Will Detroit benefit under a Republican or Democratic governorship?

**Crumbled_pavement** · July-23-10, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by English

I have indeed voted for Republicans in the past on the local and state level, although it's absolutely none of your business who I vote for. So you can choke on "that chuckle."

I get into this argument all the time. People think you have to absolutely have a donkey OR elephant tattooed on your butt. They don't believe you could support some Democrats and some Republicans while disliking others. People are so stuck in a box they can't see they way out of it. Funniest thing about the ultra-partisans is watching them change their stances to match their party's stances.

lincoln8740 · July-23-10, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by English

I have indeed voted for Republicans in the past on the local and state level, although it's absolutely none of your business who I vote for. So you can choke on "that chuckle."

I gotta ask--please tell us which republicans you voted for

lincoln8740 · July-23-10, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I get into this argument all the time. People think you have to absolutely have a donkey OR elephant tattooed on your butt. They don't believe you could support some Democrats and some Republicans while disliking others. People are so stuck in a box they can't see they way out of it. Funniest thing about the ultra-partisans is watching them change their stances to match their party's stances.

hmmmm a certain segment of our society ALWAYS votes democratic

so when a person who is a part of that segment pretends to be open minded and might vote for a republican--I just had to laugh!!!

**MCP-001** · July-23-10, 05:38 PM

There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the democrat or republican party.

So ultimately, it won't matter.

Now, if people are aware of other candidates for Governor [[Stacey Mathia from the Constitution Party, Ken Proctor from the Libertarians, the Greens will announce in August and no word yet from the Natural Law Party), THAT might tip things.

http://www.politics1.com/mi.htm

People are fed up with not only incumbents, but with "both" political parties.

Contrary to what the MSM spoon feeds people, there are more candidates than just those with a "-d" or "-r" after their names.

**Pam** · July-23-10, 05:54 PM

There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the democrat or republican party

Did you miss the story about Republicans blocking the unemployment extension?

**gnome** · July-23-10, 06:22 PM

yeah, it was right next to the article about writing an iou to our grandchildren, maybe you missed it.

**douglasm** · July-23-10, 06:38 PM

I'm a little bothered by the early comment about William Milliken and Detroit, not because Milliken didn't help the city but because as a Republican, he was a bit of an odd duck. Milliken was one of the last of the centerest Republicans out there and probably wouldn't stand a snowballs chance on a July sidewalk to being elected today.

BUT....I live out of state [[as if you all didn't know that.....are any of the Republican candidates for governor anywhere close to a Milliken style Republican?

**English** · July-23-10, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

hmmmm a certain segment of our society ALWAYS votes democratic

so when a person who is a part of that segment pretends to be open minded and might vote for a republican--I just had to laugh!!!

Stop dog whistling and be specific. Which "segment" are you making broad generalizations about?

**R8RBOB** · July-23-10, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

I'm a little bothered by the early comment about William Milliken and Detroit, not because Milliken didn't help the city but because as a Republican, he was a bit of an odd duck. Milliken was one of the last of the centerest Republicans out there and probably wouldn't stand a snowballs chance on a July sidewalk to being elected today.

BUT....I live out of state [[as if you all didn't know that.....are any of the Republican candidates for governor anywhere close to a Milliken style Republican?

I made the comment about Milliken and I suppose the candidate who reflect a Milliken style Republican would be Rick Snyder, the man he endorsed. I have to admit, Snyder was the one candidate who openly admitted if he was elected he would work to get Detroit back on its feet.

**canuck** · July-23-10, 07:07 PM

My favorite reason for any status quo problem to remain unsolved is the MONEY issue. Ever wonder how a great city like Detroit got to be a powerhouse in the old days and how much investment was made through the years to provide amenities. What makes people in Europe and North America feel like they cant afford infrastructures anymore maybe has to do with being overburdened by investments in unsustainability. So many acres of wasted space on agricultural lots. ugliness, disposable architecture, zoning exceptions granted via brown envelopes, etc...

lincoln8740 · July-23-10, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by English

I have indeed voted for Republicans in the past on the local and state level, although it's absolutely none of your business who I vote for. So you can choke on "that chuckle."

