Religious conversion and marriage

**oladub** · May-25-10, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club.

Depends on the religion. I am not a Quaker but have been to 'gathered' Friends meetings where I have been meditating about something when to my amazement someone gets up and says exactly what I was thinking without any cues or clues. How does that work? Believe me, Friends meetings are pretty devoid of rites and rituals and even their theology is vague to non-existent; no candles, catechisms, robes, organs, etc..

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 07:58 AM

Quote: "If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club."

If you're performing rites and fail to grasp even the basic understanding of Christianity, that would make no sense. I'm not going to enter in to a debate about Catholicism. I researched it years ago, and it left me with more questions than answers.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club."

If you're performing rites and fail to grasp even the basic understanding of Christianity, that would make no sense. I'm not going to enter in to a debate about Catholicism. I researched it years ago, and it left me with more questions than answers.

And if you fail to grasp that all "Christian" faiths are derived from the Church of St. Peter, then you shouldn't be casting stones, should you?

So, what is it about Christianity that I don't understand?

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 08:14 AM

Quote: "if you fail to grasp that all "Christian" faiths are derived from the Church of St. Peter"

See? I just don't understand where that comes from... No offense, honestly..

Stosh · May-25-10, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "if you fail to grasp that all "Christian" faiths are derived from the Church of St. Peter"

See? I just don't understand where that comes from... No offense, honestly..

All Christian churches are derived from the Catholic faith. St. Peter was the alleged first "pope" of the catholic church, by virtue of his designation as the "rock" upon which the church was founded.

Martin Luther spawned all other church denominations from the Reformation on.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "if you fail to grasp that all "Christian" faiths are derived from the Church of St. Peter"

See? I just don't understand where that comes from... No offense, honestly..

Pick up a history book. Henry VIII created his own church because the Pope wouldn't grant him the divorce he wanted. Martin Luther created his own church because he didn't feel like one needed to do good works in order to be saved. The Middle Ages are filled with people creating their own faiths just because they felt like it. Until that time, there was only one Christian Church.

I'm not claiming the Church has been perfect throughout its history. But a failure to recognize it as the basis for all Christian faiths is pure ignorance.

**Meddle** · May-25-10, 08:43 AM

Until that time, there was only one Christian Church.

From some time, until some time, there MAY have only been one formal church, but there was a whole lot of life on this planet before any church existed and a large percentage of people had other beliefs.

Asia, Africa, the Americas and most Pacific Islanders never heard of 'Christianity' until what, the 1500-1600's or so? Parts of Asia maybe sooner, but not the majority.

I'm not claiming the Church has been perfect throughout its history. But a failure to recognize it as the basis for all Christian faiths is pure ignorance.

Umm, didn't the Christian faith come long before the Catholic Church?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

From some time, until some time, there MAY have only been one formal church, but there was a whole lot of life on this planet before any church existed and a large percentage of people had other beliefs.

Asia, Africa, the Americas and most Pacific Islanders never heard of 'Christianity' until what, the 1500-1600's or so? Parts of Asia maybe sooner, but not the majority.

Umm, didn't the Christian faith come long before the Catholic Church?

Now, we're not exactly talking about the same thing, are we?

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 09:18 AM

Quote: "But a failure to recognize it as the basis for all Christian faiths is pure ignorance."

Ignorance of Catholicism, and I plead guilty as charged. Ghetto, that is what your religion has taught you. Jesus said "I am the truth, the light and the way" "No one shall come to the Father except through me"

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "But a failure to recognize it as the basis for all Christian faiths is pure ignorance."

Ignorance of Catholicism, and I plead guilty as charged. Ghetto, that is what your religion has taught you.

No, that is documented, historical fact.

**Pam** · May-25-10, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

No, that is documented, historical fact.

Yes, I knew that and I'm not even Catholic. It's covered in any world history text.

Mr. Moo, do you ever admit when you are wrong ?

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 11:02 AM

It's a lie

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 11:11 AM

Well you asked for it:

The Roman Catholic Church DID NOT start with Jesus telling Peter that he was His rock, and His [[Jesus') Church would be built on him [[ Peter ). Peter was just an ordinary fisherman following Jesus at that time. Neither was he baptized, nor was he filled with the Holy Spirit. This Scripture has to be read in the CONTEXT of the preceding and proceeding Scriptures - Matthew 16:13 to 20 ). What Jesus was telling Peter was that The Revelation that He [[ Jesus ) was the Son of God, was given to Peter by Our Father God in Heaven - or else he [[ Peter ) would have never known that He [[ Jesus ) is the Son of the Living God. It is not by man but by God, that the Son is Revealed unto us.

He [[ Jesus ) then goes on to tell Peter that BASED ON THIS REVELATION [[ Rock / Truth ), He [[ Jesus ) would build HIS Church - against which even the gates of Hades would not be able to prevail. It is Jesus who established the Church not Peter! At that time Peter had no faith, couldn't recognize Jesus when He walked on water, lost his faith when Jesus asked him to come to Him on the water, denied Jesus 3 times, and was a man full of anger & violence [[ he cut off the ear of a man in the Garden of Gethsemane. )

It is most unfortunate that people read the Holy Bible in "black & white", in an earthly temporal manner, and they completely miss the Revelation that comes from the Lord Jesus, when reading His Word in the Spirit.

There is NO MENTION of "Roman Catholics" in the Holy Bible. There is no mention of any pope in the Holy Bible. The term Catholic is derived froma Greek word that means "Universal". The early followers of Jesus Christ were known as "Believers". Thats all. No Religion - no Roman Catholics - no Pope. "

It is only the declining Roman empire - their kings - who decided to hijack the Church of Believers, in order to somehow maintain the false supremacy of their fading glory. As a result of this "hijack" the term "Roman Catholics" came into existence.

