Unemployment Benefits in Michigan will cease.

[ja!mz]

Social reform=communisum

[fryar]

Ah yes, so I read through the entirety of what has become of this thread, and am greeted by the perfect lead-in. Thanks, ja!mz.

Rather than let unemployment benefits expire, the country should institute a modern day version of the depression-era, what was it called, CCC, I think? That outfit that welcomed unemployed people of all stripes, and put them to work doing useful "stuff," like building the Hoover Dam and such. Sort of a right-to-work thing, but not in the union sense. As a modern-day take on that, a less centralized version might provide for a means by which recognized 501[[c)[[3)'s can can certify the contribution made, similar to what is already in place for a tax deduction [[but this is different, of course). If Disney can pull it off, perhaps the government can as well. Just a thought.
The other one is that the tea party has politicians scared to pull the trigger on what would conventionally be the right thing to do in this situation, so don't look for anything remotely like the CCC to actually materialize because - gasp - that would be like socialism, with deficit spending to boot.
Those are my two thoughts, recession-priced at one cent each.

[Zacha341]

Exactly. The con is to promote the idea that one party simply gives stuff and other takes stuff away. Actually, the dems and repubs endorse each other to offset their policies [[allow the other to do the dirty work as need)... while making it look like they are unique or codified to a particular apposing behavior or policy... more shape shifting too come!

Sorry Danny, it is the fault of both parties, no matter what the vote was on any one particular issue. They all have their hands in the coookie jar and are insulated from reality by living in D.C, campaign treasure chests, revolving doors and 'the good ole boy' system.

[Zacha341]

Indeed... as the situation becomes more extreme it will be simply the reasonable option full of promise... and certainly free of the kind of authoritarianism, power consolidation and elitism we now have.

...Americans, you can vote them out and bring in the socialist order in politics. The time is now.

[ja!mz]

Whats that old saying? Socialism is great until you run out of everybody else's money

[Zacha341]

Yep, as the definition and scale of "who is rich", thus deserving to have their earnings distributed slides ever "downward" lower and lower...

While the elite retain their mega millions; assets and status -- set aside so as to not live with[[in) the policies they endorse, enact and enforce.

Whats that old saying? Socialism is great until you run out of everybody else's money

[Gistok]

Social reform=communisum

Well besides that "communisum".... we have all those illegal "fuhriners" to worry about!

And by the way Oladub.... where on earth did you come up with this fuzzy math....

9% Unemployment Rate - 5% Illegal Aliens Unemployed = 4% Actual unemployment rate.

I know you're smarter than that, and didn't just return from Dumbfuckistan to come up with those statistics??

Let me guess.... Beckistan or Rushistan....

Anyone registering for unemployment has to have a Social Security Number and other ID.... so that 9% statistic doesn't include the illegal aliens...

[Danny]

Sorry Danny, it is the fault of both parties, no matter what the vote was on any one particular issue. They all have their hands in the coookie jar and are insulated from reality by living in D.C, campaign treasure chests, revolving doors and 'the good ole boy' system.

The main fault is the Republican Party. They spend for what's good for elitism not for American People. That cause the Democrats to proposals to cut spending, raise taxes and keep on voting for more unemployment supplements. What makes the government broken? It's starts with Reagonomics.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHETS

As I watch more people losing their jobs.


Neda, I miss you.

[R8RBOB]

Whats that old saying? Socialism is great until you run out of everybody else's money

Funny how the word socialism creep up in our mainstream. I supposed it happened at the same time the phrase "American Dream" became "American Nightmare"

[Zacha341]

Or Door Number 3 :

The main fault is the Republican AND Democratic Party [[and their ongoing faux implied opposition for the purpose of securing votes and endorsement).

They BOTH spend for what's good for elitism not for American People!

The main fault is the Republican Party. They spend for what's good for elitism not for American People. That cause the Democrats to proposals to cut spending, raise taxes and keep on voting for more unemployment supplements. What makes the government broken? It's starts with Reagonomics.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHETS

As I watch more people losing their jobs.


Neda, I miss you.

[Bobl]

Those who feel that unemployed people are lazy or not motivated are wrong in most cases. The past two and a half years have been a nightmare for many who found themselves laid off or outsourced. Despite persistent attempts, I have been bouncing between unemployment compensation and jobs offering subsistence wages. Told twice that I am "overqualified", whatever that means!
Hundreds of resumes, entries at job sites, and networking attempts were in vain.

