What Direction is Detroit Heading?

[daddeeo]

Even dead bodies come to the surface eventually unless they are tied down.
The future is so bright , we'll have to wear shades.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Very interesting discussion--can't help noticing the range of opinions. I have to say it reminds me of this paragraph, from the last page of my novel Grand River and Joy.

These are the thoughts of the main character--Harry Levine--in the mid-80s in Detroit. I know it's not a pragmatic answer to the question being posed, but it's a novelistic one.

Everywhere he looked, he saw various stages of repair and decay. The world was served up as a spectrum from marvelous to ravaged, with an infinite number of way stops and combinations. People’s bodies, a building, roads, a house, cars, even car parts [[mufflers, radiators, tires), items in his own refrigerator [[a piece of apple pie left too long, a hunk of cheese), tree stumps, relationships. You couldn’t say that anything was just one way [[decaying or rebuilding, on the upswing or the down, dying or surviving). It all depended on the moment, and on where you looked. It was a matter of proportion. He’d see a detail on the crown of a building, marvelous, left over from its glory days in the 20s, while at street level, a sloppy hand-painted sign or heavy metal grate, even barbed wire, covered its face. Or something could look beautiful on the outside—a woman, a tree—and inside, there was sickness, something growing that was also destroying. This was what he had come to understand about the world.

Very well put. Detroit is rebuilding and decaying all at the same time. Looks like it is decaying more than rebuilding but your paragraph puts it very well. Insightful post, thanks.

[Danny]

Detroit is headed up when the slum clearance of poor black communities happens.

Detroit is headed down when the slums re-appears.

[JJD]

I think the city is going at two different directions at once.

On one hand, the city still has a lot of the same dysfunctionalities, services are getting worse, people are still moving out, etc.

But on the other hand, the region's attitude towards Detroit is changing. More people are going to Detroit for events, and even for business. More people are saying "there are nice parts of Detroit". I think in a way Detroit has opened up, and has gotten more people involved.

So I'd say that the greater downtown area is improving in general. The average Detroit neighborhood is getting worse.

I wonder what direction other neighborhoods are going though. How's Indian Village or Palmer Woods/university district?

I grew up in the Cass Corridor 80-2000, went off to college and Farmington Hills for a year, then moved back into the corridor for a few years. Last year I moved to West Village [[just outside Indian Village), although the foreclosure market has affected Indian Village, I still think it is one of the best neighborhoods in Michigan. The houses are nothing short of amazing and so rich in historical significance.

When I visit Cass Corridor I see it trending way up. Wayne State and DMC expanding with new buildings, Woodward looking way less abandond downtown. It was just in the last decade or so that half of the things to do downtown were added [[campus martius, stadiums, casinos, many new restaurants, riverwalk etc.)

I can't believe how great my neighborhood in West Village is, and as Detroiters we share a common bond in the suffering we share through our horribly run city. I was over at my neighbors house a few days ago for dinner with several other families from the block, we had fantastic evening sharing our concerns and hopes for the future of this city. IT was great to gain perspectives from people who have been here for 40 years, and the young couple who moved in this year.

I for one think the city will continue to dtruggle for a long time to come, but that struggle will create great people with stories over overcoming adversity. I for one am frustrated with our lack of options for leadership. I will be voting in this election, but am far from passionate about any of the candidates. I have and will continue to attempt to make Detroit better on my block, my street, my neighborhood, and as far out as I can go. I can just hope more people do the same. I have always and will always love this city [[not her leadership).

Sorry for the rant, just thought this thread could use some positivity. Reading Detroit Yes has gotten very depressing lately. Seems more and more like Detroit No.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Reading Detroit Yes has gotten very depressing lately. Seems more and more like Detroit No.

It has always seemed like DetroitNO to me. More aptly, DetroitThatWas. Seems like Detroit was much loved before 1967. After that, she was quite hated.

[BrushStart]

It has always seemed like DetroitNO to me. More aptly, DetroitThatWas. Seems like Detroit was much loved before 1967. After that, she was quite hated.

Sometimes, when I'm up late and all that's on is that infomercial for the book about the secret of "The Law of Attraction," which is basically the theory that if you think and act like good things are going to happen, they cosmos will provide you such things. Conversely, if you envision the worst, that's what you'll get.

Detroit makes me wonder if there isn't some merit to this. 40 years of everyone pondering how bad it is. If Detroit were a case study, it would definitely reinforce these quacks' crazy philosophies. However, I won't be buying the book.

[R8RBOB]

I don't have a strong opinion on city/mayoral control of DPS. But I'd like its proponents to exlain this to me: How would it help?

