Why Is Coleman Young so hated???

[BrushStart]

Wow, quite a diatribe there BrushStart. What generation are you talking about here? Who is the "us" against "them" in this? I do agree that those who hold grudges and feed on hate need to go away; but this is a double edge sword as you know.
Is it blacks don't need whites or whites don't need blacks? I need you to make that clearer. "You folks"? Who are "you folks"? I sense some racial connotations here.

Actually, no racial connotations. I've met both blacks and whites who hold these opinions, and although it is not universally true, most of them are older. Perhaps it's more than one generation that has adopted these beliefs. I think it started as distrust more than a half-centruy ago, but as it has been passed down to younger or even middle-aged people, they have no first-hand basis for spreading such hate. They are ignorantly repeating the rantings of somebody else as if it were the gospel of our community. This has done a lot of damage. I will say that for a time, I almost became one of those people based on the rantings of my friends and family, even though I never had any such personal experiences. Fortunately, I didn't buy into such garbage and came out the other side more enlightened and much happier that my eyes are opened.

Bad stuff happened in the past in our region. That is not to be denied. But what is happening now is a new generation is being indoctrinated with the same hate and distrust that led to the first sequence of tragedies. I am not tolerant of that. So, I say to people who hold those beliefs and opinions, move along.

[iheartthed]

Sorry iheartthed but they were introduced during Young's administration. I don't know the exact year, but I left Detroit in 1993, Young was still Mayor and we had the rolling trash cans for many years before that.

Are you talking about the black trash cans that the city issued? The ones that could be loaded by the truck without someone walking along side to empty them manually?

[Buy American]

Are you talking about the black trash cans that the city issued? The ones that could be loaded by the truck without someone walking along side to empty them manually?

Yes, those are the ones I'm talking about.

[5thSFGP]

What a guy, a real prince! Some of Young's notable quotes:
I'm smiling all the time. That doesn't mean a goddamned thing except I think people who go around solemn-faced and quoting the Bible are full of shit."
"Swearing is an art form. You can express yourself much more exactly, much more succinctly, with properly used curse words." Coleman Young to Detroit journalists via closed-circuit television from Hawaii: "Aloha, Motherfuckers!" "Racism is like high blood pressure—the person who has it doesn’t know he has it until he drops over with a goddamned stroke. There are no symptoms of racism. The victim of racism is in a much better position to tell you whether or not you’re a racist than you are." "I issue a warning to all those pushers, to all rip-off artists, to all muggers: It’s time to leave Detroit; hit Eight Mile Road! And I don’t give a damn if they are black or white, or if they wear Superfly suits or blue uniforms with silver badges. Hit the road." "You can't look forward and backward at the same time." "We need to dream big dreams, propose grandiose means if we are to recapture the excitement, the vibrancy, and pride we once had." "We don't need no Goddamn Greenpeace!" [[In response to activists suspended from the smoke stacks of a new incinerator that was about to be put into operation.) "There is no brilliant single stroke that is going to transform the water into wine or straw into gold." "I've learned over a period of years there are setbacks when you come up against the immovable object; sometimes the object doesn't move." "Boogien Mansion" [[Repeated reference to city of Detroit's official mayoral residence the Manoogian Mansion) "I don't know nothing about no God Damned Krugerrands."

[jtf1972]

Mayor Young was/is one of those figures that people love pointing fingers at. In some instances he deserved those fingers [[and others too!) But too often, rather than looking at the entirety that was Coleman A. Young he is simply looked to as either an icon or a pariah.

You can tell a lot about a person by their reaction to even the mention of his name. Some love him & he could do no wrong in their eyes. Others feel he was the source of all that is/was and will ever be wrong with Detroit. He was neither perfect, nor evil personified. He was simply the mayor at a time when success would have been nearly impossible. I believe that he cared deeply for this city and did everything he could to keep it afloat, given the circumstances.


