Can the US thrive without manufacturing?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "it does work that way unless you are talking about natural supply/demand curves, which haven't existed in the modern era, and couldn't exist in the modern era. there are plenty of examples from the robber barons to the coal mining "company towns" to the drug cartels in S. America "

Why did some companies like Ford pay such high wages when there was no union and they really didn't have to?

[jams]

Quote: "it does work that way unless you are talking about natural supply/demand curves, which haven't existed in the modern era, and couldn't exist in the modern era. there are plenty of examples from the robber barons to the coal mining "company towns" to the drug cartels in S. America "

Why did some companies like Ford pay such high wages when there was no union and they really didn't have to?

Yet, they did unionize.

[Lorax]

In a word, no.

In fact, a stronger manufacturing base as well as a return to a tariff based economy, which the rest of the industrialized world engages in, however, with repugnican leadership since Reagan, we have eliminated most tariffs on imported goods.

Sorry to those who think it's a "protectionist" move, but a fair trade economy in the truest sense of the word will only benefit us.

Stopping US firms from evading taxes by setting up off-shore corporations is also needed. Obama seems to be getting this right.

No more legacy wealth with a mandatory 90% tax rate on income over a certain dollar amount [[about 5 million) it was only 2 million in the 50's. Any repugnican who expouses unfettered wealth, with billionaires running around creating corporations "too big to fail" should be made a criminal act.

No corporation should be in the position to bring down the nation's or indeed the world's economy, as it was perceived would happen if AIG or other large banks and multi-national corporations were allowed to fail.

Even now, banks are carping that they don't want government regulations on executive pay, even when they are taking TARP monies. Too damn bad. Pay back the loans, and then you can feel free to overpay your fiscally retarded CEO's.

[rb336]

Quote: "it does work that way unless you are talking about natural supply/demand curves, which haven't existed in the modern era, and couldn't exist in the modern era. there are plenty of examples from the robber barons to the coal mining "company towns" to the drug cartels in S. America "

Why did some companies like Ford pay such high wages when there was no union and they really didn't have to?

Simple -- higher pay manufactured demand, and Ford new it would. Unfortunately, many of these Randians leave out the "enlightened" part and just go for the cruder form of self interest - short-term, short-sighted greed

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "many of these Randians leave out the "enlightened" part and just go for the cruder form of self interest"

As opposed to an unsustainable socialized system of self- set pay scales.

[firstandten]

In a word, no.

In fact, a stronger manufacturing base as well as a return to a tariff based economy, which the rest of the industrialized world engages in, however, with repugnican leadership since Reagan, we have eliminated most tariffs on imported goods.

Sorry to those who think it's a "protectionist" move, but a fair trade economy in the truest sense of the word will only benefit us. .

Agree, but you can't close the barn door after the horses all got out. This will need to be done strategically or the US will feel the repercussions of a trade war and screwed up foreign relations. I think Obama will attempt to do this on an incremental basis.

[Glowblue]

JohnLodge, when you posed the question about "thriving without manufacturing" were you thinking in terms of manufacturing workers or manufacturing output? The reason I ask is that the number of manufacturing workers has steadily decreased even as the value of our manufacturing output has risen, in real terms.

This parallels what happened with the shift from agricultural jobs to industrial jobs a century or so ago. We produce record amounts of food with fewer and fewer workers. Has it impoverished our country? No. Will a similar shift in industrial jobs have the same result? I think so.

Now, if you were asking about our future if we no longer do any manufacturing then that may be a different matter, but perhaps not. There are countries that prosper yet lack a strong internal sector in commodities, agriculture or industry.

In any case, the common complaint by some that "we don't make anything any more in the US" is so far from being accurate as to be useless as a starting point for discussion.





http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/04/...ith-fewer.html

Interesting stats. In 1972, the mean household income was about $50,000 in current dollars. If wages kept up with productivity growth, then the mean household income today would be $150,000 [[probably more, since more women work outside the home today than in 1972). However, mean household income today isn't even $70,000, and that's with way more two-paycheck households than in the Seventies. Makes you wonder where the fruits of those productivity gains ended up.

[Lorax]

Interesting stats. In 1972, the mean household income was about $50,000 in current dollars. If wages kept up with productivity growth, then the mean household income today would be $150,000 [[probably more, since more women work outside the home today than in 1972). However, mean household income today isn't even $70,000, and that's with way more two-paycheck households than in the Seventies. Makes you wonder where the fruits of those productivity gains ended up.

So true. When people finally wake up and realize that this is nothing more than a planned, systematic dissoultion of the middle class. More and more legacy wealth is concentrated in fewer hands, and this is a prescription for anarchy. That is, unless Americans are content with their standard of living being reduced to some gray area between the rural Chinese and the upwardly mobile Indians.

[ccbatson]

Yes...a good point indeed. Where do you think the income that should be there went to? Look at your tax bill for the answer.