"Moonlight Tower" Carbon-arc Lamps

[EastsideAl]

No. 20 [[unless I lost count): Another one on Woodward http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...d=EB02F113.TIF
21. Another Woodward: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...d=EB02F111.TIF

# 20 was at Woodward and Willis, as confirmed by the street sign on the corner of the chocolate store.

#21 appears to be at Woodward and Palmer from the address on the drug store.

The one that has me stumped for the moment is #10. There's a street sign on the tree at the corner, but I can't read it.

[EastsideAl]

Also, I seriously doubt that #11 is Rivard and Jefferson.

The street going from left to right across the photo is definitely Rivard, as evidenced by the street sign hung over the door on the building. But the portion of Jefferson near Rivard was lined with opulent houses in this era, not the kind of industrial area seen in that photo.

Also there's the little matter of the railroad tracks that cross Rivard on the far right. There's really only a couple of places where that happens, just north of Atwater and just north of Milwaukee. My money is on this being a picture of Rivard and Milwaukee, based on the railroad, the lumber yard in the background [[a larger lumber yard shows at that corner in the 1897 Sanborn), and the factory in the further background. A light tower at that corner [[which is no more - torn out for the Chrysler Fwy.) would have served to light up a large portion of the tracks around the Milwaukee Junction area.

[EastsideAl]

Bing map seems to work fine here.

Another 'two-fer' in front of Cass Methodist Church at Cass and Selden.

[JStone]

Trumbull

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...d=EB02E823.TIF

[EastsideAl]

OK, I was wrong above about the location of the Rivard tower #11. The address of the store shown in this photo, which seems to be of the opposite side of the same intersection [[tower stands on SE corner), has convinced me that the location is actually Rivard and Franklin.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02D317.TIF

[Retroit]

Trumbull

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...d=EB02E823.TIF

Nice find. That church was located at Trumbull and Church St, as confirmed by Silas Farmer's History of... http://books.google.com/books?id=_Od...umbull&f=false pages 584-5. This is probably the tower off in the far distance [[second from right) in the Shorpy photo http://www.shorpy.com/node/7658?size=_original . [[And not a bad guess on my part, I might humbly add. )

[Retroit]

Awesome work, EastsideAl! I'm making corrections & additions to the map as we go [[so far 23 locations).

You say the Bing map is working. Are you able to see the markers that I am putting at the Moontower locations? When I try to access it, it says "Just one moment" and stays that way indefinitely.

Update with photos attached: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...hr8lxxkl460dtm

[EastsideAl]

Awesome work, EastsideAl! I'm making corrections & additions to the map as we go [[so far 23 locations).

You say the Bing map is working. Are you able to see the markers that I am putting at the Moontower locations? When I try to access it, it says "Just one moment" and stays that way indefinitely.

http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...o1rmd79nfjwwvy

Seems to load fine here. Markers are clearly visible.

[EastsideAl]

Leaving on my way up north for the rest of the weekend now. But can anyone who knows something about old Detroit fire stations perhaps tell us something about the picture linked below? I think the light tower in the foreground might be on Dix [[today's W. Vernor), but don't know for sure. Perhaps this is the one at Dix and Vinewood mentioned above?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...%5DDPA2335.TIF

[Retroit]

What in particular are you interested in knowing about it?

besides this: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...378#post152378

[mpls.ryan]

The lighting from these towers was very harsh, casting long shadows all night long. A wonderous technological feat, but practically speaking, silly. I just read about the carbon versus incandescent battles in 'The Wizard of Menlo Park'. It mentions the City of Detroit's installation specifically.

Another note, a Detroit-->Austin light tower is featured prominantly in the movie 'Dazed and Confused' during the kegger on the hill scene. Silly stoner jungle gym.

[Whitehouse]

***TEST***

Here is a link to the locations on Bing Maps: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...7h3c9qgs33z5vz

Can someone tell me if this is working?

A map with stars on it. If that was the intention, you succeeded.

[Brock7]

Are you able to see the markers that I am putting at the Moontower locations? When I try to access it, it says "Just one moment" and stays that way indefinitely.

Update with photos attached: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...hr8lxxkl460dtm

I'm on dial-up. All of the map and markers take about 10 minutes to load up the first time and I only get one or two of the thumbnails on the list to the left on the first try - that's not unusual with dial-up, they'd probably all show up if I refreshed a few times. When I click a location on the list the photo displays, given time.

The only problem I see is that though the marker for Rivard and Franklin is in the right spot, it says Rivard and Hastings.

[Retroit]

Thanks Brock7, I've corrected it. http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...r6rnxn7b728bbt I'm sure there are many more mistakes yet to be found.

I've found some info on #10. According to Silas Farmer's History of...[[ http://books.google.com/books?id=_Od...=homes&f=false ), the house on the corner belonged to F. W. Hayes and was built in 1870. But here's the tricky part. The address is listed as 608 Woodward, which if you do a Bing Map search, put it at Woodward and Congress, too far south. Now, I know the address system changed over the years and I know there have been discussions about it on DetroitYES!, but I don't recall how to convert from one system to another.

[Retroit]

I found this post from Kathleen:

"Yesterday I was doing research on a house on Cass on the WSU campus. In 1914, it was numbered 1019. Today its address is 5229 Cass.

