Kwame to the Hotel Hamtramack? Kilpatrick Gets 1.5 to 5 Years

[R8RBOB]

If I heard the news correctly, he has to pay the money back in order to be eligible for release sooner than 5 years [[i.e. he'll "magically" come up with the money).

Not going to happen. If he don't have the money, he don't have the money and he will get out in 14 months because we don't lock people up because we can't pay our debts.

[Ravine]

I do hope that the group of earlier posters that was waving pom-poms and wanting to fire up a "Groner for God!!" drive did not include any of the much-earlier crowd of posters who were sneeringly implying that Groner was being a wuss and probably "on the take."

I believed, from the outset, that he was measuring his moves carefully so as to be in position to take a firm stand, later, with less fear of reversal.
For once, I had something right. I'm glad that it happened in this particular instance.

[punky1]

Ravine, I think you may be right. Groner may have planned this all along, letting out enough rope along the way to see if they tried to continue to abuse, knowing if that was the way they wanted to play the game, then he had planned a surprise for them and most of us. I have to admit I sure had my doubts about him, but after that decision today, the way he methodically layed it all out, one thing after another, I feel confident he knew all along where he was headed. Kwame's plea just fell right into place too. You could not have scripted it better. I would love to know what Groner was writing while Kwame begged. That may be the way he works. He works with the person but if they want to mess with him and the system he takes 'em down.

[smogboy]

I agree that Ravine nailed it. Kym Worthy also said it too in her press release. Groner gave Kwame ample time and space to get his affairs in order. And when he didn't, there were repercussions. I don't think there was a pre-set agenda here. If anything Groner was possibly too sympathetic from the on-set and when his guidelines were disregarded, the judge dropped the hammer down. Seriously I wasn't shocked at all by the outcome. Sooner or later, Kwame was going to answer for his misdeeds.

One thing that I keep on hearing from some of the media and such that I'm going to have to pick a bone with is how they portray Kwame as a bright individual, he's got a law degree, and how smart he is. Maybe it's just me, but the his plea in court today didn't show any of that intellect.

-"And, oftentimes, when I read about myself, or read about that person, or when I hear about it from the media, I’m extraordinarily confused because it’s not me." Okay Kwame, then who is this guy? Because obviously he's guilty.

-"I was not going to do this, but I think I have to. I cheated on my wife, Your Honor" Is this the first time he admitted to this? We've all saw his televised plea for forgiveness from Carlita but I don't ever recall him asking to be forgiven for anything specifically.

-"I spent a whole year feeling an enormous amount of guilt for what I did to my wife, my children and this city. And I still feel it." Then be a man and accept the responsibility of that guilt; quietly go to jail, serve your time and be contrite about it.

-"This prosecutor continues to prosecute that guy — the guy in the text messages. Over and over again in this city, every time I come I’m the guy in the text messages. And it has put a pause on everything. That’s not me anymore." Speaking in the third person now?

-"I’ve never willfully violated anything from this court." Being late with agreed upon payments and being sentenced on parole violations speaks volumes. Kwame- this is the exact reason you're going to jail!

-"In my stupidity, and know I know it is stupidity, and I can’t be the first man that did this, but probably the most known, I tried to buy my way back in; an overabundance of presents." All the meanwhile pleading poverty too. Another major self indictment here.

-"But Your Honor you never have to worry about me committing a crime. You will never have to worry about me being a danger to my community. You don’t ever have to worry about me and my family in stuff that happens there. I’m not here because of a gun charge or a dope charge. I’m not here because of a drunk and disorder or a drunk driving or even a speeding ticket." Being a white collar criminal and stealing from the citizens of Detroit is just as heinous and a danger to the welfare of this area.

-"So, I respectfully, humbly ask with everything that is in me to be free. To continue to be on probation." Like Kym Worthy said- probation is a privilege. Kwame obviously pushed the bounds of it, looked for loopholes and tried to exploit the system again.

I guess to me, bright people atone for their mistakes. Intelligent people make mistakes and are willing to make amends. I question why Kwame and his supposed brilliance missed this. He grew up in a politically savvy family; where were they to help guide him through the brambles and give him a sense of morality?

[punky1]

Even though I said Groner may have planned this all along, I didn't mean it that way. Just that in a generic way, he has a way of dealing with folks on probation etc., in his own structured way, to reach a final conclusion with all the loose ends finally tied up so when he is finally done it will be a "good luck on appeal" for those who just don't get the hint about what justice is all about. It was very frustrating to watch the process though. He has a LOT of patience.

[Roq]

Not going to happen. If he don't have the money, he don't have the money and he will get out in 14 months because we don't lock people up because we can't pay our debts.