John 3:16-17 says - "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save THE WORLD through Him".

Therefore, every single human being should understand the Word of God clearly - Jesus came for NO RELIGION. He came to save ALL MANKIND.

The only Religion that the Word of God speaks about is in James 1:27 - "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

That is Religion by the Holy Bible. Not Roman Catholics or any other denomination or any other so called Religion. Jesus never propagated any division or denomination amongst His Believers - so who are we mortals to create such divisions & denominations?

Those who live as false prophets, false "leaders", and deceivers shall meet their end as stated by the Lord in His Word. Amen. ""

[[from Wiki answers)

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 11:46 AM

And which authoritiative source posted that rambling piece of shit on WikiAnswers? Did you write that yourself, Sstashmoo? Or did you just happen to search the internets until you found someone who agrees with your OPINION?

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 12:32 PM

GhettoP, It is the truth. Care to refute it? Or are you just going to attack me instead?

checkraisej · May-25-10, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

GhettoP, It is the truth. Care to refute it? Or are you just going to attack me instead?

He doesn't need to refute it. The burden of proof is still on you because your source is not credible. Wikianswers can be created by anyone with an internet connection, which is hardly a requirement for being an expert. As previously stated, you could have wrote that yourself.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 02:28 PM

I love how someone who professes an honest ignorance of Catholicism can go onto WikiAnswers, find some poorly-argued bullshit, and then call it "the truth".

Speaks more to a lack of character and integrity than anything.

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 02:30 PM

Quote: "He doesn't need to refute it."

That wiki answer is spot on accurate, taken right from the Bible itself. It won't be refuted. It never has been, and it never will be.

Quote: "source is not credible"

I didn't want to get in to this debate. Find "Pope" or "Catholic" in the Holy Bible.

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 02:32 PM

Quote: "Speaks more to a lack of character"

LOL... I guess.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-25-10, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "He doesn't need to refute it."

That wiki answer is spot on accurate, taken right from the Bible itself. It won't be refuted. It never has been, and it never will be.

Your WikiAnswer, while it may quote the Bible [[which version, by the way?), is not "taken right from the Bible". There's a ton of conjecture, opinion, and interpretation in there, clearly from a biased non-Catholic.

I didn't want to get in to this debate. Find "Pope" or "Catholic" in the Holy Bible.

What would it prove if those English language words were somehow in a book that predates the English language by several centuries? Are you trying to say that Catholicism is wrong because it doesn't adhere to your personal belief that only a literal interpretation of the Bible is correct?

"Pope" originates from the Latin "Papa", meaning "Father". I'm pretty damned sure that word appears in the Bible more than a couple times.

catholic [[adj.)

mid-14c., "of the doctrines of the ancient Church," literally "universally accepted," from Fr. catholique, from L.L. catholicus "universal, general," from Gk. katholikos, from phrase kath' holou "on the whole, in general," from kata "about" + gen. of holos "whole" [[see safe [[adj.)). Applied to the Church in Rome c.1554, after the Reformation began. General sense of "of interest to all, universal" is from 1550s. As a noun, attested from 1560s.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

You might be interested to know that the original name of the University of Michigan was the Catholepistemiad. Same origin.

**maxx** · May-25-10, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "If you take the rites and ritual out of religion, you're left with an overglorified book club."

If you're performing rites and fail to grasp even the basic understanding of Christianity, that would make no sense. I'm not going to enter in to a debate about Catholicism. I researched it years ago, and it left me with more questions than answers.

The sacrifice of the Mass derives from the sacrifices made by ancient Jewish high priests. Of course, all religions sacrificed to their god[[s), but xtianity comes out of the Jewish tradition.

**maxx** · May-25-10, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

From some time, until some time, there MAY have only been one formal church, but there was a whole lot of life on this planet before any church existed and a large percentage of people had other beliefs.

Asia, Africa, the Americas and most Pacific Islanders never heard of 'Christianity' until what, the 1500-1600's or so? Parts of Asia maybe sooner, but not the majority.

Shintoism, ancestor worship, is a very old eastern belief, but I don't think it has any hierarchy beyond local priests.

The catholic church probably got its organizational structure from the Roman Empire with its emperors.

Umm, didn't the Christian faith come long before the Catholic Church?

Looks like the word "catholic" is a pretty recent phenomenon.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=catholic

**Sstashmoo** · May-25-10, 04:58 PM

Quote: "Pope" originates from the Latin "Papa", meaning "Father"

The Bible is pretty clear who the "Father" is. "In my Fathers house are many mansions" All through it.. It even warns about referring to any man on earth as "Father". He said call no man your father in Matthew 23:9

Quote: ""universally accepted,"

Not by me

**terryh** · May-25-10, 05:31 PM

And the tale grew taller and more distorted on down the line

During the middle ages, in parts of Europe human beings were murdered for denying the Christian faith, one of many religions that has the virgin birth motif......the tale developed variations depending on the culture? Trade routes carried tales, as well as raw materials...

Anyways I think the wishes of couples who want NO religion,religous terminology or religious figure in their wedding ceremony should be respected.

**maxx** · May-25-10, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Pope" originates from the Latin "Papa", meaning "Father"

The Bible is pretty clear who the "Father" is. "In my Fathers house are many mansions" All through it.. It even warns about referring to any man on earth as "Father". He said call no man your father in Matthew 23:9

Jesus also said to give everything you own to the poor and that if you called someone a fool you would be burned.
Matt.19[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mark.10 [21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luke 6 [29] And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
[30] Give to every man that asketh of thee;

Three references to this. Evidently it was very important to someone back then.

Matt 5 [22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.