Lower Woodward Heavily Vandalized

[Danny]

What can you all say about Detroit? Grabbing a baseball bat or throw a rock to break a window or spray a 'DEAD [[C)KRAK HEAD' sign in a local vacant building.

Most folks don't care about our city and its rich history long ago, just survival.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET.

Because talking about Detroit's problems is not going to make these everyday eyesores go away. It's going to take community power.

In Memoriam: Neda

[detroitsgwenivere]

I can't get over some of the "deterrants" you guys are coming up with. Breaking taggers hands? Millions of cameras everywhere?!! This shit hasn't worked in any other big city on the planet so why do you think it will work here?

One answer is that the taggers need to start policing themselves. The good ones all know each other and most are avid Pro-Detroiters. If they catch an asshole in the act, they can issue a beat down, with no cop interference necessary.

Another thing is to provide space for the taggers to work on, that's what 5 Elements gallery did in Corktown, and we've managed to keep the graffitti down significantly over there.

And what does Liberalism have anything to do with taggers? Most of em are anarchists or can barely spell liberalism, hence the "krakhead"and "ghey" tags....

[kathy2trips]

Cameras do work, but only if there is more than a slap on the wrist if caught. I think we should chain them together under the watchful eye of a badmotha cop like Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke" and make them scrub these buildings until they freaking sparkle. Taggers just have too much energy; let's use it for the public good.

[DetroitDad]

What can you all say about Detroit? Grabbing a baseball bat or throw a rock to break a window or spray a 'DEAD [[C)KRAK HEAD' sign in a local vacant building.

Most folks don't care about our city and its rich history long ago, just survival.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET.

Because talking about Detroit's problems is not going to make these everyday eyesores go away. It's going to take community power.

In Memoriam: Neda

Yet it's the problems they don't have time to solve now that cause the problems of their future, and individuals demise.

A couple years ago, a few of you were discussing why some streets in Detroit "hung on", while others in the same neighborhood went to pot. What makes the difference had to do with the above mentioned Broken Window Theory. If you parked a nice car, in an area, a time will go by with nothing happening. If you break a window on that car, further vandalism will usually occur.

Vandalism attracts problems, as it appears no one cares. To make matters worse, once something is left in disrepair, eventually something else gets broken. It could be an accident, regardless, it isn't fixed. Graffiti and other vandalism starts to appear. More and more damage begins to build up. In a short time, problems and damage add up, and as the citizens get out, they are replaced with criminals. Eventually, it all comes crashing down.

[DetroitDad]

I have a habit of letting dishes or e-mail build up until they are unmanageable. Every time you postpone a fix, you create a debt. Like all debt, it needs to be kept in check. However, it doesn't take much to get to the point where you can never repay your debt.

Game Over!

I got and kept my job by stopping the small problems before they grow into big problems. This is what Mayor Guiliani did in New York. By attacking the small stuff, he cut the major crime rates of violent crime and robbery by about half over four years. A build up of small problems create additional problems in any system of cause and affect.

[DetroitDad]

Cameras do work, but only if there is more than a slap on the wrist if caught. I think we should chain them together under the watchful eye of a badmotha cop like Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke" and make them scrub these buildings until they freaking sparkle. Taggers just have too much energy; let's use it for the public good.

We shouldn't need additional response measures, should we? I mean; do you want to live in a city that is based on responses, or prevention?

[DetroitDad]

I can't get over some of the "deterrants" you guys are coming up with. Breaking taggers hands? Millions of cameras everywhere?!! This shit hasn't worked in any other big city on the planet so why do you think it will work here?

One answer is that the taggers need to start policing themselves. The good ones all know each other and most are avid Pro-Detroiters. If they catch an asshole in the act, they can issue a beat down, with no cop interference necessary.

Another thing is to provide space for the taggers to work on, that's what 5 Elements gallery did in Corktown, and we've managed to keep the graffitti down significantly over there.

And what does Liberalism have anything to do with taggers? Most of em are anarchists or can barely spell liberalism, hence the "krakhead"and "ghey" tags....

When a fly gets trapped in a web, it see's the spider and panics, entangling itself even more. The fly cannot see that untangling itself is more productive than panicking or facing the spider.

[warsaw7]

I Most of em are anarchists or can barely spell liberalism, hence the "krakhead"and "ghey" tags....

I personally know Ghey and he/she is actually a very smart individual. That it just his/her tag name. A lot of STREET ARTISTS use words that imply no meaning, it doesn't mean that they can't spell. Please do your homework first before you come on here and express your one-sided views on STREET ARTISTS.