This is great

You start by saying who you may vote for and when asked which republicans you voted for in the past you state its no ones business!

Fantastic! Way to dodge the question

So I will ask it again

Which republicans have you voted for in the past?

Me thinks someone just got painted into a corner

Just admit that you will NEVER vote for a republican in the future and you have NEVER voted for a republican in the past

It's fine I will never vote for a democrat nor have I have ever voted for a democrat in the past

But the difference is that I am not lying to myself nor others by claiming to be "independent" or "open minded"

**English** · July-23-10, 08:11 PM

I've posted here on DYes about a couple of the Republican candidates I've voted for in the past when it was germane to the discussion. The majority of my associates from high school and undergrad were Republicans until recently. I converted as a teen in a church with a notable Detroit area pastor who is a die-hard member of the GOP... and former politician. Many of my friends voted GOP until the party went off the deep end, and some still can't bring themselves to vote for a liberal. I became more liberal only in my mid-20s when I started teaching at Cass Tech and as I began to question the reasons I was taught that Republican = Christian. Now I am definitely center left, but that was not always the case.

My folks went back and forth between the Dems and the Repubs until the insanity took hold in recent years. Milliken and old man Romney could not be elected dogcatcher in the Republican party today. Neither would Presidents Eisenhower or Nixon for that matter. Rick Snyder was endorsed by Milliken recently, lives in the same town that I do, is a self-proclaimed "nerd", and actually has a vision for the state:
http://www.rickformichigan.com/visio.../10-point-plan
He is attractive to many in my demographic... upwardly mobile, educated Gen-X and Millennial voters who are fed up with both parties, and are looking for politicians who aren't pandering to the far right or the far left, but willing to move beyond this 1960s era cultural war BS to find 21st century solutions for the problems that we face. I am looking for similar rhetoric from the Dem side and am not finding anything laid out so clearly.

You didn't answer my question about your dog whistling, by the way. Which "segment" were you talking about?

lincoln8740 · July-23-10, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by English

I've posted here on DYes about a couple of the Republican candidates I've voted for in the past when it was germane to the discussion. The majority of my associates from high school and undergrad were Republicans until recently. I converted as a teen in a church with a notable Detroit area pastor who is a die-hard member of the GOP... and former politician. Many of my friends voted GOP until the party went off the deep end, and some still can't bring themselves to vote for a liberal. I became more liberal only in my mid-20s when I started teaching at Cass Tech and as I began to question the reasons I was taught that Republican = Christian. Now I am definitely center left, but that was not always the case.

My folks went back and forth between the Dems and the Repubs until the insanity took hold in recent years. Milliken and old man Romney could not be elected dogcatcher in the Republican party today. Neither would Presidents Eisenhower or Nixon for that matter. Rick Snyder was endorsed by Milliken recently, lives in the same town that I do, is a self-proclaimed "nerd", and actually has a vision for the state:
http://www.rickformichigan.com/visio.../10-point-plan
He is attractive to many in my demographic... upwardly mobile, educated Gen-X and Millennial voters who are fed up with both parties, and are looking for politicians who aren't pandering to the far right or the far left, but willing to move beyond this 1960s era cultural war BS to find 21st century solutions for the problems that we face. I am looking for similar rhetoric from the Dem side and am not finding anything laid out so clearly.

You didn't answer my question about your dog whistling, by the way. Which "segment" were you talking about?

Oh my god I have never seen anybody dodge a basic simple question

Fine don't answer a simple question

Shit it would take what three lines?

I think I will call that the english two step

A name-- any names

At this point you could even lie and it would be fine

**English** · July-23-10, 08:32 PM

^ Wow. Just... wow.

**BagAJellyDonuts** · July-23-10, 08:39 PM

I'm impressed with the "party doesn't make a difference" responses.