Could he have done better? Goddamn right he could have. His ego did get in the way of much that he could have accomplished, but so did many other forces. However to believe that had Nichols, or anybody else have been elected in ’73 would have resulted in a Detroit that was better off in the mid-80’s is at best foolish. [[I do feel that he should have retired in ’86, but who would have replaced the H.M.F.I.C.? Barrow? Hindsight shows that may not have been any more effective than Young’s last two terms.)


The massive "White Flight" began well before and only continued to accelerate during his tenure. He was not the catalyst, but a result of it. When you factor in the color of his skin with the attitudes of the people who voluntarily left the city, it should not be difficult to see why so many people view him as the problem. It's a lot easier than looking at those who abandoned Detroit in the first place: those sweet & wonderful people called “parents,” or even the one staring back in the mirror [[who can clearly not even share the blame.)


When you hear someone talk about Young, consider that their comments may say more about themselves than it does about him.

[Detroit Stylin]

When you hear someone talk about Young, consider that their comments may say more about themselves than it does about him.

And that right there says so much with so little....

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Let's see:

1. Canfield Avenue was ripped up for years. The urban pioneers who purchased houses there were not his
people.

2. A Rembrandt was stolen from the DIA. I read a couple of yeas ago about a person from Detroit [[living else
where) owned a Rembrandt. ? Why didn't the FBI investigate the theft?

3. There were some mansions [[maybe old slumpies neighborhood) that were to be rehabbed but $3M of grant
money went missing and there was no investigation.

4. An art center my friends and I showed in became headed up by a Coleman Young relative and her people. My
friend had a drawing stolen and another defaced. Another friend had his work stolen but he said it
was valued at $50K, so it mysteriously reappeared.

5. I and my friend, Johanna had our photo taken with him [[we were always crashing parties back then). He had
on a bullet proof vest. Probably before kevlar.

He was a character. Called Reagon Ole" Pruneface. His name was on everything. He was so corrupt it just
magnified the decline. He didn't do anything for Detroit except wreck it further. And he was a racist role model for the citizens who have come up since.

If he was a racist, it probably stems from his upbringing in Jim Crow America. All the injustices that he, and his generation of black people fought. So to chastize him for "flipping the script" so to speak is wrong. Whites to this day, never go thru what it's like being black. Never. Some attitudes have changed, but not many.

[Ravine]

Young was a fuckin' handful, that's for sure. I didn't love him or hate him.
Certain characters are, sort of, fitted to a certain time & place. Coleman Young, as Mayor of Detroit during the years when he served, was like that. You cannot evaluate him without simultaneously taking into account the back-drop of time & place.
In any case, even when I was irritated by him, I never lost sight of the fact that he was the man who stood up to the McCarthy thugs and pretty much told them that they could kiss his black ass, fuck off, and die.
I just don't see how anyone could entirely hate a guy like that.

[Alex Martin]

Coleman Young. Well, he was the guy who was quoted in the newspaper saying "m***** f***** on more than one occasion. Every year, more and more businesses closed their doors in the 1970s. I cannot believe no one in City Hall noticed the drop in tax revenue. Mr. Young was responsible for the People Freaker [[Mover). Somehow, he got pipe stamped South Africa in a year when no other city could get transportation funding for a project like this.

Then there was a story about Police Chief Hart. During an investigation, the police found 10 grand in a drop ceiling. When asked what it was for, he replied, "Oh that's just gambling money."

I never hated Coleman Young but he presided over the big decline of Detroit.

[Kirby]

My name tells you were I'm from. My family had to leave the city in 1978. Our quiet neighborhood became a war zone. First the arson fires started over in the Piquette/Chene area. Eldery Polish people were being burned out of their homes. The fires started to move over to our side of the freeway but were not as frequent. Cars were being stolen. My car was stolen 3 times and each time I got it back which was amazing in itself. Drug dens were popping up everywhere and we could no longer sit safely on our porches at night. Once gun fire became a nightly event it was time to move. Did we flee? Yes... by choice? No. Did we feel targeted by the Young Administration??? Yes what other reason could there have been other than we were no longer welcome in our city?? The sad thing is not only did the neighborhood die for us but for EVERYONE living in the area which was stable, had stores, bakeries, banks, dry cleaners, hardware stores, churches and bars all within walking distance. Our neighbor hood was a mix of middle class white and black people all living and working together and we all got along and learned things from each others culture. So what the hell happened? Why did it get so bad and so fast??? Maybe it was the GM Poletown fiasco even if we were on the other side of 94. The only logical explaination we had was to blame Coleman. Too this day I still miss the neighborhood and no matter where I live it will never be replaced in my memories or heart.

