Spat over Belle Isle parking spot leads to gunfire

**Gianni** · August-09-10, 01:39 PM

Anyone at Belle Isle last night or have any other info about this?

http://www.freep.com/article/2010080...ads-to-gunfire

**Searay215** · August-09-10, 02:49 PM

WXYZ reported that the shooter accidently shot his niece instead of who he was trying to shoot. What an A$$....here is the story.
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/an-argu...-on-belle-isle

**warsaw7** · August-09-10, 05:38 PM

Wow a shooting on Belle Isle over a parking spot......wanna see my surprised face?

**Hypestyles** · August-09-10, 05:52 PM

I don't visit belle isle every week.. or every month, really.. but.. a parking space? seriously? this was during, what, the ribs & soul festival? the island was crowded?

**Detroit Stylin** · August-09-10, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

I don't visit belle isle every week.. or every month, really.. but.. a parking space? seriously? this was during, what, the ribs & soul festival? the island was crowded?

Granted that may have began an argument I can almost gaurantee that it was something else that escalated the situation not that it makes it better or worse....

**DanFromDetroit** · August-09-10, 07:50 PM

Charge a toll & this never happens...

**Detroit Stylin** · August-09-10, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by DanFromDetroit

Charge a toll & this never happens...

Agreed.....it will probably still happen just not the extent that it is now....

**warsaw7** · August-09-10, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by DanFromDetroit

Charge a toll & this never happens...

PROPER +1 I agree 100 percent

**jtf1972** · August-09-10, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by DanFromDetroit

Charge a toll & this never happens...

Banning cars would eliminate fights over parking spaces.

Just sayin'...

**DanFromDetroit** · August-11-10, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

Banning cars would eliminate fights over parking spaces.

Just sayin'...

Or charging 3$ for a car to cross the bridge... the ghetto rats would balk at the charge & there would be cash for keeping the park clean. Of course the suggestion is political poison... Just sayin' back

**Meddle** · August-13-10, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

Banning cars would eliminate fights over parking spaces.

I hate it when my eyes play tricks on me. I thought that said burning.

Must be all those overly verbose posts that don't really say anything.

**jerrytimes** · August-09-10, 08:21 PM

Well, at least this shooting was over something.

That was a poor attempt at sarcasm, and also slightly shows my disgust with this city and why I think it will never come back from the shit hole it for the most part, is.

**313WX** · August-09-10, 09:14 PM

And people wonder why some are in favor of stricter gun laws.

The past few months in Detroit just further support that stance. Some people simply don't know how to use one and if they do know how to use it they don't know WHEN to use it.

**PlymouthRes** · August-09-10, 09:40 PM

This has nothing to do with gun laws. What an ignorant statement.

Certainly doesn't mention whether or not the guy was liscensed to carry a gun or not. So, my guess is he wasn't, didn't have any training, and shot an innocent bystander because he was an ass.

Kind of like those who comment about things that have no business inputting anything if they don't know the facts.

Just to let you know, proper training is everything, and most of the shootings [[except the recent road rage incident in Farmington) have been committed by those who a.) didn't have a CCW and b.) shouldn't have possession of a butter knife, let alone a gun.

Painting everyone who carrys weapons LEGALLY with a broad brush, heh? Typical.

Just my .02.

Res

**pffft** · August-09-10, 09:55 PM

It doesn't matter if you're trained to have a gun, put emotion and anger into the equation b[[and no doubt a lot of beer), and you have a recipe for disaster.

**PlymouthRes** · August-09-10, 10:10 PM

It DOES matter, pffft, as training gives you the law up front, which at least makes you contemplate pulling your weapon and using it in such ridiculous situations. If the dude knew that what he was doing was going to put him in the clink because it wasn't justified, perhaps he wouldn't have done it in the first place. Training [[knowledge of the law) gives at least a bit of heads-up.

I guess we will find out the truth when the WHOLE story comes out.

Carrying a weapon is an awesome responsibilty, not something to be trifiled with. Apparently, these folks don't have the sense they were born with, and, therefore, shouldn't be allowed to roam among the public anyway. They should be locked-up, "indoctrinated" into the ways that sane people deal with disagreements, and then, maybe, released back into the public realm.

The problem is that people allow stupid shit like this to escalate all the time. These outside factors are just an excuse to tolerate abhorrent behavior, and it's time that people need to be re-educated.

**JTistle1** · August-09-10, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by pffft

It doesn't matter if you're trained to have a gun, put emotion and anger into the equation b[[and no doubt a lot of beer), and you have a recipe for disaster.

Any true law-abiding gun carrying citizen would never mix beer into the equation. As for putting emotion and anger into the equation, would that mean every time there is a road rage incident, we should ban cars, or place more rules into effect, maybe make it a law that you should always have both hands on the wheel, making it impossible to give another driver the "you're number one" salute? Emotion and anger is something that the average person should be able to control on their own. If the guy didn't have a gun, he would have found another way to try and inflict bodily harm on the other person.

**daddeeo** · August-10-10, 09:03 AM

Shooting someone is a lot easier then stabbing them or punching them in the face plus it's more impersonal. It's the great equalizer when going against someone bigger, more athletic or maybe smarter.
Not everyone who carries a gun is law abiding, sober or a second amendment adherent.Guns do kill people and are not to be played around with.
Smug, self righteous gun owners should be aware that just because you have a gun doesn't mean you are necessarily safe. Bullets don't recognize good guys from bad guys and girls.

**guito13** · August-10-10, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by pffft

It doesn't matter if you're trained to have a gun, put emotion and anger into the equation b[[and no doubt a lot of beer), and you have a recipe for disaster.

