found several of photos in the WSU archives misidentified or reversed. [[They have a link to submit comments on each photo, but the archivist never responds.)

The flying boat is the Santa Maria, which was used in service between Florida and Cuba before being brought north to the Great Lakes. Other photos of it in the archives are dated July 1, 1922 - probably the inaugural date of service to Cleveland, hence the Detroit News taking photos of it. I would assume the photo you posted was taken the same day, downriver or along the Erie coastline.

**Packman41** · August-03-10, 04:06 PM

@Mike M:

So up river would mean actually the shoreline of Lake St. Clair?

What would you guess is the name of the street [[today) that is shown in photo #4 that is immediately in front of the airliner and deadends at the water?

Yes, the The Motor Boat Club was on Klenk's Island, but existed at the same time along with Klenk's Inn adjacent down river and to the Windmill Light adjacent up river - see photo #2.

And what is the vintage [[year) of the surplus Curtiss flying boat?

**ndavies** · August-04-10, 09:57 AM

Definitely not Downriver. Most of the shore Downriver, from Trenton to Delray was already heavily industrialized or urbanized by the time that picture was taken. The rest was/is swamp. There also isn't a road that intersects the lower river or the western edge Lake Erie at that angle.

If you look at the long tree shadows, This shoreline runs due East-West. [[not knowing what time the pircure was taken it, you can't tell of the picture is facing north or south.) It would either need to be the north or south shores of Lake Erie or Lake St. Claire.

**Kirby** · August-04-10, 10:24 AM

I wonder how many people outside of Detroit even know there are canals? Not many I'm sure. Also who owns all the vacant property? Why doesn't the city have these properties for sale or do something to lure an investor? Is there too much red tape and politics to navigate to make the area attractive to investors? Revitalization has been successfully done in other cities across American so why not Detroit? When I get a group together from the suburbs downtown for what ever reason I like to take them on tour of the city. Most are usually shocked and had no idea what the city had and has to offer.

**kryptonite** · August-04-10, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Kirby

I wonder how many people outside of Detroit even know there are canals? Not many I'm sure. Also who owns all the vacant property? Why doesn't the city have these properties for sale or do something to lure an investor? Is there too much red tape and politics to navigate to make the area attractive to investors? Revitalization has been successfully done in other cities across American so why not Detroit? When I get a group together from the suburbs downtown for what ever reason I like to take them on tour of the city. Most are usually shocked and had no idea what the city had and has to offer.

Do you think the city of Detroit government has ever been on the ball enough to sell vacant properties? Please, not for 30+ years.

A friend of mine around 1981 actually bought a vacant lot next to his home in the Fox Creek neighborhood. It was not an easy process. The price was fair but the whole purchase process was grueling. At least that was his version of events 30 years ago.

Part of the reason the city has difficulty dealing with vacant property sales is that to build a new home in Detroit, the minimum lot size is now geared toward suburban-size lots. So, to build a home a potential developer has to assemble a minimum of almost three city lots. The city has been cooperative/uncooperative about selling vacant lots to adjacent home owners over the years. I don't know what the current situation is.

Possibly there are some exceptions to zoning codes nowadays, possibly the situation regarding purchase of city-owned lots has been streamlined? I don't know how well it works in 2010, but it the past it was a headache, hence the city sat on a growing inventory of vacant parcels that it could not/would not sell for whatever reasons. Things may be easier these days, does anyone know?

**Kirby** · August-04-10, 10:54 AM

[quote=kryptonite;169881]Do you think the city of Detroit government has ever been on the ball enough to sell vacant properties? Please, not for 30+ years.

My point exactly.

**kryptonite** · August-04-10, 11:09 AM

But to be fair to the city, what often happens is that homes are abandoned and left for the city/county to foreclose due to non-payment of taxes. That particular process takes years, by the time the property has been deeded to the city/county for sale due to non-payment of taxes, the property has almost always deteriorated so badly that a sale is not an option.

I heard a story about a man that tried to give a house on the west side of Detroit back to the city because he had purchased a house in the suburbs and could not sell his house in Detroit at the time. The process took years, the house fell apart, same old story.

Much of this problem is state law, to be fair to Detroit and the counties, the state makes tax seizures a glacial process which means more abandoned/deteriorated housing for the city to deal with.

Mortgage foreclosures happen much faster. Many of those homes can be resold.

**RickBeall** · August-04-10, 07:15 PM

I love this thread. You guys just gave me a whole new area to explore.

**Gistok** · August-04-10, 08:33 PM

I remember as a little kid in the 60s my father would take us down to "Tommy's", the convenience/bait store that lies along a canal near the park entrance. Back then the Naval Hospital and trailer park nearby were still standing. I drove by this past winter, and noticed the building that housed "Tommy's" was still standing.

**JTistle1** · August-04-10, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

Given my druthers, I guess I prefer to read a post with a misspelling or grammatical error than one posted with a barrage of vulgarities. At least a misspelling can still convey a message.

So, are there still nice areas around the canals or not?

' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
Just throwing in several apostrophes to use wherever needed. There's plenty to go around. Now can we leave the grammatical issues alone?