Michigan courts lock people up all the time for not paying debts; try not paying your child support and see what happens.

[Ravine]

I agree with Smogboy. I don't see KK as being all that bright, either. Sometimes, around here, if a person is reasonably articulate and has some savvy, or "street smarts," or whatever, the general public-- itself none too bright-- jumps to the hasty conclusion that the person is intelligent.
Kilpatrick isn't stupid, but he's as close to stupid as he is to intelligent.
As for some of the absurd remarks which he uttered yesterday, it is instructive to bear in mind that once a person who has fucked up gets on the path toward "turning over a new leaf" [[which I do not, at all, believe is the case, here,) they reach a point where they feel an inner separation from the person who fucked up, ie. "I'm not that guy."
However, even if we allow ourselves to believe that he has tried to change, his "I'm not that guy" statement shows only partial progress toward inner rehabilitation; true rehabilitation should include the willingness to see, accept, and admit that actually, yeah, you are "that guy," and the stuff "that guy" did is the stuff for which you are responsible, even if you want to envision yourself as being a Brand New Man.
Of course, none of that truly applies here, anyway, because he's a lying bag of shit who didn't mean a goddam word of any of that manure. The snivelling punk-ass was doing nothing more than some last-minute orational-squirming [["I said I wasn't gonna do this, but..." ...uh-huh, you didn't mentally rehearse that horseshit, right right) in exactly the same way a kid makes a last-ditch plea to forestall an ass-whuppin' from one of his parents.

[Meddle]

Not going to happen. If he don't have the money, he don't have the money and he will get out in 14 months because we don't lock people up because we can't pay our debts.

He DOES have the money and everybody KNOWS he has it. He's been lying about that all along trying to scam the court. And even if he has just squandered it, his family has it.

[Ravine]

Assuming that Monica is actually sent to jail this summer, both Detroit congresspersons will have a relative in jail. This may be a record.

As I am known to say, in response to stuff like that:

Cripes!!

[exmotowner]

When Kwame is released from incarceration, I'll bet my two bucks that he takes another shot at office. Think about Marion Barry's antics. Here's a guy that Kilpatrick can take a lot of inspiration from...Do the crime, Do the time, Come on back! Just watch...

I've thought the same thing too. I actually believe that he would get re-elected if he ran again. He was elected a second term and everyone knew what he was up to then. Would not shock me at all if he got re-elected.

[Ravine]

I concur. Disgust me? Oh, yes. Surprise me? Not at all.

[punky1]

Two things: [[1)During kwame's begging it seemed as if he still has a high opinion of himself and how important he still thinks he is. Anyway [[2) Attorney Griem, who WDIV tends to go to for information, says he believes the feds will come down with indictments before summer is over. If this is true, are the feds targeting a time frame just before primary elections? Look out Carolyn C-K?

[Zacha341]

You've made several compelling points...

KK made a choice not to pay his restitution and live big and large. After all how many felons get a six-figure job and the chance to relocate and retain family and household? Mr. Kilpatrick was determined not to pay... and the final fallout has happened. As the expression goes "the cheap comes out expensive". VERY EXPENSIVE.

I always loathed the media and city "click and tick" initially fawning over KK back in the early enthronement days with all that condescending "he speaks so well", he's so "brilliant" junk. As though it's an anomaly that a young black man could have a law degree or a certain level of accomplishments etc. Flash forward to the present: Kilpatrick cannot have it both ways, the same folks who thought he was stupid in the first place [[withstanding their praise) are further convinced he's very "stupid"! So whatever pose of self-deprecation he attempted to erect in his plea fell doubly flat.

Who were all those goon lawyers and PR people he had around him for? What ADVICE DID THEY GIVE? Keep lying it will be alright? I think they [[and his continued enterage) kept a neon sign flashing in front of him at 1,000 watt: "YOU ARE BEING OPPRESSED and DONE WRONG... so do what you want from that elevated position. It will save you."

It DID NOT!

And what of his own legal understanding of the limitation of how far one can violated the terms of a probation EVEN for the privileged! A privileged status he faught to maintain, at the cost of not paying his restitution!! Giving the impression that he resented the idea in the first place?

As I've stated before he went into the process poised for an exit. Most people who have a probation case will make an "attempt" to pay for the first couple of years, then maybe seek some kind of adjustment later... perhaps the "privileged" have more access to these kinds of adaptations over the average joe. Too bad KK did not consider that option instead of all the financial subterfuge to avoid paying...