[Danny]

In 1980, Mayor Young gave the keys to the City of Detroit to Iraqi Presdent [[ dictator) Saddam Hussein for contributing $200,000 to the Chaldean community in Detroit's North Side W.7 Mile Rd. businesses corridor. Pastor from Sacred Heart Catholic Church went to Iraq to present the keys to the City Detroit to Saddam. Some of money was used to build a Chaldean Center which is still standing today. The letters 'S and H' does not stand for Saddam Hussein.

THE RESULT

In 1988 Saddam Hussein was chemical weapons to poison most of the Chaldeans. In 1990 Saddam Invaded Kuwait. That will get the U.S. involved in Operation Desert Storm [[Gulf War). Later in 2006 poor British intelligence claimed that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. President George W. Bush Jr. see this as a threat to worldwide national security. Rather than wait for the UN to propose a diplomatic resolution, Congress declare war against Iraq and President Bush leads Team America to kill the Iraqis. We won by 'shock and awe-'ing them out of hiding places. Our troops found Saddam hiding in a small bunker, killed him and restore Iraq into a so-called 'free country' that assimilates the United States to this day.

IN THE MEANTIME

Coleman Young was trying his best to fix Detroit. However white folks are still leaving. More Detroit neighborhoods are in transition to become hard core black. Street crime, flow of street drugs and crooked cops were rampant. Downtown Detroit had become a instant ghostown after Hudson's Flagship store left. in 1993 Coleman Young left as Mayor of Detroit and Dennis Archer took over. By the late 1990s He died.

[kathy2trips]

The difference between Kwame & Coleman, is that Kwame got caught. Coleman had 20 years to ruin Detroit. Imagine 20 years of Kwame.

[mjs]

Coleman Young was feared; fear breeds hatred! From reading his bios he certainly has an impressive history of social activism, serving his fellows, standing up to injustice, fighting for the underdog etc.... He used to cuss out/at reporters who asked questions that he found disagreeable...

The words you selected remind me of the quote from Whitney v California where Justice Brandeis was arguing that we shouldn't shutdown and jail Americans speaking in support of Communism:

fear breeds repression; that repression breeds hate; that hate menaces stable government; that the path of safety lies in the opportunity to discuss freely supposed grievances and proposed remedies; and that the fitting remedy for evil counsels is good ones.

As one Law School Dean has summarized a major idea in that line of cases:

If a society as wide-open and pluralistic as America is not to explode from festering tensions and conflicts, there must be valves through which citizens with discontent may blow off steam. In America we have come to accept the wisdom that openness fosters resiliency, that peaceful protest displaces more violence than it triggers, and that free debate dissipates more hate than it stirs.

White Detroiter fears ultimately lead to that explosion of festering fears and frustrations known as the '67 Riots and Coleman's fears from his past ultimately lead to that menacing of stable government known as white flight.

[detroitdoc]

racist and crooked

[Swimmaven]

If he was a racist, it probably stems from his upbringing in Jim Crow America. All the injustices that he, and his generation of black people fought. So to chastize him for "flipping the script" so to speak is wrong. Whites to this day, never go thru what it's like being black. Never. Some attitudes have changed, but not many.

Old fashioned thinking. Whine. Whine. Whine.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Old fashioned thinking. Whine. Whine. Whine.

Whatever you want to call it Bud. "What goes around, comes around"

[jtf1972]

My god. It's becoming so clear... Coleman Alexander Young was born May 24, 1918. Since then, there have been two major riots in Detroit, millions have died, countless businesses and jobs have been lost, the passenger rail industry collapsed, two nuclear devices were detonated Hitler rose to power, JFK was assasinated and the USA has been attacked by Japan and Al-Qaeda.

