US Social Forum Detroit 2010

[Detroitnerd]

Absolutely right. And no one will take that humorless mish-mash seriously. Banging drums, tooting horns, screeching on bullhorns, chanting and generally acting like its 1968. Every grievence imaginable is represented at the parade, and handouts are being demanded. I'm thinking of marching in demand for free vodka. I have a right to that, don't I?

Haha. No need for that donnybrook. I'd buy you a drink, I'm sure.

Best part? The USSF hired 20 or so private security types [[dressed in combat boots, urban-pattern camouflage and wearing tactical web gear) from a local company to protect them ... from purse snatchers and any opposition, according to the security firm's spokesman. I guess they figured violence was possible. There are also maybe a hundred Detroit cops there.

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous at first sight, but the way it was explained to me it made more sense. Threat Management was the name of the company they worked with. They were consultants brought in to help coordinate things and allay the PD's fears. Perhaps you'd rather they didn't work with local police? I'm sure the cops feel better that they have security.

To protect them, apparently, from the one guy dressed in 18th century Tea Party gear.

Or the city. Heck, as a Detroit cop once said, when asked why he was sitting in his scout car doing nothing: "Hey, man. It's dangerous out there."

[bartock]

Detroitnerd said:

"Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc. I can hear 'em right outside my office right now."

From what I've seen today, it has been "mainly majorities," many looking college age. Perhaps I'm in the wrong spot [[Fort/Washington). Perhaps the "real" folks will be out later in the week. But, it seems rather touristy right now. Like many of these folks are waiting for the Phish set to start, trying to look like they don't have money .

The website for this event lists lodgings downtown and restaurants to go to, etc. So whatever the agendas, some will be spending money here. Good.

[lincoln8740]

Actually, my criticism is not of what he said, but the fact that he was describing people he hadn't seen yet. Which, you'll note, is exactly what you want me to do.


Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc. I can hear 'em right outside my office right now.

Hey an answer to a simple question!!!!

see it should not take 7 posts to get one

Not what was the problem with bshea saying that exact thing?

"Classic BShea. I find it very interesting you're able to critique the people at an event that hasn't happened yet, and whom you haven't spoke with yet. This is just a bunch of hot air, or, as you call it, "main-steam America." ""

[Detroitnerd]

Or to recycle an old gag. "Free Mumia? Where do I pick up my free Mumia?"

[Det_ard]

Just got back from the parade.

There is no reason for anyone to take any of the USSF seriously, based on what I witnessed.

And almost no one takes them seriously, not even most left/liberal/progressive types. Those way out on the left fringe, exemplified by detroitnerd, oldredfordette, maxx and others on the forum get all excited by this kind of confab but everyone else sees it as a relatively harmless flashmob of ill-conceived thoughts and meaningless emotions. Sure, code pink buries a rusted out Hummer in Tyree's backyard but that's more of a self-pleasuring activity than a world-changing one.

In fact most of the far-left seems motivated not by real progress [[if they were, they'd start a successful business and hire the poor themselves) but by the self-satisfaction of claiming the moral high ground while not really putting themselves out too much. It's easier to tell others what to do [[with the other's money, naturally) than to give up one's own comforts and shelter and feed the poor with the proceeds.

[casscorridor]

Just got back from the parade.

There is no reason for anyone to take any of the USSF seriously, based on what I witnessed.

Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc. I can hear 'em right outside my office right now.

Absolutely right. And no one will take that humorless mish-mash seriously. Banging drums, tooting horns, screeching on bullhorns, chanting and generally acting like its 1968. Every grievence imaginable is represented at the parade, and handouts are being demanded. I'm thinking of marching in demand for free vodka. I have a right to that, don't I?

What would you rather have? A tea party march of old ppl that are the same ppl who held up klan signs and nazi symbols at civil rights marches? And shout the N-word and threaten people? The march isn't really a protest, it is a celebration. Celebration of coming together, with a common goal of human emancipation, elimination of all forms of systems of oppression and domination and exploitation and the transformation of society. You might think this is all just a bunch of hippies anarcho-communists, but all of this is led by the the people who have been fucked over for the last 500 years of history-- people of color, immigrants, indigenous people, women, working-class white people, and LGBTQ people.

We can't agree on everything, but coming together deserves a celebration. The forum is sponsering 5 speicfic actions in Detroit, including a protest against the Incinerator on Saturday. There is thousands of workshops, the ones Bshea mentions on his blocks are cherry picked to sound "crazy." There will be a hundred "people's movement assemblies" on a vast array of issues and ideas. And on Saturday there will be a national peoples movement assembly. There is also a huge amount of cultural events, art, music, and vendors. This is one of the most diverse events Detroit has ever seen, representing a wide spectrum of people from all across the United States.

Best part? The USSF hired 20 or so private security types [[dressed in combat boots, urban-pattern camouflage and wearing tactical web gear) from a local company to protect them ... from purse snatchers and any opposition, according to the security firm's spokesman. I guess they figured violence was possible. There are also maybe a hundred Detroit cops there.

To protect them, apparently, from the one guy dressed in 18th century Tea Party gear.