[rjlj]

It think you can group it into three catagories, Tags[[throw-ups or whatever), Street Art and Crap. Detroit has a lot of Crap from wanna be srteet artists. Almost anyone can make bubble letters like your sister did on her trapper keeper in elementary school and that is what most of the stuff around town looks like. It really makes the city look like shit, not to mention the true artists get grouped with the bubble letter people making them look bad.

[DetroitDad]

I personally know Ghey and he/she is actually a very smart individual. That it just his/her tag name. A lot of STREET ARTISTS use words that imply no meaning, it doesn't mean that they can't spell. Please do your homework first before you come on here and express your one-sided views on STREET ARTISTS.

We do have places designated for graffiti. The entire Dequindre Cut allows it, and the city even protects it. Some local restaurants have also jumped on board, allowing graffiti on there walls, or installing chalk boards in the restrooms.

When everything is profane, than nothing is sacred.

Smashing windows and painting misspelled obscenities is not art, mainly because it is not intended to be a contribution to the community, but meant to detract from it. The fact that these otherwise graffiti artists stopped doing, or showed no interest in doing what they do in the areas set aside, and instead stick to the most prominent buildings, leads me to believe they are self serving. They are not artists, but chasing fame. Their work's primary goal is to get the name of the vandal "out there".

[downtownguy]

The banner advertisement on the Broderick Tower has also torn down, and lays in shreds on top of the Madison/Angelina's Building.

I call that an improvement.

Of all the gin joints, in all the neighborhoods, in all of Detroit, they have to slap an ad on a Wyland mural.

[Retroit]

I can't get over some of the "deterrants" you guys are coming up with... Millions of cameras everywhere?!! This shit hasn't worked in any other big city on the planet...

As much as I'd like to take credit for coming up with the concept:

High-tech video cameras installed throughout the city captured images from about 300 crimes in the past 18 months and helped Denver police make about 80 arrests, authorities say...The Colfax Business Improvement District will give police $250,000 to buy and install 12 more cameras along East Colfax Avenue.
Target Corp. is donating $100,000 for police surveillance cameras...

source: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_15236766

In July of 2003, the Chicago Police Department unveiled a revolutionary pilot program using specially developed and customized technology aimed at reducing crime in Chicago’s most violence prone communities. This technology used remote-controlled and viewable cameras called Police Observation Devices - commonly referred to as PODs...serious index crimes declined by 17%, while non-index, quality-of-life crimes declined by 46%. Focusing on just narcotic-related crime revealed a decrease of 76%. At the same time, narcotic-related arrests declined 3.3% on beats where PODs were located, but increased 151.7% on the beats immediately surrounding the POD beats.

source: https://portal.chicagopolice.org/por.../POD%20Program

...the camera system helped Baltimore police arrest 759 people last year, of which 207 were found guilty of crimes and another 214 have cases pending in the courts... a 24 percent decrease in the downtown areas since the cameras went up in 2004 ... police have actual arrested 1,725 people with the help of the cameras, a 22 percent increase, including more than 1,000 people on drug charges, 77 for assaults, 45 for robberies and 17 for theft.

source: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...ight_over.html

With more than 4 million CCTV cameras operating around the country, Britain has more video surveillance than anywhere else in the world... it would be impossible to avoid all of the 96 cameras at Heathrow airport, 1,800 in train stations, 6,000 on the London Underground, 260 around parliament, 230 used for license plate recognition in the city center...There is now one camera for every 14 Britons living in London...

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5942513/

Other cities using surveillance cameras: Seattle, Austin, Pittsburgh, Washington D.C., New York, ...

...so why do you think it will work here?

Oh yes, Detroiters are an alien species that can't possibly function like any other city. You got a point there!

[DetroitDad]

As much as I'd like to take credit for coming up with the concept:

source: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_15236766

source: https://portal.chicagopolice.org/por.../POD%20Program

source: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...ight_over.html

source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5942513/

Other cities using surveillance cameras: Seattle, Austin, Pittsburgh, Washington D.C., New York, ...



Oh yes, Detroiters are an alien species that can't possibly function like any other city. You got a point there!

It took less than a week [[3 days?) for New Orleans to erupt in anarchy after Hurricane Katrina. The veneer of order in a society is clearly very thin.

[warsaw7]

We do have places designated for graffiti. The entire Dequindre Cut allows it, and the city even protects it. Some local restaurants have also jumped on board, allowing graffiti on there walls, or installing chalk boards in the restrooms.

