Religious conversion and marriage

**Sstashmoo** · May-28-10, 08:46 AM

Quote: "You are trying to rewrite history."

Aren't you an Atheist? Now you're an expert on religion, which is it? What I'm saying here is the truth. Any theologian will tell you the same thing.

Quote: "Then who is that guy hanging on the cross I've seen in Catholic churches?"

I know who he is and what his purpose was. I doubt many in that Church know, if they do they sure don't talk about it much. Now if you want to know about his Mom, they will be more than happy to discuss. That and the "immaculate conception".

Catholicism has done more to discourage new believers than it has done to draw them to the Word of God. If a person is not raised with those teachings, it becomes quite clear and in short order, it's all nonsense. The Bible is quite clear on that as well. One of Jesus' commands was to spread the Gospel and be fishers of men. Does the Catholic church have any sort of outreach? No it's an exclusionary religious club. The problems that have befell the Catholic church as of late, the exposing of them for what they are was inevitable.

**rb336** · May-28-10, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Yes, I have. For damn near 32 years. Which is why I can, with confidence, make the statements I have on this thread.

There was this guy, we'll call him "JC". Gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to his buddy Simon Peter.

Simon Peter becomes the first Pope, beginning in A.D. 30.

That's how the Christian, er Catholic, Church was founded.

Fin.

sheesh. when ws the catholic church as we know it constituted? 29 popes by 300 a.d.? I doubt it

**Pam** · May-28-10, 09:52 AM

Aren't you an Atheist? Now you're an expert on religion, which is it? What I'm saying here is the truth. Any theologian will tell you the same thing.

I didn't say I'm an expert on religion. I can read though, and any history of religion book will tell you that the Catholic church has its roots in the first Christians. Sorry dude, that's just a fact. Your dogma is blinding you to the facts. I don't have that problem.

Anyway, haven't you heard of ecumenism? Embrace your fellow believers of all kinds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical

**Sstashmoo** · May-28-10, 10:19 AM

Quote: "any history of religion book will tell you that the Catholic church has its roots in the first Christians."

History is largely myth agreed upon. "Roman Catholic" religion existed in the time of Jesus, it was not until 300 AD that Catholicism associated itself with Christianity. The Catholic Church as we know it today was started by Constantine in or around 300 AD.

checkraisej · May-28-10, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "where those ideas came from is not relevant "

Go read the forum rules

Now you're wrong on two things. Way gloss over how wrong you are on the first part, though. You're wrong on the whole christianity thing, too. Every single person here is telling you that you are wrong, historical facts tell you that you are wrong, yet you continue to stomp and cry about being right. What color is the sky ib your world? I've never come across someone who is so delusional.

**Sstashmoo** · May-28-10, 11:51 AM

Quote: " Every single person here is telling you that you are wrong, historical facts tell you that you are wrong,"

So

Quote: "yet you continue to stomp and cry about being right."

I thought it was more of a casual cavalier manner, I'll have to work on that.

Quote: " I've never come across someone who is so delusional. "

Good.

Stosh · May-28-10, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: " Every single person here is telling you that you are wrong, historical facts tell you that you are wrong,"

So

Quote: "yet you continue to stomp and cry about being right."

I thought it was more of a casual cavalier manner, I'll have to work on that.

Quote: " I've never come across someone who is so delusional. "

Good.

If casual cavalier manner is what you call it then I guess I'd have to suggest to the Cleveland Cavaliers that they change their name.
Who knew that cavalier = [[insert the usual descriptive insult here, or maybe ~~~~~~~)

checkraisej · May-28-10, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

" Every single person here is telling you that you are wrong, historical facts tell you that you are wrong,"

So

This pretty much sums up any conversation with Sstashmoo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh33bGAxl58

**Sstashmoo** · May-29-10, 05:58 AM

Who is this checkraiseej?? 13 posts and they are already snappin at my ankles.. That video is funny,,

Stosh · May-29-10, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by checkraisej

This pretty much sums up any conversation with Sstashmoo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh33bGAxl58

That I agree with totally.

**maxx** · May-29-10, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

My brand of Christianity is based on the Word of God, how can anything supersede that? When Jesus spoke to men, he spoke to them as individuals, and stressed to them a personal relationship with our heavenly Father.

