Detnews: BCBS Moving 3,000 Downtown from Southfield

**English** · July-28-10, 08:52 AM

Huggybear, great post.

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

This was a helluva of a post but it speaks the truth in why the suburbs are tapped out. The suburbs offered vast acres of lands and no taxes. Eventually, the question comes up on how do the suburban cities offset the money they are not getting from these businesses that setup shop in their communities? How do you pay for police, fire, the library? In regards, to the questions of the schools, Suburban communities decided that they would let Detroit kids fill seats in their schools to get the state money that would go to Detroit, however, due to the bad reputation that DPS has they can't recruit suburban kids to attend their schools to offset the losses that they are occurring.

Out-of-state flight of young couples and families is also hurting the region. Detroit's loss of population is dramatic and unprecedented but there are far too many For Sale signs in western Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. Some of the young people who head for the Chicago metro, the Sun Belt, and elsewhere for jobs may return one day to raise their kids, but not enough of them are doing so right now.

bartock · July-28-10, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not ignoring the context of your response. I am critiquing the way in which you responded to what you quoted.

Must have jumped over this yesterday. I really do enjoy and appreciate your positions and critiques.

From what I'm reading of others, the discussion is becoming more substantive, which is nice.

Stosh · July-28-10, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Well said. I have nothing against Southfield, but that ridiculous "Town Center," was a real catalyst for the steady decline of Detroit's CBD. Honestly, what a slap in the face to build a series of generic office towers with the sole goal of poaching away Detroit's corporate residents. I am a supporter of the whole Metro region, but Southfield really went too far. It's one thing to overbuild suburban housing, but it's a whole different thing to build giant office towers when there are vacant skyscrapers in Detroit.

Because of irresponsible developments like Town Center, a lot of people are going to get hurt as our region begins the arduous task of putting the toothpaste back in the tube, that is, the businesses back in the fricken business district.

Yeah, they've been saying the same thing about the Fisher Building and New Center since 1928, as well.

**Detroitnerd** · July-28-10, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Stosh

Yeah, they've been saying the same thing about the Fisher Building and New Center since 1928, as well.

Yes, New Center was touted by writer Joel Garreau as the first "Edge City," cropping up where a spoke road hit a belt road, outside of a traditional downtown. They broke ground on it in 1919. You'll find that no new downtowns were built in the United States after 1915, the year the millionth Ford came off the line. Putting the toothpaste back in the tube is an interesting turn of phrase to describe taking the sprawl and trying to pack it back into a type of environment we haven't built in almost 100 years.

**Savoyard** · July-28-10, 12:27 PM

Memo went out this morning to all BCBSM employees, stating an official announcement on "BCBSM Real Estate in Southeastern Michigan" will be made tomorrow morning. I'm sure it will be all over the news by tomorrow afternoon.

**BrushStart** · July-28-10, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Stosh

Yeah, they've been saying the same thing about the Fisher Building and New Center since 1928, as well.

Look, I'm all for the free market, give people options, etc. But, what Southfield and other suburban communities did was poaching for all intents and purposes. Those buildings were built for the specific purpose of luring businesses out Detroit's CBD. They were not commissioned to "compete" for some company relocating to Michigan from NYC- that I would have no problem with.

Additionally, I never said Southfield should have been stopped from building the TC, I said that it was irresponsible, because it was. Such is clear now that businesses have started moving on to the next suburban "place to be." The region has no long-term vision. There will continue to be an increasing oversupply of vacant office space, which will decimate property values and push more commerical properties into foreclosure, at which point the buildings will fall into disrepair and become blighted. Sound familiar?

The lack of regional responsibility is killing Metro Detroit. First, suburban sprawl doubled the housing stock for the same amount of people. That leaves 50% of the homes vacant. Every time a developer throws up a new turd in the outerlands, the value of your home gets dinged. When you throw up a series of skyscrapers when there is already an oversupply of dense office space in the region, you get large scale abandonment and blight. Do I feel sorry for the suburbs like Southfield that are going to get "Detroited" now by other burbs, yes and no. It was their leadership's shortsighted doings, but the whole region gets burned when you have a bunch of 40-story eyesores visible off the highway.

Edit: Needless to say, if I see another office complex being built on the fringes of Metro Detroit, I am going to snap. These projects only line the pockets of developers who have no interest but their own in mind.

**Focus313** · July-28-10, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

Look, I'm all for the free market, give people options, etc. But, what Southfield and other suburban communities did was poaching for all intents and purposes. Those buildings were built for the specific purpose of luring businesses out Detroit's CBD. They were not commissioned to compete for some company relocating to Michigan from NYC- that I would have no problem with.

Additionally, I never said Southfield should have been stopped from building the TC, I said that it was irresponsible, because it was. Such is clear now that businesses have started moving on to the next suburban "place to be." The region has no long-term vision. There will continue to be an increasing oversupply of vacant office space, which will decimate property values and push more commerical properties into foreclosure, at which point the buildings will fall into disrepair and become blighted. Sound familiar?

The lack of regional responsibility is killing Metro Detroit. First, suburban sprawl doubled the housing stock for the same amount of people. That leaves 50% of the homes vacant. Every time a developer throws up a new turd in the outerlands, the value of your home gets dinged. When you throw up a series of skyscrapers when there is already an oversupply of dense office space in the region, you get large scale abandonment and blight. Do I feel sorry for the suburbs like Southfield that are going to get "Detroited" now by other burbs, yes and no. It was their leadership's shortsighted doings, but the whole region gets burned when you have a bunch of 40-story eyesores visible off the highway.

Yup, what he said....except I DON'T feel sorry for the burbs. They're simply reaping what was sown years ago by black fearing whites.

