Why Did GM Move to Ren Ctr & Leave Cadillac Place?

[R8RBOB]

Regarding Comerica and it's occupancy at the RenCen -- legacy Comerica [[Detroit Bank & Trust) had it's headquarters at 211 West Fort Street. Manufacturers National Bank had it's headquarters at the RenCen, as well as having additional offices at 411 West Lafayette. Post-merger the bank maintained all 3 sites, though I believe the actual headquarters remained at 211 West Fort. Once Comerica signed the lease at One Detroit Center, the offices left both the RenCen and 211 West Fort...though 411 West Lafayette was maintained...now with Comerica's disappearing act to Dallas, everything is being consolidated back at 411 West Lafayette...full-circle.

An interesting side-note which I know has been discussed here before, but I'll re-hash for the sake of those who might not be aware. The mothballed Manufacturers Bank Executive Suite/Boardroom was left fully intact at the RenCen--and GM now uses it as it's Executive Offices having made only minor cosmetic alterations as well as obvious technoligical upgrades to the space--a good reuse of the custom-designed space and something that definitely shows that GM was at least beginning to think progressively when it made the move downtown.

Another tidbit--the bank's presence at both sites is maintained by way of the branches still operating at West Fort and the RenCen--at the RenCen branch [[or near it) I believe there is still a bronze plaque commemorating Manufacturers' role in the development and construction of the complex. Comerica also uses the columns on the historic DB&T branch adjoining 211 West Fort in some of it's recent "Prevail" ad/posters.

Thanks for the info. I knew that Comerica had Fort St. for their HQ and Manufacturer's had the RenCen as their HQ but I wasn't sure who had the Lafayette location; MNB or Comerica.

[Gistok]

An interesting side-note which I know has been discussed here before, but I'll re-hash for the sake of those who might not be aware. The mothballed Manufacturers Bank Executive Suite/Boardroom was left fully intact at the RenCen--and GM now uses it as it's Executive Offices having made only minor cosmetic alterations as well as obvious technoligical upgrades to the space--a good reuse of the custom-designed space and something that definitely shows that GM was at least beginning to think progressively when it made the move downtown.

Thanks for the history... I remember back when Manufacturers had those executive offices... I took the elevator to the 38th floor of Tower 400, and there were the executive offices with a 2 story atrium [[you could not take the elevator to the [[top) 39th floor in that tower).

I also remember that they could not fit the Manufacturers Board Room table into the Tower 400 glass enclosed elevators, so they had to rig it so that the table went up on top of the elevator car [[they probably removed the outside elevator glass to get it in there). So GM is still using that same Board Room table...

[fryar]

Those berms along Jefferson and the parking lot along the river were bad enough, but when you entered the public areas of the complex not only would you get completely lost your first few times through, but it seemed everything was unadorned pre-stressed concrete.

You said it. The modern-day RenCen is bad enough, internally [[it's not so bad from the outside, though some don't like that whole glass look). It surprised me when I found out that GM had renovated it to make of it what one could. Musta been a real stinker.
Likewise, it just knocked my socks off to see Lowell's pictures of the RenCen during a flyover in 1992 [[link). What a sea of surface lots, yech!
Kudos to GM for investing in Detroit.

[Zacha341]

Yep, well fortified buildings with mega security now sit on that land.

Wow, that took me back down memory lane. I recall when Chrsyler had their student intern program working heavily with WSU and CCS in HP back in the 80's. The area was getting rough then. And no, employees being killed in the parking lot should not be normative. Many companies have left when lack of response to such suggest it's normal!

A couple of things: the building that is now known as "Cadillac Place" was known as the "General Motors headquarters" during their long history there.

Conditions at Chrysler's Highland Park headquarters were bad, and Chrysler, having come back from the brink of death and enjoying the success of having repaid the government loans ahead of time decided to move to auburn hills and build their headquarters and engineering, styling, administration and preproduction build under one roof.

Workers were routinely being robbed as they left work, and one engineer was killed in a parking lot in a robbery-gone-bad [[note to some: this is not normal, and should not be accepted as normal), Highland Park was not responsive to contain this chaos and Chrysler voted with their feet.

Facilities were old and aging in HP, some predated Walter P. Chrysler's conversion of Maxwell into Chrysler, and it was time to go.
The area is not derelict, it's not the Packard plant, Chrysler demolished everything and now there are modern industrial buildings on the site.

[Zacha341]

Well stated! The concrete look back in the 80's was awful. It has sorta grown on me as time has gone on, but before it just looked unfinished and cold. And the navigation of the building... terrible. There were too many places also for weirdos to hang out and felt unsafe off hours, though that is less of a problem now. Thank goodness the STUPID BERMS were finally removed!! They only walled off the building more making it look at the more UN-INVITING.