When everything is profane, than nothing is sacred.

Smashing windows and painting misspelled obscenities is not art, mainly because it is not intended to be a contribution to the community, but meant to detract from it. The fact that these otherwise graffiti artists stopped doing, or showed no interest in doing what they do in the areas set aside, and instead stick to the most prominent buildings, leads me to believe they are self serving. They are not artists, but chasing fame. Their work's primary goal is to get the name of the vandal "out there".

OK where in my statement do I mention anything on promoting vandalism or justifying that "graffiti" is legit? If you want to get into that debate I will gladly debate you. Yes there is a difference between graffiti and street art. I do not agree with individuals putting their work up on non vacant buildings and smashing windows, those individuals give STREET ARTISTS a very bad name. I do entertain the idea of vacant buildings acting as a canvas to many talented STREET ARTISTS, it is the purest form of art.

[DetroitDad]

Link: http://detroitactiongroup.webs.com/a...th-at-10-00-am

Please join me!

I'm thinking this Sunday will be concentrated on trash pickup, and possibly weed pulling, if needed, as well as a general overview of what needs to be done to do the things that need to be done. Graffiti cleanup also is needed on some traffic boxes, bus shelters, and vacant windows. Some of the buildings managed to damage their windows attempting to clean off graffiti, so I am looking for someone who knows how to do this without damaging the windows.

Lower Woodward in Downtown was vandalized last weekend. Most of the building owners fixed up the damage to their buildings, but the city owned buildings, bus shelters, and buildings with absent landlords have not yet been touched. Following the belief that apparent neglect leads to criminals thinking residents don't care, and therefore leading to bigger crimes and further neglect, Lower Woodward needs to be repaired, as it is our most prominent avenue, and what represents all of Detroit to our criminals and visitors.

Link: http://detroitactiongroup.webs.com/a...th-at-10-00-am

PS: If you have any suggestions for any organizations we should approach for help and to work with in the near future, please post them or message me with them.

[DetroitDad]

OK where in my statement do I mention anything on promoting vandalism or justifying that "graffiti" is legit? If you want to get into that debate I will gladly debate you. Yes there is a difference between graffiti and street art. I do not agree with individuals putting their work up on non vacant buildings and smashing windows, those individuals give STREET ARTISTS a very bad name. I do entertain the idea of vacant buildings acting as a canvas to many talented STREET ARTISTS, it is the purest form of art.

Until the home or building you were saving for gets much more expensive because it then includes "art" cleanup. Or, until that building is down the street from you, and you have to deal with all the people who think tags and graffiti are a sign of people not caring, and then cause further vandalism or a attitude of not caring [[littering, accidental vandalism, etc.).

I agree it's all perception and interpretation, and some of it is amazing, but that is irrelevant to me. It goes against maintaining and improving Detroit either way, and makes it harder for me to open or keep businesses and residents here, so it really doesn't matter what you and I view as art.

My respect for the graffiti and the artists who create them are contingent with them respecting my home and community, especially when the artists aren't even from the region, let alone city.

PS: Woodward Center [[former Athlete's Foot and Nike Stores) managed to damage the glass windows taking this stuff off. The only way to fix the windows now is to replace them, as far as I know. I'm sure those windows are not cheap.

If that keeps up, it won't be long until we have bars or shutters on all the buildings again, in order for building owners to protect their buildings. It's also frustrating that the precious few volunteers have to waste time on this, when there are a million other things around here that need to be done.

[cman710]

Good luck with your project, Detroitdad. If I were in town, I would have helped out.

[Retroit]

Graffiti can be removed from windows with a razor blade.

[wolverine]

There is a bunch of cleaners you can pick up from any Target, meijer, whatever that will assist in removing graffiti. In fact the same stuff we use to clean our conference room whiteboards is actually used to remove graffiti from windows. Some scrawled a tag on the window of a store next to us. It wasn't a big deal at all. Acetone was applied and it came off with hardly any effort.

PS: Woodward Center [[former Athlete's Foot and Nike Stores) managed to damage the glass windows taking this stuff off. The only way to fix the windows now is to replace them, as far as I know. I'm sure those windows are not cheap.

