LIGHT RAIL UPDATE: Ray LaHood to announce federal commitment

[BrushStart]

Is it just me, or is that sum a little low? I'm hoping for a federal commitment for the whole DTOGS project out to 8 Mile, not just the starter leg. I guess we'll see.

I thought the same thing.

[casscorridor]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=164301&page=4

In the middle of the page above, there are a few somewhat recent renderings.

Call me sour, but I have to be honest here... this is such short-sighted design. Ugly pole after ugly pole sticking out from both sides of the street, rather than a simple wire with limited poles. The mingling with traffic... probably the idea here is that "oh, we can't take any room away from cars!!!" because pedestrians would be more likely to reclaim Woodward if the rail was in the center of the street [[not to mention, that it would be easier to cross!). The stations also take up room on the sidewalks, which are already very narrow, and honestly these stations don't look much better than the fancy modern bus shelters I see in other cities. But the worst thing about these rederings is how it shows Orchestra Hall with its own station... two blocks up from a station at Mack. Does there need to be stations so close together? There isn't even a bus connection, so it is a pretty poor location choice. The plan seems like a minimal improvement over the bus, a mostly asthetic improvement, hens so much emphasis on "LED" lighting displays. Over all the plan seems pretty haphazardly put together, and it saddens me that the DTOGS years of work seems to be just thrown own for this ill-thought plan. If this is indeed what is built, then I have a bad feeling about the future of transit in our region.

[ct_alum]

In an Detroit News column today about the Kresge Foundation, Rip Rapson mentions this piece of upcoming good news:

"An appearance here by the U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood next Monday awarding a $25 million federal grant to spur development of a largely privately funded light rail line from the Riverfront to the New Center."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100729/...#ixzz0v5wskewl

Is it just me, or is that sum a little low? I'm hoping for a federal commitment for the whole DTOGS project out to 8 Mile, not just the starter leg. I guess we'll see.

$25 million won't even cover Bobby Ferguson's "cut".

[jt1]

Given that we are 10 years into a state recessesion and still a donor state, "giving" us 25MM and having an event to announce it is pretty f'in insulting.

They are giving us a pittance of a return on the money that we still donate to other 'poor' states.

[ghettopalmetto]

Given that we are 10 years into a state recessesion and still a donor state, "giving" us 25MM and having an event to announce it is pretty f'in insulting.

They are giving us a pittance of a return on the money that we still donate to other 'poor' states.

Oh, and please remind us how much money the State of Michigan, Wayne County, and the City of Detroit have committed to this project??? Oh, that's right: NONE.

Other cities and states usually have to pony up a buttload of cash to get federal money for transit projects. Y'all get an outright gift, and you're going to piss and moan that you weren't handed more. Cry me a river.

The reason that Michigan "donates" transportation dollars to other states is because the other states are busy building light rail, commuter, and intercity trains all over the place, while Lansing is committed to ideologies espoused in educational films of the 1950s.

[jt1]

Oh, and please remind us how much money the State of Michigan, Wayne County, and the City of Detroit have committed to this project??? Oh, that's right: NONE.

Other cities and states usually have to pony up a buttload of cash to get federal money for transit projects. Y'all get an outright gift, and you're going to piss and moan that you weren't handed more. Cry me a river.

My point was more to state that we shouldn't be kissing the feds ass for giving us $25MM [[which is to an extent matching private sources). The simple fact is that the state of Michigan is still a huge donor state and all citizens in this state should be angry that we [[as a state) are and have been donating an obscene amount of money to other states.

Sorry if I don't want to kiss the gov't ass over a 'gift' when they are still steaking from the state of Michigan.

One of those larger picture things - I figured you would get it.

[ghettopalmetto]

It's $25 million the project didn't previously have.

You want to find a bogeyman in all this? Look at your own elected leaders within the State of Michigan. The Feds at least gave cash to the project. What has Lansing or Detroit done? Bitch to MDOT, not Ray LaHood.

[jt1]

Oh, and please remind us how much money the State of Michigan, Wayne County, and the City of Detroit have committed to this project??? Oh, that's right: NONE.

Other cities and states usually have to pony up a buttload of cash to get federal money for transit projects. Y'all get an outright gift, and you're going to piss and moan that you weren't handed more. Cry me a river.

The reason that Michigan "donates" transportation dollars to other states is because the other states are busy building light rail, commuter, and intercity trains all over the place, while Lansing is committed to ideologies espoused in educational films of the 1950s.

Michigan is a donor state for all monies sent to Washington, not just transportation. We have done ourselves no favors with transportation but I am speaking of dollars sent to Washington and dollars returned. We have given billions more to Washington over the years which was re-distributed to other states. It is beyond transportation.

[jt1]

It's $25 million the project didn't previously have.

You want to find a bogeyman in all this? Look at your own elected leaders within the State of Michigan. The Feds at least gave cash to the project. What has Lansing or Detroit done? Bitch to MDOT, not Ray LaHood.