Clearly this is no coincidence, as he was a racist [[and the only one EVER in the entire Detroit area.)

Thanks for pointing out that he was a racist. Never heard that before!

[English]

^And that was the perfect response. There are suburbanites my age who dislike Young who were still kids when he died! That would be like me hating Hubbard. Hubbard who?

One could argue that you'd have to be delusional to endure Jim Crow and come out on the other side wanting to lick the other side's boots. Only black men who were candidates for sainthood or masochists could have had any sort of blithe reaction to their treatment in pre-1965 America, and those with a bit of ego or even dignity weren't willing to forget everything just because of some papers being signed. Anyone who says otherwise is dishonest or ignorant of recent history, or even contemporary events. [[Recent talk of repealing the 14th Amendment, anyone? Google it if you think I'm exaggerating.)

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Good comments English. Some of these people don't have a clue what it was like being black in america during the first half of this century or like some say, I didn't cause what happened 100 years ago, don't blame me. Even with the first black president in history, a lot has still not changed much. Some of these posters attitudes are still from that era sadly.

[R8RBOB]

When I read that Coleman Young is a racist, I am reminded that he was a Black man with power. Because he had power, he could say and do as he pleased and trust me a number of Whites hated it. They hated that a Black man could basically put Whites in their place.This and sound bites made him a "racist." For the record, I don't recall DPD shaking down Whites as they crossed the borders to enter Detroit. If anyone have stories about White people getting profiled by Detroit Police, please share. Thanks.

[mjs]

Listen, racist, social reformer, freedom fighter, whatever, it shouldn't really matter. What matters in reviewing a servant of the people is this, were Detroiter's better off the day he left office than the day he took office? Was crime down? Was per capita income up? Were the parks cleaner? Were there more parks and pools? Were city services more responsive?

[Buy American]

[quote=English;170917]^And that was the perfect response. There are suburbanites my age who dislike Young who were still kids when he died! That would be like me hating Hubbard. Hubbard who?quote]

What are you talking about? Suburbanites? Do you honestly think that it can ONLY be suburbanites who don't/didn't like Young? Give me a break....or, are you are saying it is ONLY Detroiters who love Young; or is it ONLY blacks who love/like Young?

This is like playing the race card only now suburbanites [[who in your opinion must be all lily white) get the blame.

[English]

"There are" does not imply a set that includes all possible members. By arguing against points that I did not make in that post or any of my posts above --by engaging in selective reasoning with obvious ill intent -- you are engaging in straw man tactics.

[Detroit Stylin]

[quote=Buy American;171044]

^And that was the perfect response. There are suburbanites my age who dislike Young who were still kids when he died! That would be like me hating Hubbard. Hubbard who?quote]

What are you talking about? Suburbanites? Do you honestly think that it can ONLY be suburbanites who don't/didn't like Young? Give me a break....or, are you are saying it is ONLY Detroiters who love Young; or is it ONLY blacks who love/like Young?

This is like playing the race card only now suburbanites [[who in your opinion must be all lily white) get the blame.

Perpetual denial based on his ONLY perspective....

[jerrytimes]

When I read that Coleman Young is a racist, I am reminded that he was a Black man with power. Because he had power, he could say and do as he pleased and trust me a number of Whites hated it. They hated that a Black man could basically put Whites in their place.This and sound bites made him a "racist." For the record, I don't recall DPD shaking down Whites as they crossed the borders to enter Detroit. If anyone have stories about White people getting profiled by Detroit Police, please share. Thanks.

Actually when you read that Coleman Young is a racist, that's all it reminded you of. No one cared that he was a black man with power. Do people call Archer a racist, no. I don't even recall many people calling Kwame a racist, even though at times some of the things he said made it seem that he might be. What do you mean that a black man could put whites in their place? They also didn't shake down whites probably because white people hadn't rioted in the city and weren't causing the majority of the crime in the city. [[not that innocent people of any color deserve to be shaken down)