IMO, I agree.

I am also of the opinion that neither party works for the voters but for their own party. And we wonder why things are a mess.

**English** · July-23-10, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I made the comment about Milliken and I suppose the candidate who reflect a Milliken style Republican would be Rick Snyder, the man he endorsed. I have to admit, Snyder was the one candidate who openly admitted if he was elected he would work to get Detroit back on its feet.

Yep. His strategy is to capture the moderate Republican base and disaffected Dems and independents in the primary, while the conservatives/Tea Partiers split the base:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...reinvent--Mich

If you read his policy statements, strong central cities, an end to sprawl, and protection of our wildlife and natural resources are part of the cornerstones of his campaign pitch. He's actually lived in several Michigan cities, including Battle Creek, Detroit, and Ann Arbor. He's coming from the tech and venture capital world, so his perspective is different.

lincoln8740 · July-23-10, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by English

^ Wow. Just... wow.

Stil no name
That's a big WOW

And by the way I have never heard anyone describe themselves as "upwardly mobile"

I got a chuckle from your first post but that caused a belly laugh!

Thanks

**Jimaz** · July-23-10, 10:01 PM

Angry and smug are each ends of an imprisoningly singularly-dimensional perspective. Most others have a far more broad perspective.

Dunning-Kruger Effect

**Focus313** · July-23-10, 10:11 PM

I have an awful feeling a Republican Gov would simply let Detroit slide off the map into the Detroit river. Its no secret they hate Detroit and all the liberals living here. We'll be quickly chastised for our... ummm, sins?

**English** · July-23-10, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

Thanks

You're more than welcome. Happy to be of service.

**fryar** · July-23-10, 11:48 PM

Jimaz, thank you for your enlightening link.

**Crumbled_pavement** · July-24-10, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

hmmmm a certain segment of our society ALWAYS votes democratic

so when a person who is a part of that segment pretends to be open minded and might vote for a republican--I just had to laugh!!!

Yes, most black people do vote for Democrats. Even with that you can't say all blacks vote Democrats. I have less of a problem convincing someone that I'd vote for a Republican than I have convincing someone I'm centrist. People think you have to have your head up the ass of one party or the other. How about both parties have some good ideas and both parties have some screwed up ideas? Oh, but you already confessed to being heavily partisan and can only see the Republican side of the argument.

Originally Posted by BagAJellyDonuts

I'm impressed with the "party doesn't make a difference" responses.

IMO, I agree.

I am also of the opinion that neither party works for the voters but for their own party. And we wonder why things are a mess.

Also things are messed by the people who think things have to be all the way to the left or all the way to the right. If we live in a democracy and most voters are evenly split between left and right, wouldn't it make sense to have centrist leadership? Bush and an all Republican congress and senate were a disaster just like Obama and an all Democrat congress and senate are a disaster. How about checks and balances? I'm so tired of the new breed of ultra-partisans that can't bend an inch to see the other side's arguments, and most Americans are getting fed up too. Hence the low approval ratings both Republicans and Democrats are receiving!

lincoln8740 · July-24-10, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Yes, most black people do vote for Democrats. Even with that you can't say all blacks vote Democrats.

you are absolutley right

the messiah poll numbers have dipped to below 50%

but yet a certain segment of the population has an approval rating of 94%

hmmmmm

even jimmy carter did not get those numbers
so why would the messiah get them?

**Crumbled_pavement** · July-24-10, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by lincoln8740

you are absolutley right

the messiah poll numbers have dipped to below 50%

but yet a certain segment of the population has an approval rating of 94%

hmmmmm

even jimmy carter did not get those numbers
so why would the messiah get them?

Who is this certain segment? Come out and say what you have to say. Partisans exist on both sides of the aisle and they both impede progress.

**fryar** · July-24-10, 03:45 AM

I do my best to disregard the parties entirely. The bipartisan framework is the prism through which everything political is represented in the media, on the net, etc, so it is impossible to fully escape it, unfortunately.