.... Regarding the Ren Cen, I always thought it was a great example of awful modern architecture. Those berms along Jefferson and the parking lot along the river were bad enough, but when you entered the public areas of the complex not only would you get completely lost your first few times through, but it seemed everything was unadorned pre-stressed concrete. I always thought the Blade Runner look was supposed to be a vision of dystopia, not a prescription for urban design. Retail anywhere depends on having sufficient population within a reasonable distance from the store, and given that Detroit hasn't had many upper-income people living downtown in ages, it wasn't realistic to expect high-end retailers to survive in the Ren Cen. There aren't too many execs who are going to pop downstairs over lunch to buy a couple of suits.

Finally, I agree totally that Detroit got ripped off for a downtown because Ford was in Dearborn, Chrysler was in HP and NYC, and GM was in New Center. Had the Three had their headquarters [[and associated suppliers) downtown, then downtown Detroit would have been a way more impressive place.

[bragaboutme]

Jason, do you know where to find the other options that were turned down. I'm. Curious to know why they went with the Ren Cen as the final rendering.

[DetroitPlanner]

Jason, do you know where to find the other options that were turned down. I'm. Curious to know why they went with the Ren Cen as the final rendering.

Nothing ever got to the point of being 'turned down'. The plan was to build the thing in phases as this is/was going to be one of the biggest developments in the world [[heck its still ended up being a huge development, way ahead of its time and years before Kawala Lampur and Vegas got into the game. The development was in trouble since it was built. I was surprised towers 500 and 600 were built!

To those who seem to forget, there is quite a bit of housing attached to the RenCen. In fact the housing is owned by GM.

[leland_palmer]

There was a residential component to the Ren Cen which was never finished.

It was supposed to be flanked by 4 shorter office towers on each side [[two were built north east of the Ren Cen). Then on the southern edge of the ren cen there was going to be residential facing the river. And then I think the roofs of all of the bases were going to be some kind of plaza.

Here's a rendering:

Here are some shots of the model.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN134%5D12B

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN137%5D12E

[Traveller1]

Here are some shots of the model.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN134%5D12B

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN137%5D12E

What are those things in the model that are on the riverfront that look as if they are small buildings or something. Obviously they were never built.

[Traveller1]

Has the RenCen ever had its glass replaced?

I don't know if it's just me, but I remember back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's the RenCen took on more of a Black/Gold color. Now it takes on a bluish color, especially on a sunny day. Did GM do something to the glass when they bought the complex?

2001


2001


How it looks today


You can tell it has a much bluer tint to the glass.

[Hermod]

The development was in trouble since it was built. I was surprised towers 500 and 600 were built!
.

Many firms had offices in RenCen only because Henry the Deuce arm twisted every financial, accounting, and legal firm with Ford business into renting space there whether they wanted to be in downtown Detroit or not.


.

[R8RBOB]

Here are some shots of the model.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN134%5D12B

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN137%5D12E

Thanks for the links.

It looks likes the idea to build the eight smaller buildings fell through and the developers decided to build 500 and 600 which didn't appear in the model.

[R8RBOB]

I was checking out some of the construction pics of the RenCen and it looked like the first thing they built was those damn berms...LOL

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=0;view=image

[EastsideAl]

What are those things in the model that are on the riverfront that look as if they are small buildings or something. Obviously they were never built.

Those were supposed to be the residential buildings. Obviously never built. The complex was completed right into the teeth of the '70s recession, that was particularly bad for the auto industry, and the real acceleration of depopulation in Detroit, so there was no real market for them at all. As was said above, it was amazing that the two smaller side towers [[500 & 600) were ever built.

do you know where to find the other options that were turned down. I'm. Curious to know why they went with the Ren Cen as the final rendering.

As for the question of alternative plans, I don't think there ever were any. I believe John Portman was the architect from the beginning. He was enormously popular at the time, having come off of what were then seen as highly successful downtown revitalization projects in Atlanta, San Francisco, and L.A. As I remember, it was considered quite a coup to get him to work on a building in Detroit, and generally viewed as a measure of Henry Ford II's power and influence.

[fastcarsandfreedom]

I have also noticed the berms under construction early in the development in old photos. If memory serves me correctly from the GM renos, the berms actually contained some critical infrastructure components [[HVAC) -- so their removal was pretty complicated--of course they also supported the DPM track and platform.

As for the "color" change--I think the most noticable change is the central tower--and likely explained by the replacement of the drapes in the hotel when it was renovated [[and transitioned from Westin to Marriott). The hotel tower's shape causes it to change appearance with changing light conditions--I've always thought it looked best at dusk in waning light. As far as I know there has never been a major changeout of the glazing--the hotel is semi-reflective along with 500 & 600, while 100/200/300/400 have a dark tint behind exposed silver framing.