Kilpatrick was never about playing by the rules of "normal" convicted people, some of which are the same folks that he says he has empathy for...[[yeah right). He even wanted his felony record expunged at the BEGINNING! A process that is A. done "after" your probation is over, B. you can only have one felony expunged per life time in Michigan [[he has two felonies)...

So nope. He is not "stupid" as he claimed, and his reference that he acted in "stupidity" well not serve him well or his legacy.

And too many of his lies were easy to reveal, obvious lies to any ears, as was the case which lead him to yesterdays sentencing. Duh. He made choices, and more choices that compounded the previous choices and lies as the judge stated. Some of his pleas comments were the usual boiler plate stuff eluding to the idea that he was not a "real" criminal like those with a gun charge. Yah-dah...

And his bringing up the cheating on his wife is just another signal to his "die hard" supporters that he is going to jail ONLY because he cheating on his wife. So no he still does not get it. The ultimate estimate to intelligence and character is to learn from mistakes, instead of all the mind games self-applied and promoted; where realities are so distorted even people outside of yourself share them.

Now his lawyer is talking the "racism" slick stuff... yacking on about how all blacks support Kilpatrick. Well that is not true! And we don't need HIS lawyers his race pandering to some up our opinion for his clients defense.

I agree that Ravine nailed it. Kym Worthy also said it too in her press release. Groner gave Kwame ample time and space to get his affairs in order. And when he didn't, there were repercussions. I don't think there was a pre-set agenda here. If anything Groner was possibly too sympathetic from the on-set and when his guidelines were disregarded, the judge dropped the hammer down. Seriously I wasn't shocked at all by the outcome. Sooner or later, Kwame was going to answer for his misdeeds.

One thing that I keep on hearing from some of the media and such that I'm going to have to pick a bone with is how they portray Kwame as a bright individual, he's got a law degree, and how smart he is. Maybe it's just me, but the his plea in court today didn't show any of that intellect.

-"And, oftentimes, when I read about myself, or read about that person, or when I hear about it from the media, I’m extraordinarily confused because it’s not me." Okay Kwame, then who is this guy? Because obviously he's guilty.

-"I was not going to do this, but I think I have to. I cheated on my wife, Your Honor" Is this the first time he admitted to this? We've all saw his televised plea for forgiveness from Carlita but I don't ever recall him asking to be forgiven for anything specifically.

-"I spent a whole year feeling an enormous amount of guilt for what I did to my wife, my children and this city. And I still feel it." Then be a man and accept the responsibility of that guilt; quietly go to jail, serve your time and be contrite about it.

-"This prosecutor continues to prosecute that guy — the guy in the text messages. Over and over again in this city, every time I come I’m the guy in the text messages. And it has put a pause on everything. That’s not me anymore." Speaking in the third person now?

-"I’ve never willfully violated anything from this court." Being late with agreed upon payments and being sentenced on parole violations speaks volumes. Kwame- this is the exact reason you're going to jail!

-"In my stupidity, and know I know it is stupidity, and I can’t be the first man that did this, but probably the most known, I tried to buy my way back in; an overabundance of presents." All the meanwhile pleading poverty too. Another major self indictment here.

-"But Your Honor you never have to worry about me committing a crime. You will never have to worry about me being a danger to my community. You don’t ever have to worry about me and my family in stuff that happens there. I’m not here because of a gun charge or a dope charge. I’m not here because of a drunk and disorder or a drunk driving or even a speeding ticket." Being a white collar criminal and stealing from the citizens of Detroit is just as heinous and a danger to the welfare of this area.

-"So, I respectfully, humbly ask with everything that is in me to be free. To continue to be on probation." Like Kym Worthy said- probation is a privilege. Kwame obviously pushed the bounds of it, looked for loopholes and tried to exploit the system again.

I guess to me, bright people atone for their mistakes. Intelligent people make mistakes and are willing to make amends. I question why Kwame and his supposed brilliance missed this. He grew up in a politically savvy family; where were they to help guide him through the brambles and give him a sense of morality?

[Meddle]

Somebody would have to check Michigan election laws. Barry was only convicted of a Misdemeanor. Kwame' was convicted of a felony, no? Don't you lose your right to vote when that happens? If you can't vote, you can't run for office, right?

[jcole]

This is from Brigham Young University Law Review, 2003

States that link qualification for office to voter qualifications
Seventeen states and the District of Columbia link the right to run for office directly to the right to vote. Thus, if the right to vote is automatically restored, so is the right to run for office. Maine, for example, requires the candidate to be a registered voter, but since inmates can vote, no one convicted of a felony is barred from running for office. Some states, on the other hand, do not automatically restore the right to vote. Arizona requires a candidate to be a qualified elector [[voter), and a convicted felon in Arizona must go through certain procedures to have his right to vote restored. Other states linking qualification for office to voter qualifications include Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. In these states, the right to run for public office depends on whether the convicted felon is restored the right to vote.