Sigh....one of the first things taught in CPL class is that if you plan on drinking, leave your weapon off your person. All of my friends who carry simply dont bring their weapons with them if they know they will be drinking.

**Hamtragedy** · August-09-10, 10:07 PM

Guns are a great way to resolve conflicts.

**pffft** · August-10-10, 09:27 AM

Hey, I'd looove to know when a shooting of a civilian by a civilian is "justified," other than when someone is breaking into your house.

Do tell.

**PlymouthRes** · August-10-10, 09:43 AM

The law clearly states that you have a right to defend yourself if you feel that your life is being threatened. It is one of the first things you are taught in CCW classes, and, I believe it is a right granted to you in the Constitution. Those are also the "magic words" to deter your arrest after having shot someone in self defence. Again, it is the mantra that is driven into your head when you take the classes, and when you apply practice to that theory.

Remember, too, that juries that decide your guilt in such matters are human, too, so if you are articulate and honest enough to explain that in a logical way to them, your chances of being found not guilty are more than good. Believe it or not, there are situations where people ARE justified in protecting themselves, even if YOU don't like the fact that they can do so. The majority has spoken, and I make no apologies for those that think their minority opinion trumps those in the majority.

I will say this, though. The recent spate of gun crimes is being committed by those who are illegally in possession of weapons, not those who have been through training of any sort. I have had a CCW for over twenty five years, and have only cleared leather with my weapon on less than a dozen occassions, fearing DIRECTLY for my life, or the lives of those that I am with. Even though I have carried many different places throughout the SE Michigan region, I have managed to restrain myself, even in moments of extreme emotional turmoil, to those specific instances, as most other situations can be avoided by rational, methodical application of logic, not emotion.

Hope I was a bit more clear this time around.

Res

**bailey** · August-10-10, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by PlymouthRes

The law clearly states that you have a right to defend yourself if you feel that your life is being threatened. It is one of the first things you are taught in CCW classes, and, I believe it is a right granted to you in the Constitution. Those are also the "magic words" to deter your arrest after having shot someone in self defence. Again, it is the mantra that is driven into your head when you take the classes, and when you apply practice to that theory.

Remember, too, that juries that decide your guilt in such matters are human, too, so if you are articulate and honest enough to explain that in a logical way to them, your chances of being found not guilty are more than good. Believe it or not, there are situations where people ARE justified in protecting themselves, even if YOU don't like the fact that they can do so. The majority has spoken, and I make no apologies for those that think their minority opinion trumps those in the majority.

I will say this, though. The recent spate of gun crimes is being committed by those who are illegally in possession of weapons, not those who have been through training of any sort. I have had a CCW for over twenty five years, and have only cleared leather with my weapon on less than a dozen occassions, fearing DIRECTLY for my life, or the lives of those that I am with. Even though I have carried many different places throughout the SE Michigan region, I have managed to restrain myself, even in moments of extreme emotional turmoil, to those specific instances, as most other situations can be avoided by rational, methodical application of logic, not emotion.

Hope I was a bit more clear this time around.

Res

I'm curious about where you or your family spends its time that you've "cleared leather" more times in 20 years than a lot of cops do.

Seriously, if you feel you need to be armed to go somewhere, perhaps its a place worth avoiding?

**PlymouthRes** · August-10-10, 09:50 AM

pfft-

Your post in regard to Arts, Beats and Eats takes it to the extreme a bit, doesn't it? Can you provide us with any examples to back your theory, or is that simply a flippant way of retorting without some facts? I have never even remotely heard of the scenario you are suggesting occuring over such a trival matter as being jostled by someone in a crowd.

Tha being said, I have to wonder if their desire to carry so blatantly in such a non-threating environment as A,B & E is a wise move on the gun right advocates part. I'm also wondring if they are grandstanding an issue in a place where things could go so horribly wrong. My main concern is for the innocents that would be harmed should the bad guys decide to make a point.

Why force an issue so? There are better venues to get your point across other than an event that is almost guaranteed to have more merry makers than thugs.

Hope this makes sense.

Res

**PlymouthRes** · August-10-10, 10:07 AM

bailey-

I travel all over the city and region and volunteer my time in some pretty rough areas of town. The times I've had to draw my weapon mainly consisted of incidents where peolpe that I felt were a threat to me or my family were getting between us as we moved along. It happened three times around the Old Shelighlie [[sp?) bar, cutting through the alley between the parking lot and the bar. It even happened once even at Cobo, as I had sent my family on ahead of me and they were being accosted by a very belligerent and angry person when I approached. He changed his attitude immediately after staring down the barrel of my 10mm and the threat that I percieved was averted.

Also, when we owned a pool business, I was in and around the city a lot with money, which almost always makes you a target in my opinion. I felt that the situation elevated itself to a "black" threat and drawing or just hiking up my shirt [[in some cases) proved enough of a deterrent to assuage the situation.

Lastly, I served as a reserve cop in the 15th for a brief period. Most of the time we were able to avert any armed confrontation, but there were a couple of times that it served as a deterrent enough to stop what was going on. I can honestly say that I am grateful that I never had to shoot when I drew, as most of the time the upper hand was gained by simply implying that the weapon would go off if they continued to escalate the situation.

As far as going to or not going to places in the city that I enjoy, the answer is no, I won't back down. The criminal element, in my opinion, needs to know that they can never ever tell who will be confronting them and whether they have a weapon or not is a strong deterrent to them even acting to begin with. Perhaps if more people understood this, the possibility that people would have bigger and better means to protect themselves would be enough of a deterrent to stop them.

Lord knows that you can not depend on the cops in this city to do that for you, as we have all clearly seen in the recent future and throughout the years. Sometimes we must make tough decisions, I guess, and that includes doing everything to protect yourselves from these ravenous thugs.

Res