Who's wasting our highway funds??

[Novine]

"But, doesn't the M in M14 mean that it's a state highway rather than federal/interstate like the others are?"

Federal dollars = federal requirements. MDOT likely follows federal guidelines even for non-federal projects.

[Detroitej72]

Great feedback all... my biggest beef about all those new signs that are currently only on the Macomb County stretch of the roadway is that this cost is benefitting a few unfamiliar [[or clueless) drivers, whereas using the money to fix the roadways would benefit ALL the drivers.

For anyone who has taken the 10 Mile, 11 Mile/I696 or 12 Mile exits off of I-94, it is not a pleasant experience. The roadway absolutely sucks. That 1/4 cloverleaf from westbound 11 Mile to westbound I-94 has to be the worst shithole of a roadway since they fixed the Paul St. bridge over the Southfield Fwy. [[voted worst roadway in SE Michigan on this forum a few years back)

In the last year I've had to replace 3 tires due to unfixable punctures thanks to these I-94 exits/entrances.... but at least I get to look at all those pretty new signs while I'm a passenger in the tow truck...

Didn't they rebuild that ramp in 95? That would make it only 14 years old, and the rest of 696 was built in the early 80's and it isn't nearly as bad. Why don't we use the European standard for concrete, which is, I think something like 8 inchs thicker than our standards, but lasts twice as long.

[mikeydbn]

M-14 is part of the National Highway System.

Here is a map of NHS routes in Metro Detroit

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MD...t_150611_7.pdf

[diver1369]

Prov., I'm curious about how the northern tier of States handle the winter roads of heavy snow, ice and freeze-thaw cycles that are another factor in Michigan road conditions. How do they handle those challenges and how do their roads compare to ours?

[Providence]

I've recently been living in New England and the roads here seem to hold up much, much better. I have traveled much through MA, NH, VT, RI and CT and I have rarely encountered rough roads. I find that I also rarely encounter construction, unless major construction is happening [[like adding more lanes or moving exits). You don't have to come all the way out here to notice this difference, though. Even roads in Canada or Ohio seem to hold up better. I've also driven through Colorodo and observed this. Just like in Michigan, other states use salt [[usually) and plows to deal with cold weather. I'm not saying potholes never happen, but the roads don't seem to disintegrate over a single winter and then become totally pockmarked from the spring patching.

If anything, I'm ususally quick to defend Michigan when there's good reason [[in other words, I'm not saying this to point out that other states are better), but to me Michigan road conditions seem extremely subpar. The frequency that they get repaved, they should be excellent.

If anyone wants to counterpoint this, that's fine. But it's my observation, at least.

[RO_Resident]

A few things are in play here--

Intermediate mile markers are allowed under national highway signing standards. Michigan has decided to adopt the 2/10th of a mile markers on urban freeways. The standard was adopted because it helps drivers measure their progress. It also helps identify the location of incidents.

Why would you want the physical markers in this age of GPS? GPS doesn't work everywhere. There are dead spots on many of our below-grade freeways. On top of that, there is not universal interoperability between GPS devices. The GPS coordinates may not pass from the 911 operator to the police, fire department, or EMT. The signs may be the most effective way to get the right people to the right location.

Why are signs being replaced? There are standards for the retroreflectivity of signs. The reflective material also wears out over time. When you drive at night, you may find signs that have minimal or inconsistent reflectivity.

I have also noticed on I-75 a lot of sign poles have been replaced with breakaway poles.

[Detroitej72]

I think the break away poles are in case a car hits them, they are supposed to be safer. I vaguely recall reading about them some time back.

[Novine]

Comparisons of roads in places like Vermont or New Hampshire to roads in Michigan aren't very helpful. Our freeways measure traffic volumes in the hundreds of thousands of trips per day. Those states don't have the urban centers or the traffic volumes that we have here in SE Michigan. The combined population of the entire state of VT and NH doesn't even equal the population of SE Michigan. If you look at a map of the United States, you can see that Detroit is one of the most northerly major population centers in the country. Only Minneapolis/St. Paul is anywhere close in size and shares the weather conditions that Detroit experiences.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/ima...n_2005_lrg.jpg

Boston on the East Coast and Portland and Seattle on the West Coast don't experience as harsh of winters as Detroit.

[professorscott]

If you look at all the northern states east of the Mississippi, we differ from most of the others in two significant ways.

1. We allow much heavier trucks than, I believe, any other state in the Union.

2. The maintenance for every one of our highways comes from Federal aid and the taxes we pay. If you look at Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, New York, [[et cetera, et cetera), they have one or more major highways which is a toll road - so all the money for the upkeep of that road [[or those roads) comes from tolls, so the bucket of money for free highways doesn't have to be spread as thinly.

So if we want our roads to be in decent shape, we have to do one or more of the following: limit weights to what other states consider reasonable; charge a toll for some of our highways [[difficult to do as an afterthought); increase the amount we pay for road upkeep through taxes.

I don't know of any other option. Does anyone else?