That's not a knock on Bing, and I know such arrangements have shown results in other cities and that the current administration and school board are deeply dysfunctional.

But why is mayoral control seen as a magic bullet? The problems at DPS run so deep and have been 40 or more years in the making. They can't be blamed only on the board, the administration and the teachers. Security is poor at best, parents are too apathetic or too busy, the local economy holds out no hope or educational incentives, the financial bad news never never stops and people continue to flee.

How much difference could the mayor really make?

No, mayoral control is not a magic bullet but whenever there is talk of change there is always one common denominator: money

You're right DPS has been falling downward for decades and the blame is on everyone. The board, the parents, the teachers, the students, everyone. One of the reason there is a call for mayoral control is because if Detroit don't make the first move then the next governor will surely do an Engler and the mayor will get control by default. Another reason for control is that Dept of Ed. has turned off the faucet for money coming to Detroit. Something has to change.

[BrushStart]

No, mayoral control is not a magic bullet but whenever there is talk of change there is always one common denominator: money

You're right DPS has been falling downward for decades and the blame is on everyone. The board, the parents, the teachers, the students, everyone. One of the reason there is a call for mayoral control is because if Detroit don't make the first move then the next governor will surely do an Engler and the mayor will get control by default. Another reason for control is that Dept of Ed. has turned off the faucet for money coming to Detroit. Something has to change.

Yeah, pouring federal money onto the DPS problem won't change anything. The problems with DPS are so systemic, that only a total overhaul seems to be a solution. I hate to say it, but it appears as though there is as much adversity to changing the way DPS operates as there are people fighting for improvements. There really has to be a strong City/State mandate force-fixing the problem, otherwise, the old ineffective DPS guard will struggle for power and stall any progress. A no holds barred approach by a qualified person with virtually omnipotent decision-making authority will have to take charge using tactics not unlike Sherman's march to the sea.

[kryptonite]

Aha! the Kresge Foundation agrees with those of us that believe Detroit is recovering and experiencing a renewal:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...nce-in-Detroit


I think that considering the bad economy, the developments in Midtown and Downtown, the riverfront, and midtown east of Woodward are even more impressive. Hopefully the resurgence will gather even more momentum in the event that the US economy gets through the Great Recession.

[R8RBOB]

Anyone thinks Detroit is bad, read about Pontiac....http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...402/1408/local

[casscorridor]

Aha! the Kresge Foundation agrees with those of us that believe Detroit is recovering and experiencing a renewal:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...nce-in-Detroit


I think that considering the bad economy, the developments in Midtown and Downtown, the riverfront, and midtown east of Woodward are even more impressive. Hopefully the resurgence will gather even more momentum in the event that the US economy gets through the Great Recession.

Great, so when are they moving Downtown again? To the empty Kresge Building offices?

[Motown Madman]

I'd say Detroit is going in both directions, Detroit's too much of a big city to measure it. All the downtown Developments that attract hipsters to move from the suburbs are doing alright, that's good. Increasing numbers of shops and restaurants, and a larger presence of foot traffic, good. Riverfront additions, like the new state park and Marina, good.
Then there's the whole thing with the city council and corruption in it. Slumlords like Matty 'Moron' Maroun and Illitch with Tiger stadium, that list is endless.

[fanniemae]

After Bing is voted out, and the old hangers on from the Kilpatrick era are gone, there could be some economic growth. Can't get much lower than recievership, which is not too far away once all the forth coming lawsuits are paid. Land will go for next to nothing, developers can start building again. Sideways is about right, at the time being. City will come back eventually. But it won't be the fifth largest city ever again.

Detroit Uncovered is reporting Detroit could go into recievership once the election over in Novemeber. Detroit is broke. Beyond broke. We need a new start.

[Rockin' Best]

To steal and repurpose the best line from "The Last Picture Show," be it offered that "Nothing has been right since Slumpy died."

If I owned the Ambassador Bridge, I would augment the present structure with one of the wildest steel rollercoasters ever constructed. Taking coaster cars to the top of one of the suspension towers would provide huge drops and barrel rolls over the roadway and its traffic. Riders would get big G-forces while they go out over the water and back, way high up. So fast it's scary. And it sets you back on the Detroit side so there's no hassles from crossing over. Can you visualize this? Fun fantasy.

[Fury13]

I was born in Detroit. It is my ancestral home. I love it, yet I despise much of what it has become. There are pockets of hope, but I don't believe that the city has even started to bottom out.

You'll see the worst in the next decade. I feel that the '20s will be marginally better. After that, who knows? You might notice a sustained upswing in 20 to 25 years, IF the local economy becomes more diversified and the city can attract a significant number of immigrants.