And during past research on the Cultural Center area to determine how many houses were razed from the block that now is home to the main Detroit Public Library, I was jotting down names and addresses along Cass and Woodward from Warren up to Ferry Street and on the cross-streets. From my notes, I see that the Frank Hecker House which is at the corner of Woodward and Ferry was originally numbered as 1170 Woodward. Today it is 5510 Woodward. "

...from this thread: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ress+numbering

So the conversion would be to add 4210 to 4340 to get from old to new. That would yield 4818 or 4948. Plugging these into Bing Maps, they are both between Hancock St. and Warren Ave., so the street sign would/should say Hancock. [[But does it?)

[Brock7]

Did you find picture of the house in the Silas Farmer book? It would take to long to search it myself.

According to the 1895 directory I have, 608 Woodward was on the NE corner of Woodward and Eliot. Here's who's listed on that side of the block:
608 Robert H. Traver
620 J. H. Carstens M.D.
624 Maxwell M. Fisher
630 James C. McGregor

1875 directory: Hayes Fred W, asst cashier Merchants' and Mnfrs Bank, h 608 Woodward ave.

My best guesses for what the sign says that are real street names were High St. or Forest, but Eliot seems just as good a guess.It's kind of psychedelic looking, but now if I read it as black lettering on white, I can see ELLIOT E - it's spelled with two "L"s on the 1893 map I linked to in an earlier post.
Attachment 6905
Attachment 6906

[Brock7]

This is another shot of the tower on the NW corner of Gratiot and Miami[[Broadway). It shows a man in the tower cage working. It dates from before the Cary Bldg. was erected on that corner. The barber and hairdresser are listed in the 1895 directory, but I couldn't find anything for Marble Hall. The street car tracks are laid differently too.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02C340.TIF

[EastsideAl]

Handily, the early 1920s Sanborns for Detroit show both the old and new addresses. By that time the house on that corner was gone, replaced by a Chinese restaurant, but the old number 608 is indeed closest to Eliot [[new number was 3508).

This location is further confirmed via reference to Retroit's listing of the 1895 residents of the block of Woodward north of Eliot. Below is a picture of what is identified as the Maxwell Fisher residence, which indeed looks just like the third house off the corner shown in the #10 photo, and shows in the Sanborn as old address 624 Woodward.

[Brock7]

No.24 Woodward and Sibley. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...%5DDPA1957.TIF
This one is on the east-side of Woodward, north of the Woodward Baptist Church at Winder Street, nearly right across from Sibley - A. L. Walker Drugs at 411 is the third address before Sibley on the west-side of Woodward.

This is another shot of the same tower.
http://www.merit.edu/~jimmoran/detphot/snwcar.jpg

The tower past the steeple of the Woodward Baptist Church is St. John's Protestant Episcopal Church at High Street.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02E605.TIF
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02C456.TIF

The other steeple in the far distance in the first photo is that of Central Methodist Episcopal Church at Adams which also has a carbon-arc tower[[no. 3) across from it on the west-side of Woodward.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02D599.TIF

This photo looking North up Woodard from Grand River shows both of these light towers in the distance. The tower of St. John's and the steeple of Woodward Baptist align so that they appear to be one structure.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02C308.TIF

This shot looking north from Grand River shows both the towers on John R and at Sibley, the tower at Adams is hidden by the YMCA lamp post.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...5DEB02D596.TIF

Here's the tower at Woodward and John R again at a later date after Schwankovsky's Music House was built.
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...%5DDPA4585.TIF

[MikeM]

When I first saw #10 I also thought it was Eliot. Al's research confirms it. I have a 1921 directory with the old/new address conversions by street corner and the southeast corner of Woodward/Eliot was 602/3500.

I've been looking at this 1885 atlas:

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...29071.0001.001

wondering if the towers were marked in any way. There are two symbols throughout the area: a circle with a solid dot in the middle, and a circle with a dot in a crosshair. There is no legend, but the map shows what appear to be water mains in the city streets including their diameter. The symbols could be water cisterns or fire hydrants but I see some symbols in the same locations as the towers. The atlas also shows the shape of houses but the house pictured on the corner of Eliot doen't match the floor plan in the atlas.

[Retroit]

You guys amaze me. Eliot it is. http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?or...589pwzxprmxnz5

I'm quite tempted to start marking and posting each and every one of those photos on the Bing Map. It would be quite an undertaking [[but also quite fun).

That atlas is a treasure trove, MikeM. I'm not sure what to make of the symbols, maybe sewer grates and manhole covers? If they are moonlight towers, some are conspicuously missing, like the one in front of city hall. We'll figure it out. Does the pink and yellow building colorings differentiate brick/masonry and wood?

[MikeM]

That atlas is a treasure trove, MikeM. I'm not sure what to make of the symbols, maybe sewer grates and manhole covers? If they are moonlight towers, some are conspicuously missing, like the one in front of city hall. We'll figure it out. Does the pink and yellow building colorings differentiate brick/masonry and wood?

I haven't paid attention to the color; I'm looking at the .pdf version of the plates. The year is 1885 and arc lighting had only been in use a year or two. I'm sure a lot of the towers visible in these pictures were not yet erected. I'd be surprised if that many towers had been built by the time this atlas was printed. I see old gas lamps in some of the spots marked by these symbols, so that's another possibilty.

[MikeM]

Another view of #7 at Jefferson & Woodward?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...art=;resnum=18

[MikeM]

Another view of #12, Griswold & Larned?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...art=;resnum=18

[Brock7]

No.s 25 & 26?
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/imag...%5DDPA4149.TIF

There are four towers visible in this 1905 view down Michigan Avenue from the Wayne County Building. I think two of them would be new to the list. There's a tower on the north-side Michigan looks like at Shelby, but the lamps are missing. The other new tower is also on the north-side of Michigan, I'm guessing at 5th street.