The fight for DPS

**EastsideAl** · July-28-10, 05:30 PM

The Detroit schools were "decentralized" into 8 regional boards by act of the Michigan state legislature in 1971. This came about in response to calls for greater "community involvement" in educational decision-making, and with the idea that local boards would be more responsive to local concerns.

What happened instead is that the boards became sinkholes of just the kind of behavior we see out of the central board today, but harder to check since it was happening out in the neighborhoods well away from most public and media notice. The boards themselves became not much more than political stepping stones for members, or power bases for local political gadflies and hangers-on.

With the enormous waste of money that went with having eight separate boards, eight superintendents, eight sets of administrators, and eight headquarter buildings, and the political corruption and hijinks involved, people soon tired of the whole idea. The schools were recentralized under a single board by Detroit voters by a 2-to-1 margin in 1981.

**EastsideAl** · July-28-10, 05:36 PM

As for me, while I think mayoral control is far from a panacea, I generally favor it. But first you have to have a mayor who wants to take it on and is willing to go out and fight for it like Bloomberg did in NYC or Rhee in Washington. But Bing has consistently not shown that level of interest or engagement with the issue.

**R8RBOB** · July-28-10, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

The Detroit schools were "decentralized" into 8 regional boards by act of the Michigan state legislature in 1971. This came about in response to calls for greater "community involvement" in educational decision-making, and with the idea that local boards would be more responsive to local concerns.

What happened instead is that the boards became sinkholes of just the kind of behavior we see out of the central board today, but harder to check since it was happening out in the neighborhoods well away from most public and media notice. The boards themselves became not much more than political stepping stones for members, or power bases for local political gadflies and hangers-on.

With the enormous waste of money that went with having eight separate boards, eight superintendents, eight sets of administrators, and eight headquarter buildings, and the political corruption and hijinks involved, people soon tired of the whole idea. The schools were recentralized under a single board by Detroit voters by a 2-to-1 margin in 1981.

Thank you for the history. I was on my fours crawling when this happened so I was never aware that the city had bloated school districts, however, as an adult I was curious about the school district building, I think it was on Puritan or Fenkell not sure where but I suppose it was the headquarters of one of the districts you refer to.

**Tig3rzhark** · July-28-10, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Thank you for the history. I was on my fours crawling when this happened so I was never aware that the city had bloated school districts, however, as an adult I was curious about the school district building, I think it was on Puritan or Fenkell not sure where but I suppose it was the headquarters of one of the districts you refer to.

I believe that it was on Puritan and that district building was the Area C building. My parents and I would pass by that building when I would go to church when I was young.

**R8RBOB** · July-28-10, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

I believe that it was on Puritan and that district building was the Area C building. My parents and I would pass by that building when I would go to church when I was young.

Puritan and Wyoming.....thanks for the answer.

**EastsideAl** · July-28-10, 06:01 PM

Oh and to catch you up on the history you may have missed, since you seem a little hazy on the history of race in this area. A significant part of what spurred the move to regional boards was the racial climate of the time. The Detroit Board of Education in 1970 had voted, in a very close vote, to approve a plan to desegregate Detroit high schools. The high schools had long been de facto segregated by simply moving the district lines in response to any change in racial residential patterns, and certain schools were basically designated as "white" schools while others were "black" schools.

This move cause outrage in the white areas of the city and 4 members of the school board were recalled in a special recall election. This, in turn, caused outrage in black neighborhoods in the city since blacks by then made up a majority of students in the district [[especially since so many white kids went to Catholic schools in those days - and there was also a big fight over attempts to get public tax money to fund those schools at the time) but blacks did not yet make up a majority of the city's electorate. There was a very real feeling that the schools were out of the control of the majority of parents who sent their kids there and cries for community control, or even some form of takeover, arose.

Given what had happened in Brooklyn only a couple of years before, and the battle it provoked, it was though better for all involved to go to state level and gain approval for regional boards. This was fine with Lansing, where they did not want to deal with the potential tinderbox of school desegregation. Of course, first the Pontiac desegregation fight in 1971 and then Judge Roth's 1972 ruling on Detroit and its suburbs lit that fuse anyway.

**R8RBOB** · July-28-10, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Oh and to catch you up on the history you may have missed, since you seem a little hazy on the history of race in this area. A significant part of what spurred the move to regional boards was the racial climate of the time. The Detroit Board of Education in 1970 had voted, in a very close vote, to approve a plan to desegregate Detroit high schools. The high schools had long been de facto segregated by simply moving the district lines in response to any change in racial residential patterns, and certain schools were basically designated as "white" schools while others were "black" schools.

This move cause outrage in the white areas of the city and 4 members of the school board were recalled in a special recall election. This, in turn, caused outrage in black neighborhoods in the city since blacks by then made up a majority of students in the district [[especially since so many white kids went to Catholic schools in those days - and there was also a big fight over attempts to get public tax money to fund those schools at the time) but blacks did not yet make up a majority of the city's electorate. There was a very real feeling that the schools were out of the control of the majority of parents who sent their kids there and cries for community control, or even some form of takeover, arose.