Then, this week, a totally unexpected phone call came, offering a good job at good pay. Glad to take it, I realize that sometimes one needs luck, in addition to persistence and hard work to land a job in this economy.

I invite those who accuse most recipients of unemployment compensation of laziness to quit their job [[so someone else can have it) and see how difficult this job market is for themselves. A few will be lucky. Most will not.

[sumas]

Strange, compassion, was mentioned early in this thread but not repeated.

So many worthy people are now suffering due to economics. Broad generalizations insulting the newly poor just show ignorance.

I consider myself to be political in nature but have no major affliation with one party or another. No one seems to be stepping up to the plate. A new party might be in order. One that is't owned by special interests

The silly comments about the people collecting assistance in one form or another make me very sad, we are apparently "a nation of dunces".

[oladub]

And by the way Oladub.... where on earth did you come up with this fuzzy math....

9% Unemployment Rate - 5% Illegal Aliens Unemployed = 4% Actual unemployment rate.

I know you're smarter than that, and didn't just return from Dumbfuckistan to come up with those statistics??

Let me guess.... Beckistan or Rushistan....

Anyone registering for unemployment has to have a Social Security Number and other ID.... so that 9% statistic doesn't include the illegal aliens...

Guess again. The 9% statistic was rounded down from last month's government 9.5 unemployment figure of people still looking for work. The 5% total of illegal aliens in our workforce and the 17% of construction workers are illegal aliens are numbers provided from a 2008 Pew research study. If the 5% of US jobs held by illegal immigrants were taken over by US citizens now on unemployment, the result would be a US unemployment rate of 4%.

Reviewing the Pew article [[see below), the number of jobs held by illegal aliens in the US in 2008 was 5.4% rather than the 5% I stated.

A Portrait of Unauthorized Immigrants in the United States Pew Research [[not Beck or Rush) 2008

[Det_ard]

Well besides that "communisum".... we have all those illegal "fuhriners" to worry about!

And by the way Oladub.... where on earth did you come up with this fuzzy math....

9% Unemployment Rate - 5% Illegal Aliens Unemployed = 4% Actual unemployment rate.

I know you're smarter than that, and didn't just return from Dumbfuckistan to come up with those statistics??

Let me guess.... Beckistan or Rushistan....

Anyone registering for unemployment has to have a Social Security Number and other ID.... so that 9% statistic doesn't include the illegal aliens...

You're being awfully condescending for someone who obviously has no idea how the government generates their official unemployment rate statistics. Hint: there are actually two measures, but neither uses the number of people registering for unemployment.

[Thames]

I feel really sorry for you, when you're out here running other middle, working class people down, like they're all scammers. Show some empathy and you might get some empathy. You're not the only one working a job, self-employed, owning a business, ineligible for UI. Save your indignation and anger for the people who deserve it - the politicians and wealthy business execs who prey on you and yours. Our very own nobility, ruling class, oligarchy. And, btw, I've never shit on you. But I have been in your shoes.Try getting anger management therapy [[Medical Care?) in this, the greatest country on earth. If you can't find it, you have a couple of choices, pay for it yourself, or go to jail - our great country's most original and cost-effective [[?) anger management system, brought to you by none other than our wonderful politicians. You know, the same 'representatives' who won't let us have the benefits they enjoy.

I'm not running anybody down. All I did was state a fact. Not everyone collecting unemployment should be. Don't kill the messenger. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, said that EVERYONE on unemployment doesn't deserve help.

Believe it or not, middle class people can be just as thieving as politicians. Just because I realize that fact, and call them out, doesn't make me unsympathetic to people who truly need help.

Two years is enough for unemployment. Its enough time to get through a tax payer funded retraining program, exactly like Blueidone's son is doing.

The automotive industry jobs are not coming back. Maybe in ten years, a few of those jobs will return. I'm not willing to help pay unemployment to someone for ten years while they wait for a job that they hope comes back. It's time to rethink, retrain, and get off of unemployment. Two years is enough.

Obviously, you don't agree, so you go ahead and support them indefinitely, I don't want to. I don't want to support more than two years of unemployment any more than I want to be forced to keep supporting these stupid wars or corrupt politicians.

I know, I'm a bad person, supporting the idea of two years of unemployment benefits makes me a monster, with no empathy for others. Whatever.

[Novine]

"If the 5% of US jobs held by illegal immigrants were taken over by US citizens now on unemployment, the result would be a US unemployment rate of 4%."

What makes you think there's any connection between those two groups of people? In my world, the people who are unemployed come from a wide variety of white collar and manufacturing jobs. I don't recall seeing too many illegals working in those fields.

