Why no shared cars in Detroit?

[iheartthed]

Look at it this way, how many big name car rental places do you know of in Detroit such as Avis, Alamo, Hertz Etc?

If im not mistaken, they are all located out by the airport!

There is an Enterprise car rental lot at Grand River and Archdale on the northwest side of the city. There is also another Enterprise lot on E. Jefferson, I believe near St. Aubin. There are also several rental car counters at the hotels downtown.

[English]

You are mistaken. Google 'car rental Detroit,' and you'll see several name-brand outlets in the CBD and Midtown.

I used the Enterprise in New Center regularly when I lived in Midtown.

[English]

Zipcars are huge with the students in Ann Arbor. The fleet is based on the University's North Campus.

Most undergrads and a lot of the foreign students don't have their own cars in Ann Arbor and available Zipcars, or even traditional rental cars, are hard to find during any holiday student exodus.

I drive around Ann Arbor on a daily basis. I just don't see a lot of ZipCars around. Are they just used for out-of-town trips?

[texorama]

I drive around Ann Arbor on a daily basis. I just don't see a lot of ZipCars around. Are they just used for out-of-town trips?

You see them in downtown AA from time to time, where the city Zipcars are housed. The spaces where they're parked are vacant more often than not. The ones on campus are probably used mostly to get out of town, since there are cheaper ways to get around. AFAIK the campus cars are not in any way part of the U-M fleet, but there is some kind of special arrangement with the university with those -- if you sign up, you have to specify whether you're affiliated with the university.

I think they could work in Detroit downtown in the vicinity of the high-rises. Wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

[iheartthed]

I drive around Ann Arbor on a daily basis. I just don't see a lot of ZipCars around. Are they just used for out-of-town trips?

I saw several Zip Cars when I was in Ann Arbor about three weeks ago. I would assume that most people use them to go for grocery runs, or to take care of other errands where the public transit system would be inconvenient [[or unable to accommodate). They could also be used to pick up friends from the airport, make quick day trips to visit relatives [[for students who are from the area), etc.

[English]

^ That must be it. I don't live anywhere near the campus areas, but nearer Ypsi, where rents are cheap.

All my grad student friends either own a car or take the AATA bus. You can't afford to rent a car on $15-20K a year. The bus system here is excellent. But of course, I don't know what the undergrads are doing in their spare time. Very interesting info, thanks for the heads-up.

[wolverine]

I don't know what the undergrads are doing in their spare time.

They walk to things. Like movie theaters, restaurants, cafes, museums, clubs, bars, and retail. All within 10-15 minutes of any dorm or student hood. Not sure what you'd do in your spare time in the burbs. But that's just my opinion...and well...95% of undergraduates' opinions as well..

[iheartthed]

^ That must be it. I don't live anywhere near the campus areas, but nearer Ypsi, where rents are cheap.

All my grad student friends either own a car or take the AATA bus. You can't afford to rent a car on $15-20K a year. The bus system here is excellent. But of course, I don't know what the undergrads are doing in their spare time. Very interesting info, thanks for the heads-up.

Well, Zip Car leaves the cars in lots and structures in or near the University of Michigan's campus, so the biggest reason that people who live near Ypsi probably don't use them as much is lack of access. I would scan the parking lots at Meijer or Target the next time you go shopping. You'll probably see one or two parked out there.

Zip Car is a much cheaper alternative to owning a car, if you only need to drive infrequently, since you can rent them by the hour. You also aren't responsible for filling the gas tank or insuring it, which isn't the case with a traditional rental car.

When I lived in Ann Arbor, I owned a car but could very well have lived without it. I would usually only drive it the mile from where I lived to the student parking lot, and leave it parked there all day. I would either walk or use the university bus system to travel around campus. Every two weeks or so I might have made a trip to Meijer for a grocery run, which I could have used the ZipCar to do at a much cheaper cost than owning my own car.

[English]

They walk to things. Like movie theaters, restaurants, cafes, museums, clubs, bars, and retail. All within 10-15 minutes of any dorm or student hood. Not sure what you'd do in your spare time in the burbs. But that's just my opinion...and well...95% of undergraduates' opinions as well..

Yep, that's how my grad student friends who live in Kerrytown or the Old West Side live as well. They rarely move their cars.

I think the only places to have that kind of lifestyle in the region are Ann Arbor, Ferndale, Royal Oak, and now [[for most things) Midtown Detroit. Given what I've learned on this thread about people using them, I could see ZipCars succeeding there.

[wolverine]

Definitely. Not to mention Kerrytown had difficult to find parking. It seemed if you moved your car, you were stuck searching for a space for over an hour.

[fryar]

In another thread, the following was posted in a completely unrelated context with regard to my complaint that, while living and working downtown, my car insurance did not take into account that I rarely drove:

For someone like you that rarely drives it would be nice if there were a policy that was based on verifiable mileage driven. Actually, I've heard something about that recently but I don't know if it exists around here.