**detmsp** · July-28-10, 01:16 PM

Sure, it would be better to have BCBS and other companies in a dense downtown than in the suburbs... but this move is the result of layoffs! Hardly something to celebrate.

**casscorridor** · July-28-10, 03:58 PM

I'd rather see Southfield do good than Troy. I think Southfield could sustain itself if it had a rail connection to Downtown, and from there to the Airport. As for Troy, it's future doesn't look so bright. Auburn Hills? Hahahahahaha.

**Johnlodge** · July-28-10, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

I'd rather see Southfield do good than Troy.

What sort of good? Charity work?

**jt1** · July-28-10, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Johnlodge

What sort of good? Charity work?

Keep the libraries open for residents. That would be good.

**Johnlodge** · July-28-10, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Keep the libraries open for residents. That would be good.

That would be good.

bartock · July-28-10, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

I'd rather see Southfield do good than Troy. I think Southfield could sustain itself if it had a rail connection to Downtown, and from there to the Airport. As for Troy, it's future doesn't look so bright. Auburn Hills? Hahahahahaha.

Yeah, this region will be so much better when Auburn Hills falls into the pits of hell from where it came. Troy too. And let's set fire to the entire M-59 corridor. Then we can celebrate our victory and turn our gaze to the western suburbs. I've got dibs on that evil land called Livonia.

**Patrick** · July-28-10, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Yeah, this region will be so much better when Auburn Hills falls into the pits of hell from where it came. Troy too. And let's set fire to the entire M-59 corridor. Then we can celebrate our victory and turn our gaze to the western suburbs. I've got dibs on that evil land called Livonia.

Hey bitches, I got Utica..all mine.

**Detroit Stylin** · July-28-10, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Focus313

Yup, what he said....except I DON'T feel sorry for the burbs. They're simply reaping what was sown years ago by black fearing whites.

Agreed 100000000% but I'd add perpetuated by the same......I wont call any names [[L. Brooks Patterson) since I don't want to slander anyone...

**Savoyard** · July-29-10, 10:54 AM

It's official! 3,000 BCBSM employees will be transferred from Southfield to Towers 500 and 600 in the RenCen, starting 3d quarter 2011. BCBSM cross and shield banners now adorn the outside of the two towers. Great news for Detroit and beyond ...

**French777** · July-29-10, 11:57 AM

The Free Press said the Ren Cen will now be 90 percent occupied!

**MotownSpartan** · July-29-10, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by French777

The Free Press said the Ren Cen will now be 90 percent occupied!

Is this just for towers 500 & 600 or for the entire complex? Isn't there still a lot of vacant space in towers 100-400?

**French777** · July-29-10, 02:51 PM

I had the same question. It said it would have a higher occupancy rate that hasn't been seen in quite some time. Quote from the Freep article..

" Blue Cross will occupy the 500 tower and a majority of the 600 tower in the RenCen, meaning about 90% of the massive complex will be filled, its highest occupancy rate in many years, Loepp said. "

**Patrick** · July-29-10, 03:47 PM

What kind of economic impact will this have on the city as a whole? How much $$ can it really bring in?

**DetroitPlanner** · July-29-10, 03:53 PM

What happened with EDS and Onstar who were in 500 and 600 were they moved to another tower?

**BrushStart** · July-29-10, 03:56 PM

If each employee spends on average $50/week in the downtown economy, that's $600,000/mo injected into local businesses, or $7,800,000/yr. [[Obviously, those businesses and their employees also pay taxes to the city, so the gain is compounded.)

If the average salary of a BCBS employee is $50,000/yr, then total city tax revenue for all 3,000 employees at 1.25% will be $1,875,000.

Edit: If you add in 1,700 Quicken employees + 500 Galaxee employees each spending $50/wk downtown, that is an additional $3,380,000/yr or a total of $11,180,000/yr of support to local businesses. I think the amount will actually be much higher as people who rarely frequented downtown in the past will likely bring friends and family to the city to spend money as well. And, if people start renting or buying places to live, the number increases significantly as one's home is usually a person's biggest expenditure.

**Motown Madman** · July-29-10, 04:22 PM

So they're expanding they're headquarters downtown?

**Patrick** · July-29-10, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

If each employee spends on average $50/week in the downtown economy, that's $600,000/mo injected into local businesses, or $7,800,000/yr. [[Obviously, those businesses and their employees also pay taxes to the city, so the gain is compounded.)

If the average salary of a BCBS employee is $50,000/yr, then total city tax revenue for all 3,000 employees at 1.25% will be $1,875,000.

Edit: If you add in 1,700 Quicken employees + 500 Galaxee employees each spending $50/wk downtown, that is an additional $3,380,000/yr or a total of $11,180,000/yr of support to local businesses. I think the amount will actually be much higher as people who rarely frequented downtown in the past will likely bring friends and family to the city to spend money as well. And, if people start renting or buying places to live, the number increases significantly as one's home is usually a person's biggest expenditure.

Is that amount enough to offset a declining population level?

**BrushStart** · July-29-10, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Is that amount enough to offset a declining population level?

It's enough to offset a declining Downtown population. I think the City of Detroit's population will continue to decline on the whole, while the New Center, Midtown, Downtown, and Riverfront communities will continue to grow. I actually think that this is the healthiest way to re-establish the city. It is too cost prohibitive to attempt to save every block within Detroit's 138+ square miles. People who are living in the worst communities are still going to attempt to escape until the inward growth starts to spread that far out, which may take 50+ years.

If Detroit continues to lose population on its fringes but gain population at its core, someday the yearly raw numbers may appear to be a wash. For the meantime, I still expect Detroit's population as a whole to decline, albeit slower than before. Hopefully, those who are attempting to move out will actually consider moving closer in to avoid the blight and despair.