[Fnemecek]

I think the opposite is true. Detroit is not going to change by having neighborhoods that can compete with the suburbs. The suburbs have mastered that game, and it will be almost impossible for Detroit to win at it.

Detroit has to play its strongest suits, those being, downtown, midtown, new center, and the riverfront. Face it, outside of Ann Arbor, Detroit is the only actual "city" in this part of the region. The suburbs cannot attract new businesses because companies are not looking to relocate to a generic office park in suburbia anymore. Being located downtown is a status symbol for businesses, which is why they headquarter in expensive places like Chicago and NYC. Fix downtown and the Woodward corridor and people like Dan Gilbert will continue to come. Detroit needs fresh faces with deep pockets. Attracting people to Detroit's crumbling neighborhoods with cheap real estate is important, but it is far less important than a company moving 2,000 employess downtown.

It's nice that Lowell allows 5th graders to post here, too.

The CBD amounts to 0.03% of Detroit's land mass. Add in Brush Park, Midtown, and so on and it's still less than 10% of Detroit.

No city in the world can succeed by writing off 90%+ of its landmass, especially if it wants the people in those areas to continue paying taxes.

As for a company moving 2,000 employees downtown, that' nice but it's worthless when we have 10,000+ residents leaving every year. For starters, those residents pay a lot more in taxes than any of the non-resident downtown workers.

[Fnemecek]

Detroit Uncovered is reporting Detroit could go into recievership once the election over in Novemeber. Detroit is broke. Beyond broke. We need a new start.

I pray he is right.

[DetroitDad]

Why do people think receivership is a bad thing?

[Bearinabox]

Why do people think receivership is a bad thing?

Um, because it means the city can't afford to run itself?

[BrushStart]

It's nice that Lowell allows 5th graders to post here, too.

The CBD amounts to 0.03% of Detroit's land mass. Add in Brush Park, Midtown, and so on and it's still less than 10% of Detroit.

No city in the world can succeed by writing off 90%+ of its landmass, especially if it wants the people in those areas to continue paying taxes.

As for a company moving 2,000 employees downtown, that' nice but it's worthless when we have 10,000+ residents leaving every year. For starters, those residents pay a lot more in taxes than any of the non-resident downtown workers.

5th grade? Try doctorate.

Now, with that cleared up, perhaps you would consider the fact that Detroit is not going to win at providing the best neighborhoods in the region. People will only stay in Detroit if the city has something to offer. That something is jobs and city services. So yeah, maybe 2k employees coming downtown is not going to revitalize each of the burned-out, blighted neighborhoods, but it provides the opportunity for the city to add 2k highly paid workers to its residential tax roll. Maybe then the city's coffers will be flush enough to pay for police and fire. Change comes from the inside out, not the other way around. Detroit needs a healthy core- a viable central business district- else the neighborhoods [[the 90%) might as well be razed tomorrow. So yes, play to Detroit's strong suits, which is about 10% of the city, or watch another 10k leave next year because without that 10%, Detroit is merely a decaying suburb with astronomically high taxes and lousy city services.

[papillonaquatique]

How much per year are taxes in Detroit? Can't be that bad can it?

[mwilbert]

I have to agree with BrushStart here.

The serious problems with most Detroit neighborhoods are crime and schools. Those are not being fixed, and no one relevant has proposed anything that is going to fix them.

On the other hand, while crime and schools are problems for midtown and downtown as well, they are less salient--there is a higher level of police presence in those areas, and they have attractions for the childless. They also have the capability of attracting visitors in a way that is unlike any normal neighborhood. To my way of thinking it makes sense to concentrate on making those areas more viable.

[Fnemecek]

BrushStart:
You make wonderful arguments, for a world where money doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, in this world, money does matter. The simple fact of the matter is that non-resident office workers do not bring in anywhere near enough tax revenue to support a city. They couldn't even support the CBD itself.

This is why, after 40+ years of doing things the way you advocate, downtown is in worse shape now than it was 40 years ago.

[Fnemecek]

How much per year are taxes in Detroit? Can't be that bad can it?

Property taxes range from $2,000 - $3,000 per year - depending on the assessed value of one's home. In addition, there is $300 solid waste fee that is added onto residential property taxes.

The average for all homeowners in the U.S. is $1,183, according to the January 2010 issue of FORBES, to put that in perspective.

Residents pay a 2.5% income tax. Non-residents pay a 1.25% version of it.

There is also a utility tax of 1.25% that gets tacked onto all utility bills.

[bailey]

Um, because it means the city can't afford to run itself?

Um. is there any sane person thinking that the city CAN afford to run itself now?