Personally I miss the old Big Boy with the view of the river.

[Lowell]

Great thread. Great posts. Thanks all for the education!

[Gistok]

Just want to correct something you pointed out. In the late 90's Barbara-Rose Collins, JoAnn Watson and Sharon McPhail was not on the City Council. Collins returned to the council in 2002 which was the same year that McPhail was elected. Watson was voted in a special election in 2003 following the death of Brenda Scott.

Women who was on the council in the late 90's were Mahaffey, Scott, Cockrel, Everett, Tinsley-Williams

Thanks for the correction R8RBOB.... I should have checked the council members list during the mid 1990s. McPhail and Collins were on the council before and after that scenario took place in the 1990s... [[McPhail ran unsuccessfully for mayor against Archer after CAY bowed out, and Collins had a dismal stint as a Congresswoman). And as for Watson... it just seems like she's been there forever...

[R8RBOB]

Thanks for the correction R8RBOB.... I should have checked the council members list during the mid 1990s. McPhail and Collins were on the council before and after that scenario took place in the 1990s... [[McPhail ran unsuccessfully for mayor against Archer after CAY bowed out, and Collins had a dismal stint as a Congresswoman). And as for Watson... it just seems like she's been there forever...

No problem, however, you are correct to list those three as possible troublemakers to kill the GM/Detroit move. Think for a moment. Sharon McPhail was to Dennis Archer what Sarah Palin is to Barack Obama. A voice of opposition. I can believe she would have spoken out against the city moving into the GM building just because Archer was for it. Barbara-Rose Collins was coming home from Washington after losing her seat to her girl CCK so perhaps she was idle and then again maybe not but JoAnn Watson well Ms. Watson was in the media at the time and I'm sure she had a lot to say about the move. IMO.

[Onthe405]

Of Portman’s projects, RenCen is probably the closest to anything near successful, thanks in large part to GMs multi-million dollar redesign of the original layout. This isn’t saying much, as not one of his developments are esteemed by architects, urban planners, or the majority of local residents.


His designs were the essence of a bygone audacious “build it and they will come” philosophy toward downtown urban renewal that was the prevailing wisdom from the early 1960s through the late 1970s. Elements like scale, impact on [[and integration into) the surrounding neighborhood, and whether demand even existed for such massive commercial space, were scarcely considered at the time.


With the highly praised [[at the time) opening of the Hyatt Regency Atlanta, Portman was suddenly viewed as a King Midas for creating dazzling designs that could revive moribund urban centers. Atlanta, Detroit, and Los Angeles were near the top of that list in the 1970s. The instantaneous veneration of his work was both puzzling and premature, but still exists today in architects like Gehry & Pei.


While that now- defunct urban renewal approach was met with moderate success in massive projects like Chicago’s Sears Tower & Water Tower Place, NYC’s World Trade Center [[none Portman, but projects in the same vein) and SF’s Embarcadero Center, these projects were located in much less fragile downtowns that were not decaying as rapidly as in some other cities. It was more a matter of the public grudgingly absorbing them, rather than establishing a beacon for further development.


In the ensuing years, urban revival in downtown Los Angeles [[and Atlanta, to a certain extent) have progressed, albeit sketchily & slowly. However, Portman’s contributions to these cities [[unlike RenCen) have had little money re-invested in them, and are pretty much frozen in time. They are viewed largely by residents as tacky, kitschy relics of a flawed attempt at broad-brush, magic bullet solutions to downtown renewal.

[Gistok]

Good points all Onthe405...

Although this is rarely the case, the modern upgrades to Portman's Detroit RenCen actually are a great improvement on the original design. Instead of all the public spaces looking inward, the RenCen upgrades give the public spaces a more outward looking feel. And this was done seemlessly, so that if you were a first time visitor, you would have no way to differentiate Portman's original design from the modern upgrades.

This upgrade gives Detroit's RenCen a much less "dated" appearance than Atlanta's Peachtree Center and Los Angeles's Bonaventure Center.

Unfortunately when they rebuilt the People Mover Station at RenCen... they did not reuse the ceramic tile artwork... [[although it was far down the list of my favorite of the 13 People Mover Station artworks). Does this mean that they just hacked away and destroyed the original ceramic tile mural?

[Onthe405]

In total agreement, Gistok. Detroit had a distinct advantage in the form of a Fortune 500 benefactor that had the capital resources necessary to correct many of the sins of the original design. I believe the waterfront setting also helps mitigate some of the “glass & steel tower on top of a poured concrete fortress” look found in the others. The updated, sky lighted flow of RenCen out onto the riverfront gives it a much more human dimension as well.