They must be idiots then. Anyone with at least some sense would take the time to look up the best technique for removing graffiti from windows. It's so easy to do, I don't understand why they would have then destroyed their windows. It's very common here in Chicago to see new construction sites in some of the bad areas get their windows covered in huge blocks of graffiti. The next day they are gone and the glass looks perfect.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I personally know Ghey and he/she is actually a very smart individual. That it just his/her tag name. A lot of STREET ARTISTS use words that imply no meaning, it doesn't mean that they can't spell. Please do your homework first before you come on here and express your one-sided views on STREET ARTISTS.

Ummm, apparently you didn't catch my hint of sarcasm before you started placing judgements on me yourself .

Homework my ass. I used to bomb the industrial Milwaulkee graveyard myself when I was a kid I've also been an outspoken supporter of street art with the Mayor's office and the City Council, since I do have their ears at least once a month. When my neighbors spoke about a witch hunt for the individuals who tagged up a bus stop on Trumbull, I was the one who threatened to call the cops on them, since the boys who did it were just kids with nothing better to do, which is the REAL cause of the problem as far as young people are concerned. And when I had a chance to speak with those boys, I redirected them to a place where they could tag without fear of reprecussion. The tagging on private businesses in our neighborhood almost stopped, since someone else is still at work. No cameras required. No needless cop involvement necessary.

[detroitsgwenivere]

cities using surveillance cameras: Seattle, Austin, Pittsburgh, Washington D.C., New York, ...

Oh yes, Detroiters are an alien species that can't possibly function like any other city. You got a point there!

And Chicago and Baltimore and Denver and every other "civilized" Nazi copfest city you can come up with. The reason why I live in Detroit is because I DON'T want to live in these places, and as soon as there's a f*ckin camera watchin my every move in this town, I'll be voting with my feet too.

Tens of thousands of dollars were spent putting up cameras off 8 mile and you want to know what happened? THEY WERE SHOT OUT. IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. IN FRONT OF CHILDREN.

Businesses wanting to protect themselves can elect whether or not they want cameras on their property. I don't want my precious tax dollars being spent so that big brother and dirty cops can spy on me. I rather they went to keeping these parks open so that kids who might tag up my property will be too playing ball or something.

And for those of you who are serious about cleaning up "broken windows" do something about it! Get together and spend your spare time taking back your own neighborhood. Find out who owns these properties that are left to rot and start holding them accountable. Write letters to them, go to Council meetings and bitch, create a banner of your own street art saying " Here sits said asshole's blighted property that he will not take responsibility for. It's dragging down our community." Whatever it takes. Fight fire with fire, that's what I do, and it usually works.

[detroitsgwenivere]

For those of you who are Street Art lovers like myself [[contrary to popular belief) here are some great books for you to enjoy:

Written on the City: Graffitti Messages Worldwide
Axel Albin & Josh Kamler

The Street Art Book: 60 Artists in Their Own Words
Ric Blackshaw & Liz Farrelly

Graffitti Planet
Ket

Street Art and the War on Terror
Eleanor Mathieson and Xavier A. Tapies

Stencil Nation: Graffitti, Community, and Art
Russell Howze

Graffitti Kings: NY City Transit Art of the 1970's
Jack Stewart


Just to name a few.....

[Retroit]

...as soon as there's a f*ckin camera watchin my every move in this town, I'll be voting with my feet too.

An even better reason I hadn't considered.

I don't want my precious tax dollars being spent so that big brother and dirty cops can spy on me.

But you don't mind spending money to clean up the mess of vandals, or pay for more police protection? As indicated by my first source, funding can be provided by private sources, such as businesses or business organizations.

[wolverine]

Businesses wanting to protect themselves can elect whether or not they want cameras on their property. I don't want my precious tax dollars being spent so that big brother and dirty cops can spy on me. I rather they went to keeping these parks open so that kids who might tag up my property will be too playing ball or something.

Are you one of those conspiracy theorists type of people? Cities don't even have the money to staff someone to "watch" a street corner though a tv monitor all day long. Most of the system is computerized, and do you think a computer gives a crap about you walking down the street? Well only when you pull out a gun or knife and use it. You seem a little paranoid, detroitsgwenivere. No one is going to bother you if you are in good behavior. If a crime does occur, they can go back and use the footage to prosecute.

I'm surprised you are so worried about the government watching you. Alot of people should be more concerned about private citizens filming them for an embarassing minute and posting it on youtube. The great thing is a city will never point one these cameras at your property. But a private citizen can film or snap pictures of your home from a public street as much as they want.

[Retroit]

Alot of people should be more concerned about private citizens filming them for an embarassing minute and posting it on youtube.

A lot of people should be more concerned about filming themselves for an embarrassing minute and posting it on youtube!