Given what had happened in Brooklyn only a couple of years before, and the battle it provoked, it was though better for all involved to go to state level and gain approval for regional boards. This was fine with Lansing, where they did not want to deal with the potential tinderbox of school desegregation. Of course, first the Pontiac desegregation fight in 1971 and then Judge Roth's 1972 ruling on Detroit and its suburbs lit that fuse anyway.

Thanks a lot. Based on your post, I found a copy of The Crisis and in the June-July issue from 1974 there is a story called "The Detroit School Challenge" which details everything you posted with a bit more info worth reading. After reading this, I can see why the Detroit Public School has been in economical and political hell for decades.

**Zacha341** · July-28-10, 07:20 PM

Well stated. An attempt of reasoning the positions out to objectively evaluate the options is rarely part of city politics including DPS. And DPS 'shout' downs has been part of landscape of discord for sometime...

Originally Posted by hamtown mike

I have a good story to help illustrate the current Detroit mindset. I was walking past the old Arcade bar. There was a box on the sidewalk next to, and presumably part of, a larger pile of garbage. It held old newspapers, an old pepsi tin sign, etc in the box. I poked my head inside to ask the guy cleaning the place out if I could dig through the box. "Sure." he said. So I started digging. A few moments later he came out and said "Mmm i don't know... that stuff might be worth something..." yanking the box inside.

If I had not expressed an interest, that box would be in a landfill right now. So how does it relate to DPS? Now that somebody is paying attention to DPS the citizens who have ignored DPS like that box of garbage are now suddenly outraged.

My favorite quote from the meeting was "I have to yell. It's the only way I'll be heard."

There you go kiddies-straight from your role model's mouth. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, the loudest person is right. So why take time to research and get to know all angles of an issue when you can shout your way into being right?

Thankfully there was another speaker who, seeing the absolute breakdown of civil discourse as well as seeing children in the audience said "... what are we teaching our children?"

Befuddled and Baffled and have had a baby- Baffuddled

**English** · July-28-10, 09:17 PM

EastsideAl, thanks so much for this history. I didn't know anything about what happened in the 70s. I was too young to remember the 1970s, but by the time we were kids, there were the Area offices. Were these the vestiges of the regional boards?

And R8RBOB, that article link was great. Maybe we can get someone at one of the newspapers to do a historical series about the Detroit Public Schools so that the voting public can know more about what's already been tried here.

**firstandten** · July-28-10, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

As for me, while I think mayoral control is far from a panacea, I generally favor it. But first you have to have a mayor who wants to take it on and is willing to go out and fight for it like Bloomberg did in NYC or Rhee in Washington. But Bing has consistently not shown that level of interest or engagement with the issue.

I agree, however all Bing needs to do is hire a mover and shaker as super and provide that person with political cover as Fenty does with Rhee in DC

**firstandten** · July-28-10, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by rustic2

I don't have a strong opinion on city/mayoral control of DPS. But I'd like its proponents to exlain this to me: How would it help?

That's not a knock on Bing, and I know such arrangements have shown results in other cities and that the current administration and school board are deeply dysfunctional.

But why is mayoral control seen as a magic bullet? The problems at DPS run so deep and have been 40 or more years in the making. They can't be blamed only on the board, the administration and the teachers. Security is poor at best, parents are too apathetic or too busy, the local economy holds out no hope or educational incentives, the financial bad news never never stops and people continue to flee.

How much difference could the mayor really make?

Simply, its an accountability issue. The mayor is not going to run the schools on a day to day basis but he will be held accountable for the success or failure of the school district. It will be up to the mayor to select a person to actually run the schools and let that person do their job.

Its very difficult to hold 11 school board members politically accountable. Their elections are staggered and unless you go to all school board meetings or have inside knowledge, you don't know which board members to hold accountable for their screwups.

The mayor has a vested interest in keeping his job, thats where we as voters have some leverage.

**EastsideAl** · July-29-10, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by English

EastsideAl, thanks so much for this history. I didn't know anything about what happened in the 70s. I was too young to remember the 1970s, but by the time we were kids, there were the Area offices. Were these the vestiges of the regional boards?

And R8RBOB, that article link was great. Maybe we can get someone at one of the newspapers to do a historical series about the Detroit Public Schools so that the voting public can know more about what's already been tried here.

Yes, the area offices were what was left of the regional structure once the regional boards were voted out of existence. The area offices were primarily administrative and each had an area head who reported to the superintendent and the board downtown. Eventually these area offices were phased out as well.