[Hermod]

Rather than let unemployment benefits expire, the country should institute a modern day version of the depression-era, what was it called, CCC, I think? That outfit that welcomed unemployed people of all stripes, and put them to work doing useful "stuff," like building the Hoover Dam and such. Sort of a right-to-work thing, but not in the union sense.

My father worked out of a CCC camp [[he was a government tech with the Soil Conservation Service) and was a life long admirer of the CCC program.

To be in the CCC, you had to be young and unmarried. You signed up for CCC. You were moved to a far part of the country and lived in an isolated, rural area. You lived in very temporary wooden barracks [[worse than the Army WWII ones). You ate very plain food in a mess hall. Every morning you marched off in a work gang to do very hard [physical labor with a pick and shovel.

It was good training for going into the army in 1941. My father says they always chose the ex-CCC types to be the acting corporals.

Think the hard core unemployed in the "D" would go for it?

[unclefrank]

"If the 5% of US jobs held by illegal immigrants were taken over by US citizens now on unemployment, the result would be a US unemployment rate of 4%."

What makes you think there's any connection between those two groups of people? In my world, the people who are unemployed come from a wide variety of white collar and manufacturing jobs. I don't recall seeing too many illegals working in those fields.

Also, take into account all the good paying tech jobs that were shipped overseas. The IT field in the US was almost wiped out by it.

[Zacha341]

Solution... Use alphabets instead of numbers, keep last entry: Blame Bush. LOL!

There are a number of solutions, or at least partial solutions, to the unemployment problem in Michigan. Here are a few off the top of my head. Perhaps you could add to the list.

1) Unemployment compensation is a state matter. Elect state politicians who will raise taxes to pay for additional unemployment benefits. Alternatively, redirect government waste and redundant spending toward unemployment payments.
2) Get rid of some local and state zoning and occupational licensing requirements which hinder the unemployed from feeding themselves. Why can't someone who can't make their monthly payments repair cars, do perms, bake pies, elderly care, or whatever out of their homes if it would make the difference of being able to buy medicine or food? Where's the compassion? ...at least until unemployment gets back below 5%.
3) National unemployment is officially over 9% while the percentage of illegal aliens in the US workforce is over 5% [[17% in construction). Simple math: 9%-5%=4% actual US worker unemployment. Start fining and incarcerating cheating employers instead of extending unemployment benefits or use the fines to contribute to expanding unemployment benefits.
4) End GATT, NAFTA and other corporatist agreements that usher US jobs out of the country. Michigan, as an industrial state was one of the states hit hardest by these agreements. It makes no sense to export jobs while importing workers.
4) End OPIC, a federal entity, which guarantees US corporate investement in foreign countries thereby subsidizing and encouraging a futher loss of US capital and jobs.
5) Expand the concept of enterprise zones for businesses that do not compete with those already in the State including new industries.
6) Adjust unemployment payments, or extend payments, to allow a higher rate of unemployment payouts to unemployed workers who choose to do three days a week of community service. Think of all the lawn mowing, abandoned home demolition, caring for the elderly, painting of public schools, etc. that needs to be done just in Detroit but that Detroit has no money for.
7) Obamacare will discourage employers from hiring more than 50 workers; at least in this country. The state could legislate some Kelly Girl type options allowing the expansion of their in-state work force if they temporarily need some extra workers. This would be better than forcing such businesses to move overseas or be paying a lot of overtime to existing employees, an inefficiency, just to prevent hiring more employees.
8) Blame Bush.

[highhat]

I`ve been in Fla.for over 20 yrs [[mostly building Disney World hotels)...The cranes are gone ..there are few jobs legal contractors are able to secure unless illegals are the primary work force...I have a kick ass resume but not once in the 26 weeks have I even received a phone call...what the hell am I supposed to do... I`m too old for this crap. I`m not lazy, just over qualified...Excuse the Hell out of me!

[oladub]

"If the 5% of US jobs held by illegal immigrants were taken over by US citizens now on unemployment, the result would be a US unemployment rate of 4%."

What makes you think there's any connection between those two groups of people? In my world, the people who are unemployed come from a wide variety of white collar and manufacturing jobs. I don't recall seeing too many illegals working in those fields.

The Pew Research article contained this graph listing the following percerntages of jobs taken by illegal aliens. Collectively these jobs account for 5.4% of all US jobs and they could be instead taken my US citizens now on unemployment. Lettuce might cost a dime or a quarter more but since taxpayers wouldn't be paying for enemployment extentions it would be cheaper to pay the little extra for the lettuce.