Maxx: Just your beliefs.

S: A relationship free of man's influence or control. He didn't want the faith of his followers placed in the hands of men.

Maxx: So you believe Jesus actually said all the things the gospels report he said except for
"Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church."

S: It's amazing so many cannot grasp that. Too wound up in "you must do this" and "you must belong to this group" and "you most follow these rituals and customs" "You must act this way" It's all Pagan and phony.

maxx: The Mass is based on the sacrifices of the ancient Jewish high priests. So your church doesn't have any sort of ritual/Eucharist, singing? Pagans had ritual meals and they sang. It's hard not to do what the pagans did. They wore sandals too.

S: And quite frankly a lie straight from down under [[not Australia) meant to confuse, discourage and lead astray.

maxx: It's the 21st century. What verifiable evidence do you have that any sort of devils or angels exist?

**Sstashmoo** · May-29-10, 12:30 PM

maxx wrote: "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church."

"Hi Maxx, right here is where I'm going to build my restaurant" Does this sound like I'm telling you to build a restaurant, and name it after yourself?

**maxx** · May-29-10, 01:11 PM

Sstashmoo:Roman Catholic" religion existed in the time of Jesus...

maxx: Citation?

Stosh · May-29-10, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

maxx wrote: "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church."

"Hi Maxx, right here is where I'm going to build my restaurant" Does this sound like I'm telling you to build a restaurant, and name it after yourself?

He called him Peter, his original name being Simon. Peter, in the original language, was literally meant as rock.

By your comments it sounds as if you doubt the words as well.
If you do, what makes you so sure that the rest of the Bible is authentic?

**maxx** · May-29-10, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

maxx wrote: "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church."

"Hi Maxx, right here is where I'm going to build my restaurant" Does this sound like I'm telling you to build a restaurant, and name it after yourself?

So you think Jesus was talking literally about a rock? The name Peter means rock at least in Latin. I don't think we have any gospels copies written in Aramaic.

**EMG** · May-29-10, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

I have attended a good number of weddings in the last several years where one of the newlyweds converted from one religion to another. What I don’t understand that it was always a Christian converting to either Islam or Judaism. You never hear of a Jew or a Muslim converting to Christianity to marry their loved one. Why is that? What makes Christianity so "flexible" with regards to converting?

There have been a lot of strong posts and a lot of religion-bashing in this thread so far. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Christian who was raised Catholic, but left Catholicism in my late teens. I base my current beliefs strictly upon what I've read in the Bible.

So here are some of the things the Bible says which I believe are applicable to this topic:

In 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, Paul writes:

12But to the rest [[K)I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.

13And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are [[L)holy.

15Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

Note that this passage begins with Paul issuing a disclaimer - "I say, not the Lord" - he is giving his personal opinion, not claiming to have received an absolute divine revelation on the manner.

In this passage I believe the woman he is using as an example is someone who was not a Christian at the time she became married - she accepted Jesus after marriage. The passage says that she should not divorce her husband as long as he is willing to remain married to her - but that if he decides to leave her, she should let him go.

As far as not-yet-married people who have already become Christians getting married to non-Christians, the closest thing to a direct Bible teaching may well be 2 Corinthians 6:14:

14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?

If Christians marry, ideally it should be so that and because they can better serve the Lord together than apart. For a Christian to marry an unbeliever would be to hinder, not help, his/her own relationship with the Lord - and that would not be a good thing. A Christian is indeed called to go out into the world amongst unbelievers and be an example to help draw them to Christ - but that is in no way a call to make an unbeliever their lifetime marriage partner.

Now, with regard to the original question: Christianity is not "flexible" in this regard. If someone converts out of Christianity to marry a non-Christian, obviously they are choosing to abandon their Christianity. The fact that you happen to have observed a preponderance of Christians, rather than Jews or Moslems, engaging in that course of action has nothing to do with a relative weakness or leniency of Christianity, but simply a weak level of conviction on the part of those who placed more importance on their prospective marriage partners than on the Jesus in whom they previously professed faith.

checkraisej · May-30-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Who is this checkraiseej?? 13 posts and they are already snappin at my ankles.. That video is funny,,

I've been lurking here for a couple years, but just decided to join.

