Robert Bobb is not working out for DPS

[kraig]

The deficit has gone up and test scores have gone down.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle

[Johnlodge]

The deficit has gone up and test scores have gone down.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle

But isn't the money at least being spent on education instead of paying people who don't actually work there, and buying rooms full of stuff the kids never see? That should probably be taken into account as well. Test scores alone probably need a little more time to be decisive.

[daddeeo]

How can you expect one man in such a short time to overcome 40 plus years
of incompetence and corruption in the DPS?
I think he's headed in the right direction against overwhelming odds.

[kraig]

But isn't the money at least being spent on education instead of paying people who don't actually work there, and buying rooms full of stuff the kids never see? That should probably be taken into account as well. Test scores alone probably need a little more time to be decisive.

Bobb's not living up to the plan that he introduced himself. He's paying a lot on No Bid Contracts, largely to former employers and colleagues, who don't actually work there either. The deficit isn't increasing due to text books and school supplies, that's for sure.

[JBMcB]

I thought I read somewhere that the deficit had shot up because DPS accounting wasn't correct, and a re-audit had caught a bunch of debts not accounted for.

[rjlj]

You can't attract new students without investment. He is making investments now that are meant to pay off in the future.
No one has given this guy a chance. He has been up against a wall since day one. He has produced more results in a year than any DPS board has done in the past 25 years. Is it that rare in the Detroit Public School System to see someone who has the children's best interest at heart and want to join them? Or is the goal to keep status quo toward failure with only the interests of the adults as the focus?

[kraig]

You can't attract new students without investment. He is making investments now that are meant to pay off in the future.
No one has given this guy a chance. He has been up against a wall since day one. He has produced more results in a year than any DPS board has done in the past 25 years. Is it that rare in the Detroit Public School System to see someone who has the children's best interest at heart and want to join them? Or is the goal to keep status quo toward failure with only the interests of the adults as the focus?

What results has he produced? Name some.

[R8RBOB]

I admit that I am not a academic wiz but I think I know a thing or two about numbers and for anyone to say that Robert Bobb is working out is over the top. If DPS was a business and Robert Bobb was brought on board to manage the money, he would simply shut down operations that are not profitable and cut personnel to get the company back in the black.

DPS is not a profit-generated business. It is non-profit and its survival is based on tax dollars coming in. Bobb could treat DPS like a profit-driven entity and call for the immediate closure of schools. Let's say 50% of the schools in the city and when those schools closed, the jobs goes with them. The deficit will decrease and DPS could probably balance a budget.

Bobb have worked out, in fact he brought to light the decades of theft by those who claimed they were for the kids. I never expected Bobb to come in and poof money is falling from the sky, schools are actually places of learning not babysitting centers for the unfortunate. Just like Barack Obama can't clean the dirt left behind by Bush in a year, Bobb was not going to be able to turn the ship around in a year, but he was going to start the effort. Give him that.

[jbd441]

I think it's funny how the School Board is suing to get financial control back from Bobb. I wonder if any of this would have been overcovered if it wasn't for Bobb. Maybe the school board should be replaced also.


http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._to_uncov.html

[johnsmith]

What results has he produced? Name some.

Johnlodge already pointed out 2 very important ones.

[English]

This is not surprising. We're seeing the same results from others who do not have any teaching or administrative experience and purport to be "reformers", such as Michelle Rhee in DC and the current SecEd Arne Duncan's tenure in Chicago. The general public supports people like these because they're tough talkers and public education is abysmal in urban areas, but when you look at actual numbers [[test scores and the budget), their walk does NOT reflect the tough game they talk.

The fact is that outside of specific schools that can screen their population through test scores, behavioral metrics, or location in a relatively stable neighborhood, NONE of these reformers have done much better than those of us who quietly finished traditional teacher certification and began to put in the long years of learning how to teach, then put in more long years through training and internships to become administrators, counselors, researchers, policy wonks in education, and superintendents. When you look at some of these resumes of the "reformers" that turn the general public on so much, they are THIN on the ground.

The first thing that I learned as a whiz kid novice teacher was that I was NOT teaching a subject until I first learned how to reach kids. Reaching urban kids and convincing them that what you have is worth learning was tricky enough at an urban magnet school. It's even more difficult at a neighborhood school where you must be a social worker and surrogate parent before you even get to the teaching.

I have some ideas for reform, but they don't involve barebones financing of schools and Pavlovian direct instruction. We know what works, and we have the research on what works. The problem is that there is no political will for real reform, just flagellating urban teachers, urban administrators, and *especially* urban kids.

[DetBill]

If you took Bobb totally out of the equation in the last two years and it was status quo,
God help everyone as to where we would be now. The level of incredible incompetence and corruption in that system is staggering.

[65memories]

The fact is that outside of specific schools that can screen their population through test scores, behavioral metrics, or location in a relatively stable neighborhood, NONE of these reformers have done much better than those of us who quietly finished traditional teacher certification and began to put in the long years of learning how to teach, then put in more long years through training and internships to become administrators, counselors, researchers, policy wonks in education, and superintendents. When you look at some of these resumes of the "reformers" that turn the general public on so much, they are THIN on the ground.

As is usually the case, English has a better grasp of the problems facing urban education than most of our current leaders/reformers, including Robert Bobb. Bobb has done a great job combating fraud in DPS [[I know for a fact that millions of dollars slated for improvement to Mumford High School via bond money in the 90's never got there...somebody else got that money), but Bobb's knowledge of what works in urban education is suspect. He has transferred or dismissed many educators who were indeed making a difference. As I sat in on some of the school closing appeals, it was clear that Bobb had no real idea what was happening in some schools before he made them get on their knees and beg to remain open.