Occupations with high percentages of "unauthorized immigrants" 2008
farming 25%
building, groundkeeping , and maintainance 19%
construction 17%
food preperation and serving 12%
production 10%
transportation and material moving 7%

You are correct that there probably aren't many white collar jobs occupied by illegal aliens. However, if 'production' is the same as manufacturing, the percentage is 10% although that is probably more in certain inductries like meat packing and/or manufacturing in the southwest part of the country.

[Detroitnerd]

The Pew Research article contained this graph listing the following percerntages of jobs taken by illegal aliens. Collectively these jobs account for 5.4% of all US jobs and they could be instead taken my US citizens now on unemployment. Lettuce might cost a dime or a quarter more but since taxpayers wouldn't be paying for enemployment extentions it would be cheaper to pay the little extra for the lettuce.

Occupations with high percentages of "unauthorized immigrants" 2008
farming 25%
building, groundkeeping , and maintainance 19%
construction 17%
food preperation and serving 12%
production 10%
transportation and material moving 7%

You are correct that there probably aren't many white collar jobs occupied by illegal aliens. However, if 'production' is the same as manufacturing, the percentage is 10% although that is probably more in certain inductries like meat packing and/or manufacturing in the southwest part of the country.

This is all xenophobic nonsense, designed to take the heat off the elite who've brokered the deals that brought them here. Nobody complained in the second half of the 1990s when NAFTA brought the price of corn so low that Mexicans couldn't farm profitably anymore. So they went where the money is. If you have unregulated CAPITAL across borders, you're going to see unregulated immigration too.

But no. We're just going to sock it to the immigrants, while the banks and elite laugh and laugh at how we are so easily fooled. "Man, we just keep fucking them over and over and over again and they just take the bait and fight against each other! I love this country! Haha!"

[fryar]

Besides which, in general, we want people to immigrate and help keep the country dynamic. Besides, are illegal immigrants a big problem in Michigan, of all places?

Hermod, I love when you post stuff like that. Your dad was actually in the CCC? Awesome. And no, I didn't think it would be a walk in the park. But it seemed like a constructive approach for a country that lurches from not wanting to throw those seemingly chosen by lottery to the wolves to not wanting to subsidize failure. "Hard core" could be taken in different ways, but regardless, those in Detroit and elsewhere who have been unemployed for a long time would have options that they could count on. I too think that those who are unwilling to humble themselves, if necessary, and do what it takes, well, the heck with 'em. I've had to humble myself before to get by. It's part and parcel of why we hate ...... bags, in my opinion. :-)

Since the time of the CCC, we have become a lot better at setting goals and letting guys who may not be that little but are a lot littler than the government find ways to meet those goals. If we have crumbling infrastructure, let's put a bunch of people to work fixing it. Or counseling alcoholics. or anything constructive. There's a lot you can be dedicated to as a charity, and it'd keep unemployed people "fresher" than vegetating around in a state of hopelessness [[which doesn't apply to all, of course, but it's easy to see how it could apply to some, in fairness).
I'd like to see something like that, if we're going to suspend unemployment, frankly.

[fryar]

Ah. I see there's a filter on.

[R8RBOB]

This is all xenophobic nonsense, designed to take the heat off the elite who've brokered the deals that brought them here. Nobody complained in the second half of the 1990s when NAFTA brought the price of corn so low that Mexicans couldn't farm profitably anymore. So they went where the money is. If you have unregulated CAPITAL across borders, you're going to see unregulated immigration too.

But no. We're just going to sock it to the immigrants, while the banks and elite laugh and laugh at how we are so easily fooled. "Man, we just keep fucking them over and over and over again and they just take the bait and fight against each other! I love this country! Haha!"

I remember years ago, I read an article in either Newsweek or Time about how corporations like Tyson Chicken had coyotes smuggling illegals over the border to work in their various companies. The same corporations that stuff many hundreds into the pockets of politicians that sat on their hands in regards to immigration. It seems that poor Mexicans were willing to work for peanuts and live in a house with 20 other Mexicans sleeping on mattresses.

I loved how Bush would say openly how these same illegals would work jobs that Americans didn't want to work. What he failed to mention of course was how the various businesses that had these jobs wanted to pay wages so low that said job would be undesirable for Americans to maintain a decent "quality of life."

In America, we always need someone to blame except the one responsible for setting the fires.