That video may be funny, but it's also pathetic that it is an accurate depiction of what I've observed most discussions people have had with you to be.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-30-10, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Whats making this discussion confusing and probably confuses a lot of people, Catholic means Christian. It doesn't. In reality Catholicism has very little to do with Christ himself.

Oh, PLEASE DO tell me what Catholics believe!

You're a fucking joke.

And yes, Catholicism is an "exclusive" club, with over one BILLION hoity-toity elitist members. It's only a "club" because you can't just show up and say "Yay, God!" and call yourself a Catholic. It takes a little bit more effort than that.

**terryh** · May-30-10, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

There have been a lot of strong posts and a lot of religion-bashing in this thread so far. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Christian who was raised Catholic, but left Catholicism in my late teens. I base my current beliefs strictly upon what I've read in the Bible.

So here are some of the things the Bible says which I believe are applicable to this topic:

In 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, Paul writes:

Note that this passage begins with Paul issuing a disclaimer - "I say, not the Lord" - he is giving his personal opinion, not claiming to have received an absolute divine revelation on the manner.

In this passage I believe the woman he is using as an example is someone who was not a Christian at the time she became married - she accepted Jesus after marriage. The passage says that she should not divorce her husband as long as he is willing to remain married to her - but that if he decides to leave her, she should let him go.

As far as not-yet-married people who have already become Christians getting married to non-Christians, the closest thing to a direct Bible teaching may well be 2 Corinthians 6:14:

If Christians marry, ideally it should be so that and because they can better serve the Lord together than apart. For a Christian to marry an unbeliever would be to hinder, not help, his/her own relationship with the Lord - and that would not be a good thing. A Christian is indeed called to go out into the world amongst unbelievers and be an example to help draw them to Christ - but that is in no way a call to make an unbeliever their lifetime marriage partner.

Now, with regard to the original question: Christianity is not "flexible" in this regard. If someone converts out of Christianity to marry a non-Christian, obviously they are choosing to abandon their Christianity. The fact that you happen to have observed a preponderance of Christians, rather than Jews or Moslems, engaging in that course of action has nothing to do with a relative weakness or leniency of Christianity, but simply a weak level of conviction on the part of those who placed more importance on their prospective marriage partners than on the Jesus in whom they previously professed faith.

If two humans connect, emothionally-physiologically, the fact that one partner has a belief in the supernatural-and the other does not, shouldnt disallow them to grow together eomotionally-sexually and financially.....there is a science as to why two humans are attracted to the opposite sex....scents-subconcious signals etc....

**jiminnm** · May-30-10, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club.

Some folks need an interpreter. Some folks don't. No one needs an interpreter who decides that they and their message are more important than the message they are supposed to be interpreting.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-30-10, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by jiminnm

Some folks need an interpreter. Some folks don't. No one needs an interpreter who decides that they and their message are more important than the message they are supposed to be interpreting.

Vatican II did away with the need for interpreters when they allowed the Mass to be celebrated in the colloquial language.

**Sstashmoo** · May-30-10, 08:01 PM

Quote: " It's only a club because you can't just show up and say "Yay, God!" and call yourself a Catholic. It takes a little bit more effort than that."

How does Jesus feel about that? Matter of fact, can you find me some scripture that supports such blasphemous ideology?

**Sstashmoo** · May-30-10, 08:04 PM

And as far as rites and ritual, one of the purposes of the messiah was to cleanse the Church, in which he did, rituals are no longer necessary and he said so.

**Sstashmoo** · May-30-10, 08:11 PM

Quote: "Catholicism is an "exclusive" club, with over one BILLION hoity-toity elitist members."

Yes up in your crystal palace on seven hills looking down your nose at everyone that doesn't qualify. Jesus made it very clear, we are all God's children and all fall short. No division in his body of believers. We all became one. Wide is the path, narrow is the way.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-30-10, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Catholicism is an "exclusive" club, with over one BILLION hoity-toity elitist members."

Yes up in your crystal palace on seven hills looking down your nose at everyone that doesn't qualify. Jesus made it very clear, we are all God's children and all fall short. No division in his body of believers. We all became one. Wide is the path, narrow is the way.

Seems like you might want to direct such comments toward members of Protestant and other "Christian" faiths who decided to split from the Church.