Have you seen the security they had at the RNC? Or how about the DNC? They terrorized protesters, arresting them and putting them on buses to be held in unknown locations. They instigated and participated in acts of rioting in order to frame the protesters as violent. All the USSF is trying to do here to prevent violence not incite it.

And there is every reason to be concerned with violence. Threats on lives of U.S. senators is just the tip of the iceberg. The right-wing is much more willing to use violence and intimidation and fear to meet their objectives. And you should read up on the history of the civil rights movement, and what happened to influential, outspoken, charismatic leaders who in the CIA's opinion, as well as President Nixon [[but probably Johnson and Kennedy as well), were literally a enemies of the State.

This includes Martin Luther King Jr who was regarded as the most dangerous man in America. Why? Because he was a revolutionary. He wanted the end to all of "militarism, racism and materialism" and specifically said he viewed capitalism as inherently immoral. Today, his legacy has been co-opted by liberals who rewrote the history of MLK to say he was simply working for "integration," when in reality he was working against white supremacy, capitalism and against the U.S.'s wars of aggression such as in Vietnam. But to accept this, and praise him as we do would be counter the very foundation of American society.

But much less known is the hundreds if not thousands of people who gave up their lives in the name of freedom and justice, who were lynched, shot, or beaten to death by average white citizens. Or the many more thousands who were harassed and intimidated with cross burnings or other means of intimidation. Why? Maybe these average white people were afraid of loosing their privilege. They weren't "high up" in societal latter, but at least they were higher up than African-Americans [[of course, that isn't what they called them).


"Another World is Possible; Another U.S. is Necessary; Another Detroit is Happening"

[bartock]

Detroitnerd said:

"Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc. I can hear 'em right outside my office right now."

From what I've seen today, it has been "mainly majorities," many looking college age. Perhaps I'm in the wrong spot [[Fort/Washington). Perhaps the "real" folks will be out later in the week. But, it seems rather touristy right now. Like many of these folks are waiting for the Phish set to start, trying to look like they don't have money .

The website for this event lists lodgings downtown and restaurants to go to, etc. So whatever the agendas, some will be spending money here. Good.

OK they came down Washington Boulevard I guess to wrap the parade up, and from above, they still look mostly "majority." There were a couple of people in a polar bear costume [[running next to a globe costume, which was followed by a Pentagon exemplar that opened up to surround the globe. As Bill Murray would say..."striking.") I'm not sure of their makeup. Mishmash was a perfect description of it. Nobody protesting the protesters, just seemed to be some frustrated people blocked by a parade while trying to drive out of town at 5:00. Didn't see any news trucks, either, but perhaps they were at a different spot.

[Ravine]

"Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc."

Just move the crowd over to Belle Isle and call it the DetroitYES! 2010 Picnic Reprise.

[RealityCheck]

Just move the crowd over to Belle Isle and call it the DetroitYES! 2010 Picnic Reprise.

Good one, Ravine.

[maxx]

Wait, Detroitnerd. You mean to tell me that the "privatize the profits, socialize the risk" strategy isn't working for most of us???

I don't see why people object to having the USSF here.

It's the same refrain from the right we heard all the time during the shrub's admin.: Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[maxx]

But they wouldn't put themselves in a position to be accused of hypocrisy.

Rightwing hypocrisy has been grease for the comedy mills for years.

The United States always has been, and always will he, a free-market capitalist nation [[and yes, I understand that it's technically mixed market, and that we indulge in the common-sense socialism of fire departments, etc.).

Then it's not a free market is it? Although we have come close as the present economic mess will attest.

Any event that advocates moving away from capitalism and free markets to something else -- and the 'something else' that I sense is some sort of fantasy of forced wealth redistribution along egalitarian lines to correct perceived social injustices -- is simply an academic exercise in dangerous intellectual frivolity and little else.

Perceived injustices??? Robert Reich called the Bush tax cuts a reverse Robin Hood
situation. And that was long before the subprime mortgage crisis.

And to maxx's point, I'd say that is this crowd was in charge, we'd be in a far, far more terrible mess than anything that can come out of capitalism. The history of the Far Left is filled with blood-thirsty monsters, gulags, secret police, mass killings, starvation and the tragic failure of collectivist economics [[just like the Far Right, but w/o the collectivism). For every Right-wing tinpot dictator such as Hitler there is Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Geureva, Pol Pot, etc., on the Left.

I don't think anyone at the USSF is advocating some form of authoritarian rule. Reaganomics has done more to turn the US into a banana republic than any amount of leftist talk.

Self-interest and incentives are what drive successful economics.

But capitalism needs regulation to keep the self-interest in check.

Banging drums, tooting horns, screeching on bullhorns, chanting and generally acting like its 1968.

Well, they couldn't get a bunch of marching bands which provides the noise at most parades. Nothing these people do is right as far as you're concerned. Sort of the way the right has treated our president.

[maxx]

Oh, I've engaged communists in the past. For a time, with a rifle.
.