Thanks from me too to R8RBOB for digging up that article. Jogged a lot of memories, not all of them happy ones. My mother and several of her friends were heavily involved in the efforts to peacefully and cooperatively desegregate Detroit schools, and begin some healing and understanding between races. They were consistently shocked and disheartened at the extreme resistance they met at every turn. I was a student in those same schools at the time.

**R8RBOB** · July-29-10, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by English

EastsideAl, thanks so much for this history. I didn't know anything about what happened in the 70s. I was too young to remember the 1970s, but by the time we were kids, there were the Area offices. Were these the vestiges of the regional boards?

And R8RBOB, that article link was great. Maybe we can get someone at one of the newspapers to do a historical series about the Detroit Public Schools so that the voting public can know more about what's already been tried here.

Like yourself English, I was not aware of this sad history. I started school in 1976 and I wasn't exposed to the ugliness that previous Detroit students had to endure. It goes to show that DPS had to struggle to survive. I agree that the media should document the history of DPS so that Detroiters like myself know the history of this troubled school system. What troubled me more after reading the article was how the Nixon administration tried to stop the judge from enacting his order to desegregate.

**royce** · July-29-10, 05:49 AM

Think about this. Currently board members spend their money or money from campaign contributions to get elected to the board. Yet, they do not get paid a salary. In fact, board member have full time jobs doing other things that may or may not have anything to do with education. In addition, they only meet so many times during the month to discuss and vote on things. So, what is their motivation to become a school board member? Do they do it simply out of a sense of altruism for the children of the district? Or do they become a member simply to enrich their pockets or use the position as a stepping stone to higher office?

What if board members were paid a salary and functioned like a city council, voting on decisions made by the superintendent? Would that improve the system?

**royce** · July-29-10, 05:59 AM

Here's another thing to think about. Instead of the mayor being in charge of the school district and picking the superintendent, could the mayor or more likely a representive picked by the mayor serve as one of the school board members? I suggest this because I believe that the mayor should have some say in how the public school system within the city that he or she is in charge of is run. Having voting power on the board is the minimal amount of intrusion that a mayor could have, but at least he or she would have some say and power over the decisions made by the board of education. Just something to think about.

**Danny** · July-29-10, 08:18 AM

Keep King Bing for doing his thing for control of DPS. He will not be the H.N.I.C. of DPS. Let this proposal die.

**GoGrixdale** · July-29-10, 01:13 PM

I agree with mayoral oversight based on the office of the mayor not on any particular office holder. Policy should have nothing to do with politics.

That said...

Election times are almost always difficult in my home. Armchair debates and relentless Google searches takes its toll on the happiness and cohesiveness of my family. We love elections but the energy that must be expended to be able to LIVE with the ballots we cast is great.

When fulfilling my civic duty and voting I always feel incompetent to elect this board of unknown individuals to educate my sons peers [[he goes to a charter school). Who has time or resources to perform proper due diligence for all 11 of them? [[Apparently no one thus far). So, I’ve abstained from casting a vote for school board members in quite a few elections. Worse yet, I find myself voting AGIANST rather than FOR.

I feel I can hold the feet of the mayor to the fire if things don’t go well.

To this end I would like to see:

The mayor appoints an Executive Superintendant.

A collective body from the universities located within the city [[and/or the region) appoint a Curriculum Chair.

The Detroit City Council elects one of IT’s members as a Civic Chair

Taxpayers elect a Fiscal Chair.

Parents select a Guidance Chair

... voters and parents would still control 80% of this scenario? With the other 20% being controlled by someone smarter than me. I can live with that…

**firstandten** · July-29-10, 02:37 PM

I know Stephen Henderson comes on this forum from time to time I just want to let him know this was as passionate an article on the subject that I've read in some time.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle

**hamtown mike** · July-29-10, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by royce

What if board members were paid a salary and functioned like a city council, voting on decisions made by the superintendent? Would that improve the system?

I like this idea. I say put it on the ballot next to the mayoral control issue. A this or that vote. Don't forget to note whom will be paying the salaries.

**evergreen** · July-29-10, 08:42 PM

This afternoon, city council rejected this proposal by a 6 to 3 vote. Only Pugh, Brown and Jenkins supported the measure.

A few thoughts:

This council is head and shoulders above its predecessor. Don't be fooled by some of the antics of the opponents of this measure - council actually deliberated. If you listened to the final discussion this afternoon, you heard people addressing the issues raised and not engaging in vituperation.

I was especially impressed by Ken Cockrel who gave a very reasoned basis for his opposition - basically that both the way in which this has been forwarded and the substance of the measure are very shaky. He didn't take it lightly, he has four kids who are in the DPS system. There needs to be a much broader discussion of what is to be done and the possibility of this state legislature doing anything between the November election and the anticipated arrival of a Republican governor is next to nil. Passing this measure would have left people with the impression they'd done something when in fact they hadn't.

Second, there is a huge void at the very center of Detroit politics and its name is Dave Bing.