And this is from National Council of State Legislatures

Michigan
Automatically restored upon release from confinement; felon must register to vote.

So, if Kwame registers to vote after he's released, he can run for office in Michigan.
The rules vary state to state. To run in Texas, he would have to have his civil rights restored by reason of pardon or expunging of his record.

[Zacha341]

Michigan unlike other states in country DOES allow you to retain your ability to vote with a felony. You can call the Texas does not. That ability to vote in Michigan, Detroit was a huge news items back during the last presidential election. You can call the city clerks office for details on this: 313.224.3260

Somebody would have to check Michigan election laws. Barry was only convicted of a Misdemeanor. Kwame' was convicted of a felony, no? Don't you lose your right to vote when that happens? If you can't vote, you can't run for office, right?

[Zacha341]

Yep expungement a of felony is difficult and in most states you can only have 'one' felony per lifetime removed. Kilpatrick has two felonies...

This is from Brigham Young University Law Review, 2003

And this is from National Council of State Legislatures

So, if Kwame registers to vote after he's released, he can run for office in Michigan.
The rules vary state to state. To run in Texas, he would have to have his civil rights restored by reason of pardon or expunging of his record.

[R8RBOB]

Somebody would have to check Michigan election laws. Barry was only convicted of a Misdemeanor. Kwame' was convicted of a felony, no? Don't you lose your right to vote when that happens? If you can't vote, you can't run for office, right?

It varies from state to state if a felon can vote. As for Detroit, the current city charter does not bar a felon from running for public office. In last year city council races, one of the candidates was a convicted murderer. If Kwame ever wanted to run, he could run in Detroit, but the AG could bar him claiming that he committed his crimes while in office therefore he would be ineligible to hold the office. Cox was going to attempt to remove Monica Conyers from her seat on the council using state law if she didn't resign from the council voluntary.

[Zacha341]

LOL! He'd have do more than that to run in Texas... even in Dallas or Houston. He does not have the "click and tick" power brokering and fervent devotees down there. Not at all.

This is from Brigham Young University Law Review, 2003

And this is from National Council of State Legislatures

So, if Kwame registers to vote after he's released, he can run for office in Michigan.
The rules vary state to state. To run in Texas, he would have to have his civil rights restored by reason of pardon or expunging of his record.

[biketech]

Who is the woman in the white sheets thats always in the court room?

[bartock]

Ravine I agreed with everything you've said above. I think this statement is particularly appropriate:
"Kilpatrick isn't stupid, but he's as close to stupid as he is to intelligent." That, plus Kwame's arrogance/entitlement mentality is what is beginning to bring the McNamara House of Cards down. I cringe when people refer to him as a lawyer, because he is no more a lawyer than Monica Conyers. I've always thought it was interesting that Kwame did not have a law license until BAM! right before he became mayor, and several years after graduating from DCL, he passed the bar exam as though he crammed the night before.

As for Ms. Jackson - another McNamara weed. Not directly, but she worked under Virgil Smith, Kilpatrick buddy who had the support of Mike Duggan to be prosecutor when he left to go to the DMC. Of course, the judges disagreed and put Worthy in, who was subsequently elected when Duggan's term was served. Smoke, smoke, smoke.

[Detwa]

Was Carlita ever deposed regarding the T. Greene case? I remember Yatooma trying to get that to happen a few months ago. I was thinking, now would be a great time to get that deposition, with KK out of the way, he can't coach her, she would be a nervous wreck without him. I say she's going to be very vulnerable for the next 14 months!

Can someone answer this - a coworker insists that KK will not even do 14 months. He says that because its a non-violent offense, as soon as he gets to his destination, he can apply for something that will allow him to go to a halfway house for the remainder of his time. Does anyone know about that?

[mikefmich]

Not going to happen. If he don't have the money, he don't have the money and he will get out in 14 months because we don't lock people up because we can't pay our debts.

Ummm, no. Your understanding of the system is a little flawed.

True....we no longer have debtors prison, but court ordered payments, particularly as a condition of parole is a tad different.

[mikefmich]

Just caught this in the Detroit news. A little advice for Kwame from our very own Denny McClain. Talk about irony and pot meeting kettle.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...go-at-the-door-

[Meddle]

There are always ways for people to try and get out early, but when you flat out piss off the Judge by lying in court about nearly everything, those chances are slim.