You're still missing the point. I am using the celebration of receiving 25MM [[which is great) to point out that there is a much bigger issue. That issue is that the same states [[Michigan being one of them) is getting a raw deal in how Washington works.

[esp1986]

Given that we are 10 years into a state recessesion and still a donor state, "giving" us 25MM and having an event to announce it is pretty f'in insulting.

They are giving us a pittance of a return on the money that we still donate to other 'poor' states.

Relax people... I am pretty sure that was a typo... the word for the past two weeks has been $225M... it is entirely possible that a '2' was left out, there is not much that can be done with just $25 million.

[ghettopalmetto]

You're still missing the point. I am using the celebration of receiving 25MM [[which is great) to point out that there is a much bigger issue. That issue is that the same states [[Michigan being one of them) is getting a raw deal in how Washington works.

Here's dumb question:

If every state were to get EXACTLY as much money in federal allocations as they paid in federal taxes...

...WHY HAVE A FEDERAL FUCKING GOVERNMENT??? It could be 1788 all over again!!!

The fact that Michigan is a "donor" state means that Michigan is still one of the wealthier states. Would you rather live in a state that receives $1.36 in federal money for each $1 its citizens pay in federal taxes, yet everyone in that state rails against "welfare" and "handouts" and tells "Washington to keep its nose out" of the state's business?

[jt1]

The fact that Michigan is a "donor" state means that Michigan is still one of the wealthier states.?

Do you know how the amount returned to a state is calculated?

Would you rather live in a state that receives $1.36 in federal money for each $1 its citizens pay in federal taxes, yet everyone in that state rails against "welfare" and "handouts" and tells "Washington to keep its nose out" of the state's business?

Not sure I follow your quote. Are you saying that any state that gets more than $1 back is "anti welfare" and "handouts"?

So if I understand your stance we should be happy that we receive less return on our tax dollar than other states because Michigan is 'wealthy'. Last I checked things have changed in this state over the last ten years and we are still a donor state. Why should we have been severely penalized for being a wealthy state but now that we are quickly becoming a poor state we get no relief from the government.

As for your first statement of expecting $1 back we can also look at our ranking compared to other states. Between 1981 and 1999 we ranked between 42 and 48 every year. So there were 1 minimum of 41 states that got a better deal ffrom the government. IN the years of 2000- 2005 we were 40, 37, 38 38, 38, 37.

I don;t know how anyone could support this type of arrangement. Now that this state is dropping towards the bottom of the ranks in many QOL issues I would expect that we would start getting a little more help. Instead we are still a donor state.

[jt1]

Relax people... I am pretty sure that was a typo... the word for the past two weeks has been $225M... it is entirely possible that a '2' was left out, there is not much that can be done with just $25 million.

$225 MM would certainly paint a different picture.

[DetroitPlanner]

The $25 Million is a grant from TIGER. TIGER is funded through ARRA, the recovery program. It requires no match. It is not included in the 'Donor State" because TIGER is not funded though the Gas Tax. Page 23

[Alex Martin]

The rest of the project will be privately funded. So if you can track down Mr. Privately you can ask him why it don't go farther.

[BShea]

There's a LOT more to this story. Stay turned.

[BShea]

As I said, there was a lot more to this story ...

Light rail gets Obama push

Next stop: Environmental impact statement

By Bill Shea

The up to $500 million public-private effort to build a light-rail loop on Detroit's Woodward Avenue has gained initial support from the Obama administration and soon will begin the environmental impact study process that could qualify it for up to 80 percent federal funding, organizers say.

The system that would run from Hart Plaza to the city limits at Eight Mile Road is expected to be operating by 2016, said Bob Berg, partner and vice president at Detroit-based Berg Muirhead and Associates, which does media relations work for the city.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is scheduled to announce today that the project is beginning the 12- to 18-month process of putting together the environmental impact statement. His department oversees the process and will determine if the project will be awarded funding.

“As long as you follow the [[environmental) process, you end up with a light-rail system,” Berg said. “It's a major step forward. They're saying the federal government is supportive of this process. The thought is you can get a shovel in the ground by next year.”

LaHood also is expected to say that a $25 million federal Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery grant awarded to the Michigan Department of Transportation in February for the rail project will be transferred to the Detroit Department of Transportation.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/308019981

And my blog take on these developments: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/shea

[BrushStart]

2016!!!!????? WTF is going to take them 5.5 years to get this thing running? Chicago is planning a new subway/elevated rail line that I'm sure will go more than 3.4 miles and I bet people will be riding it in < 12 months. What takes so long to build a damn trolley car? In 6 years this "LIGHT RAIL UPDATE" thread will be 80 pages long and we still won't have a measley trolley that runs down Woodward. Ray LaHood needs to come here on Monday with a shovel and start digging. He could finish it himself before 2016. I hate waiting because for all we know, something like another economic bubble will burst, and then the whole project will go down the toilet. The city needs transit NOW.