In Michigan, the closest you can come that I know of is the Progressive "Snapshot", where a modified Davis Car Chip is attached to your OBD II port. As you drive, it periodically sends updates to the progressive server about your driving habits via the cell phone network - how much you drive, what time of day you drive, how fast you drive, how often you have "hard brakes", stuff like that. If you never brake hard, never slip over 75 MPH, never drive during periods when accidents are more likely to occur [[they send you a chart), etc etc, you can save up to 25% off your premium.

Right up my alley by virtue of taking advantage of not being, in actuality, in the paper, pencil and slide rule era, and actually taking advantage of the data crunching power of computers in order to determine my rate based on details actually relevant to ascertaining the risk I present. The drivers around me play into that, of course, but traditional methods overweight them because, let's face it, my ZIP Code is a poor proxy at best.

Worth noting: Progressive *claims*, at least, that they do not do GPS tracking, have a secret webcam on the device, etc. I see no reason to disbelieve them. Outside of Michigan, Snapshot is available in some other states as well, but not all, I believe.

In Texas, the very progressive MileMeter insurance program does charge you by the mile. They had to get the legislature to pass something called the "cents-per-mile choice law" to make this possible. That's right, antiquated legislation from ancient times actually got in the way of using computers to do things smarter and better. Facepalm, anyone?

Similarly, California is pretty unique in updating its legislation to permit insurance companies no-brainers made possible through the miracle of computing, namely P2P car sharing. A few other states, Massachusetts and Oregon among them, have similar laws on the books or in consideration, but it's far from normal. Traditional legislation apparently leaves unanswered the question of insurance coverage in situations where a car owner permits a licensed driver to rent their car on an hourly basis while the owner is not going to use it [[during the workday, say). Under the new CA law, which went into effect January 1 2011, it is possible to engage a middleman website on which both parties register and which handles things like scheduling. A portion of the fee paid by the borrower covers the hourly insurance, and a portion goes to the car's owner.

This seems, on the surface, like a very easy way to address inefficient land use in dense environments due to the walkability's competiton for land with "slummy" surface lots, etc. etc., that whole bag. Creates something akin to infrastructure that makes the rehabilitation of abandoned structures without attached parking into residential units a little more viable.

You'll get some people who will do this, and presto, instant infrastructure.

[milesdriven]

Seeing how high insurance costs are for personal vehicles, I can imagine that insurance on a shared car would be somewhere in the ballpark of $384,000 annually.

[fryar]

That would indeed be prohibitive. Hopefully, that's unrealistic. ;-)

Also, in rebuttal ;-), seeing as how little time people actually spend in their cars, most of the hundreds of dollars some people are throwing at their cars every month are being spent to not drive the thing, but for it to just exist and take up space, so there's some kind of clever line about waste I could try to put together.

If insurance basically doubles in a fleet situation, say, that's significantly more expensive insurance. But you have to weigh that against the additional fixed cost of renting your own parking space and making your own car payment instead of paying your share of a collective cost.

It would be helpful if the insurance could be broken down by mile driven or hour spent in the car, which is no longer administratively burdensome.

[Roq]

In Michigan, the closest you can come that I know of is the Progressive "Snapshot", where a modified Davis Car Chip is attached to your OBD II port. As you drive, it periodically sends updates to the progressive server about your driving habits via the cell phone network - how much you drive, what time of day you drive, how fast you drive, how often you have "hard brakes", stuff like that. If you never brake hard, never slip over 75 MPH, never drive during periods when accidents are more likely to occur [[they send you a chart), etc etc, you can save up to 25% off your premium.
.

Just a word of caution if you decide to use this; I used to use it and it damaged some wiring in my car [['08 Cobalt). The gas gauge needle was freaking out, the heater fan was stopping then running full blast..Thank God it was still under warranty. The dealership directly attributed it to using this device.

[j to the jeremy]

I have a good source who knows that Zipcars will be in Midtown by next year.

[fryar]

Just a word of caution if you decide to use this; I used to use it and it damaged some wiring in my car [['08 Cobalt). The gas gauge needle was freaking out, the heater fan was stopping then running full blast..Thank God it was still under warranty. The dealership directly attributed it to using this device.

I appreciate the warning, but I used it in MI and DC, and in both places, it worked fine and did not interfere with anything. Isn't that what the ODB is there for in the first place, as a communication port that talks to electronic device.

I have a good source who knows that Zipcars will be in Midtown by next year.

My job is done here.

[fryar]

I have a good source who knows that Zipcars will be in Midtown by next year.

They don't usually have a lot of - scratch that - they often don't have any US makes at their locations. Somebody's in for a rude awakening.