Without that same level of reinvestment and unique location, the Atlanta & SF Hyatts, Atlanta’s Peachtree Plaza, and LA’s Bonaventure did not age gracefully. All of them are considered marginally maintained, bland, mid-lower tier convention hotels, none considered anywhere near a prestigious locale in their respective downtowns. From the street, with their harsh concrete facades intact, they are considered by most locals as eyesores which blend poorly [[if it all) with subsequent adjacent development.

In the case of Bonaventure, there is a 5 level maze of “retail” within the hotel [[unlike RenCen, there are not 6 office towers within the complex to help provide built-in clientele). 90% of it has been converted to makeshift hotel meeting space, B-class individual professional offices & businesses, or sits vacant with floor-to-ceiling windows covered in mini-blinds.

As a connoisseur of cheesy 1970s disaster flicks, I’ve always been fascinated by how Portman’s designs were the zeitgeist in Hollywood’s portrayal of “modern cosmopolitanism” during that era. In 1974’s “The Towering Inferno”, all of the “state-of-the-art” architectural elements of the fictitious Glass Tower are essentially Portman knockoffs [[the scenic elevators, top-floor restaurant, etc). The main floor “interior lobby” shots were actually filmed inside the Hyatt SF. That same year, “Earthquake” featured downtown LA’s “new” Macy’s [[formerly Broadway) Plaza---- a Portman multi-use complex that, to this day, trumps even Fairlane & Lakeside in all of its glorious, outdated 1970s hideousness.

[DetroitDad]

Here are some shots of the model.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN134%5D12B

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ENCEN137%5D12E

The uncompleted Renaissance Center, with it's above grade plaza reminded me a lot of various online discussions and documentaries on The Empire State Plaza, which actually was completed as planned.

For those who care, you can see the Empire Towers here; http://tinyurl.com/pu77kj

Switch to a birds eye view and scroll around the site. After seeing that horror, I'm glad Henry Ford II's vision was never realized as Mr. Rockefeller's was. Detroit really dodged a bullet there!

Some other interesting things that may make Detroiters feel a little better, zoom out on the aerial view of that map of Albany, New York. They actually built a main freeway on virtually it's entire riverfront. Then you have those sprawling subdivisions in the upper right hand corner... click here and take a birds eye view at how those beauties blend in with the natural landscape.

Of course, we really didn't do things that different here in Michigan, at all. I just can't get over why we as a country thought it was ever a good idea to destroy the human habitat [[urban centers) with horrific mega-buildings that made people feel awkward, lost, and altogether intimidated, while paving over and destroying the pristine countryside and wilderness... while claiming to love that same countryside and wilderness.

The naming of these mega buildings after what we hoped they would become [[like Renaissance Center), or the naming of the countryside pavements into what used to be there [[like Deer Acres, or Evergreen Estates) really adds a bit of irony that the builders surely must have seen.

[DetroitDad]

Has the RenCen ever had its glass replaced?

I don't know if it's just me, but I remember back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's the RenCen took on more of a Black/Gold color. Now it takes on a bluish color, especially on a sunny day. Did GM do something to the glass when they bought the complex?

2001


2001


How it looks today


You can tell it has a much bluer tint to the glass.

I agree, whatever they did looks much better. The building looks less like a dystopia industrial site, and more like a futuristic and inviting headquarters for a company who is "beyond petroleum". In fact, if you painted the center tower top copper, you could have duracel move in there today, and collaborate with GM to build the battery operated cars of tomorrow.

[56packman]

I remember working a Red Skelton show at the Fox in the early 90s, he told the audience "I'm staying at the Ren-cen __________ hotel [[whichever chain had it then) "the worlds largest basement"

[fastcarsandfreedom]

While it is easy to critique 30 and 40 year old architectural design and dismiss John Portman's work around the country--the argument does need some balance. Dismissing Portman ignores the fact that the Atlanta Hyatt Regency was absolutely ground-breaking in it's design and execution--elements of which carried over into subsequent Portman projects [[Atlanta Marriott, NYC Marriott Marquis, SF Hyatt/Embarcadero Center), as well as countless knockoffs [[the Embassy Suites hotel chain essentially based it's entire branding around the 'atrium' concept pioneered by Portman). The last time I was in ATL both the Marriott and Hyatt still looked great--it's just a shame the Hyatt has not reopened the Polaris. Indeed these may be mid-market convention hotels--but that is not a function or consequence of their design--but a business matter related to their ownership and operation. The Marriott Renaissance Center is a great looking hotel because the $ was spent to bring the hotel up to present-day standards for amenities and comfort...let's not forget that at the end of it's run as a Westin the place was looking extremely worn-out.