Environmental Impact Study???? Let me help them out......... IT'S LESS IMPACT than 10,000 CARS carrying 1 passenger each down Woodward everyday. If they really want to save the environment, give us the money to build 34 miles of track, not 3.4. I want MASS transit that covers the metro operational by 2012. There's no excuse for this nonsense.

[Tig3rzhark]

2016!!!!????? WTF is going to take them 5.5 years to get this thing running? Chicago is planning a new subway/elevated rail line that I'm sure will go more than 3.4 miles and I bet people will be riding it in < 12 months. What takes so long to build a damn trolley car? In 6 years this "LIGHT RAIL UPDATE" thread will be 80 pages long and we still won't have a measley trolley that runs down Woodward. Ray LaHood needs to come here on Monday with a shovel and start digging. He could finish it himself before 2016. I hate waiting because for all we know, something like another economic bubble will burst, and then the whole project will go down the toilet. The city needs transit NOW.

Environmental Impact Study???? Let me help them out......... IT'S LESS IMPACT than 10,000 CARS carrying 1 passenger each down Woodward everyday. If they really want to save the environment, give us the money to build 34 miles of track, not 3.4. I want MASS transit that covers the metro operational by 2012. There's no excuse for this nonsense.

I agree with that. Start on the improvements NOW, or watch as another young, Detroit, Michigander hop on a one way flight to a city that has the Mass Transit that we so desperately need!

[BShea]

The environmental study is a federal requirement. It takes a year to 18 months, typically. No way of getting around that if you want federal money ... and Detroit has no way to pay for this w/o federal cash.

This is how the game is played.

[BrushStart]

The environmental study is a federal requirement. It takes a year to 18 months, typically. No way of getting around that if you want federal money ... and Detroit has no way to pay for this w/o federal cash.

This is how the game is played.

I agree about needing federal funding, but do other cities go through this hoopla? I have never heard of anything taking so long. The Hoover Dam was built in less than 6 years and it is one the man-made wonders of the world. Does it take this long when Michigan applies for federal highway funding to expand I-75? I doubt it. Whatever studies they are going to conduct, I can't imagine it should take 12-18 months. That is ridiculous for a miniature transit project of this size. It's not like a light rail line has never been built and they don't know what the effects are going to be. Other cities have been building these exact same lines [[and many more complex ones) for decades- it's a train for pete's sake, not a teleporter.

[professorscott]

Does it take this long when Michigan applies for federal highway funding to expand I-75? I doubt it. Whatever studies they are going to conduct, I can't imagine it should take 12-18 months. That is ridiculous for a miniature transit project of this size. It's not like a light rail line has never been built and they don't know what the effects are going to be. Other cities have been building these exact same lines [[and many more complex ones) for decades- it's a train for pete's sake, not a teleporter.

When they are built with Uncle Sugar's money, be it transit or highways, they all go through the same process. If you follow [[for example) the major widening of M-59 in Macomb County in the 1990s, and look at the timeline, it took a very great many years from conception to finishing up construction.

The length or style of the transportation project is irrelevant. If you're building or expanding [[as opposed to just reconstructing), you have to go through this, and it takes as long as it takes. The other cities that built "these exact same lines" went through the same thing - they just went through it in the past, while we were sitting around with our heads up our asses.

[BrushStart]

When they are built with Uncle Sugar's money, be it transit or highways, they all go through the same process. If you follow [[for example) the major widening of M-59 in Macomb County in the 1990s, and look at the timeline, it took a very great many years from conception to finishing up construction.

The length or style of the transportation project is irrelevant. If you're building or expanding [[as opposed to just reconstructing), you have to go through this, and it takes as long as it takes. The other cities that built "these exact same lines" went through the same thing - they just went through it in the past, while we were sitting around with our heads up our asses.

If that's true, then what's fair is fair. That said, if six years from now there's still no train, and the latest from the M1 camp is something like "Light Rail to be Operational in 2020", I'm going to get lost. The metro area has needed comprehensive transit for the last 50 years, and needs it today more than ever while there is some momentum. Things like this can't get delayed indefinitely without losing people's interest and opportunities.

BTW, professorscott, are you by chance "TheProf" on city-data?

[professorscott]

I agree. With regard to the other thing, I've never been to city-data, so I'm not TheProf over there. What is that site?

[BrushStart]

I agree. With regard to the other thing, I've never been to city-data, so I'm not TheProf over there. What is that site?

The site is http://www.city-data.com/ and the Detroit forum is http://www.city-data.com/forum/detroit.

I post frequenty on city-data, mainly because the information disseminated there is poor in quality and often very anti-Detroit. The site has a lot of visitors and is a resource for people considering moving to the Detroit region. The information on DY is superior to C-D, but if you have an interest in spreading positive information about Detroit, quality posters are definitely needed.