Are you talking about those scrawny, little, dirt poor Vietnamese who had been fighting to rid their country of French colonialism for decades? What evil communists. Someone said it would have been cheaper and smarter to have bought them all off with consumer goods.

[oldredfordette]

Sweet Jeeble that was fun. More today!

[oldredfordette]

No, you're probably right. I'll take it off. But seriously, lighten up.

[Ravine]

Oh, and the security guys were wonderful. They were there to keep us safe from the likes of our proud old commie murderer.

A thoroughly rotten addendum to your previous post.

[oldredfordette]

Oh Ravine, lighten up, honey. How many times in a thread do I need to be called a commie blah blah blah? And the security was great.

[Pam]

"Here's the usual rundown at these sort of events: Vegans, minorities, housing activists, trustifarians, animal rights folks, labor activists, anti-globalization activists, anarkids, hippies, gender and orientation activists, communists, socialists, anarchists, union members, social justice advocates, lawyers, environmental justice advocates, small-media types, etc."

Just move the crowd over to Belle Isle and call it the DetroitYES! 2010 Picnic Reprise.

Does this mean you aren't coming next year either?

[Pam]

Sweet Jeeble that was fun. More today!

Can you give us a little more detail?

[BShea]

Ravine: I'm used to sleazy cheap shots from the intellectual low-rent district. No biggie.

Here's my take today [[including photos) on yesterday's USSF parade:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/shea

The quotes at the end are spot-on in calling these people out.

[English]

Look, at this point, I don't really care if the GOP, the Tea Party, or even Glenn Beck held a convention in Detroit if it meant $$$$ for our local businesses.

I don't get the objections to having ANY visitors to our all-too-often half empty CBD spending their cash for hotels and meals. Beggars can't be choosy. Some of the sentiment coming from the capitalists on this thread is pretty anti-capitalist.

[maxx]

Bill Shea's concern about the smell of the paraders is the sort of preciosity and shallowness that sweeps social problems under the rug or into "shelters" and ghettoes and "free speech zones". I wonder how many of the paraders walked from New Orleans. I wonder how the marchers with Martin Luther King smelled at the end of their march.

http://www.ussf2010.org/node/68

" You know how you shield your movement from being defined by an alleged ‘minority of ultra-extremists?’ You purge the ultra-extremists."

If the Republican party today purged their extremists, there wouldn't be a Republican party.

"...In related forum developments, the notion of tolerance and solidarity appears to be fractured a bit: A consortium of pro-gay Arab groups is angry [[link) that the pro-Israel group Stand With Us has apparently been invited to USSF..."

Yes, you wouldn't have found such dissension in the Republican Party in the past. The National Conventions were little more than coronations of candidates while they sniggered at the messiness of Democratic conventions. And today party "discipline" in the GOP reminds one of the old USSR 's party where criticism of the party was not tolerated.

[iheartthed]

Wealth is good. A lawyer making $500,000 will pay $100,000 at least in taxes that will go to roads, schools, police, etc. Community organizers making nothing will contribute nothing in that vein.

Just because I make a million dollars doesn't mean you can't make money. Wealth is endless.

That is fundamentally incorrect. And I suspect that you don't agree with yourself here either. Otherwise, you'd be openly advocating that the treasury start indiscriminately rolling the printing presses and handing every U.S. citizen a check for $50M as a cure to American poverty.

Wealth is finite, and is based on the resources we have available that humans deem as valuable.

[BShea]

That is fundamentally incorrect. And I suspect that you don't agree with yourself here either. Otherwise, you'd be openly advocating that the treasury start indiscriminately rolling the printing presses and handing every U.S. citizen a check for $50M as a cure to American poverty.

Wealth is finite, and is based on the resources we have available that humans deem as valuable.

I don't have time to get into Econ 101, but you're confusing wealth with printing money. Not the same thing. The government doesn't create wealth. Printing money isn't creating wealth. It is a sure-fire way to spark massive inflation, as we'll be finding out in this country soon enough.

Wealth is NOT finite. Just because I have some does NOT mean you get nothing.

[Detroitnerd]

Wealth is NOT finite. Just because I have some does NOT mean you get nothing.

Yes, because the planet Earth isn't some closed loop, it goes on forever and ever. In a world of infinite resources, everybody can become infinitely wealthy.

Oh, wait. That totally doesn't make sense. Sorry.

[BShea]

Look, at this point, I don't really care if the GOP, the Tea Party, or even Glenn Beck held a convention in Detroit if it meant $$$$ for our local businesses.

I don't get the objections to having ANY visitors to our all-too-often half empty CBD spending their cash for hotels and meals. Beggars can't be choosy. Some of the sentiment coming from the capitalists on this thread is pretty anti-capitalist.

I don't think anyone is objecting to them coming here and spending their money while they preach to each other. Spend away. Bang your little drums. But don't think for a moment that anyone in a position of power or influence will give this a second's serious thought.

These are not serious people. Or, they are certainly humorless and zealous in their causes, but they're the fringe. No one is seriously going to consider these people in the national discussion about our social issues. Demanding nationalization of General Motors and reparations for minorities ... please.

This is a bunch of teenage political babble. And no one watched the parade.