[Zacha341]

Well stated. I'm not a fan of the board and some schools needed to close... Indeed Bobb has stopped some of the bold-faced, barely conceal, open corruption that was rife in DPS like the Mumford situation and other scams such as the ghost employees.

But for certain he has brought on some people who have very thin experience in certain key areas in the district, however most are not local [[or even from Michigan in many cases) and that seems to be the magic quotient. I am wondering how these new persons will function post Bobb?

I also wonder how those teachers feel who take that $250 per pay check pay cut and see that has had little impact as the deficit is now even higher.... If the whole thing goes bust they will not be getting that money back [[all agreements become insolvent when agencies dissolve or go bankrupt).

As is usually the case, English has a better grasp of the problems facing urban education than most of our current leaders/reformers, including Robert Bobb. Bobb has done a great job combating fraud in DPS [[I know for a fact that millions of dollars slated for improvement to Mumford High School via bond money in the 90's never got there...somebody else got that money), but Bobb's knowledge of what works in urban education is suspect. He has transferred or dismissed many educators who were indeed making a difference. As I sat in on some of the school closing appeals, it was clear that Bobb had no real idea what was happening in some schools before he made them get on their knees and beg to remain open.

[wolverine]

It's not the schools, it's the parents. The parents are responsible for improving their kid's test scores. The schools can assist somewhat, but they can only do so much with so little. What, is a teacher going to stay after school with 30 something kids?

Robert Bobb can fix the money problems. The test scores are already decided.....and Detroiters seem to be relatively complacent with them being low, so I suppose there is no other problem to look at here.

[barnesfoto]

This guy has a tough job, and deserves some credit for trying to salvage a ship that has been on a disastrous course for decades, but now he is proposing building megaschools, which have a proven track record of failure.

Most school districts are moving towards smaller schools [[for example in Los Angeles, large schools have been broken up into small learning communities, each with their own educational goals)...Yet this man is trying to go backwards. One of his planned megaschools would be on the campuses of Western HS and Earhart Middle School, and involves acquiring homes in the Hubbard Farms neighborhood and demolishing them.

So, in a city filled with vacant land and buildings, he wants to force out another block of homeowners [[and homeowners in a historic district to boot) to build a gigantic school based on a failed educational model.

Hopefully, he's gone soon.

[mwilbert]

The DPS system has many problems. Bobb was brought in to deal with the horrendous financial position, but when it turned out he was the only grown-up around, he started sucking up additional roles. Maybe he was too willing to do that, but it is hard to fault him for trying to fill that gap. I don't think he knows much about running schools, but then no one knows all that much about running a successful public school system with a poor, urban student population.

As I have said before, I don't think there is a good reason for the DPS to exist, but if it is going to exist it should be run by someone with some plausible background in actually providing education to students. That excludes both Bobb and, as far as I can tell, the rest of the DPS administration.

[trstar]

Bobb is a fianace person. He should stick to the finances of the district. He is not qualified to make academic decisions. His choice of bringing in new academic consultants with failing track records elsewhere is foolhardy. The current board, or previous board, fumbled their chance at running the district by hiring Calloway. She was CLEARLY not qualified to run the district. The state allowed the thieves in the temple with the Engler takeover.

[R8RBOB]

Bobb is a fianace person. He should stick to the finances of the district. He is not qualified to make academic decisions. His choice of bringing in new academic consultants with failing track records elsewhere is foolhardy. The current board, or previous board, fumbled their chance at running the district by hiring Calloway. She was CLEARLY not qualified to run the district. The state allowed the thieves in the temple with the Engler takeover.

Nothing is perfect......

We need to remind ourselves that when Robert Bobb was appointed by the governor to manage the finances of DPS, the board had fired Connie Calloway and the ship had no captain. The board is not in charge of creating an academic plan. That responsibility falls on the desk of the superintendent who again was fired by the board three months before Bobb arrived.

I know people want to beat up on Bobb and granted he attempted to conjure up some "pie in the sky" ideas that may have been too much for Detroit but at least he is attempted to change the status quo attitude that have made the school system toxic. The old saying is "you will take two steps backwards to take one step forward" and DPS will be taking a lot of steps back to move forward.

[Zacha341]

Exactly... a bad idea. Incongruous and unsustainable. Typical big blue print, mega-glass and steel talk to impress the appropriate and appointed in the room, while the core entity is dismantled all together down the hall.

Blatant contradictions here with these sorta mega project!

Yet these are the kind of ROBO COP schemes you would often see from someone not local that would not be as sensitive to or aware of the the community, sustainability, demographics, land use or other details relevant to placement and development.

Thus, even this week Bobb finally had to rescind three of the proposed school closings once he finally responded to the facts re. the long term negative impact to the educational process those closings would make and the viability of those schools.

Now, I am NOT saying that no schools should be closed and none built. No! But proposals of mega schools like this are from poor and rushed, [[let me leave my foot print, addendum for my resume) planning, that speaks to Bobbs short comings. What? Did we think he was perfect?

Sure he has done some good. Not arguing that. But who is advising him? His friends from DC?

DPS: A district that seems to be going down ala the death by a thousand cuts... the charters are coming and current smart and prudent teachers should prepare for career transitions in that direction.

This guy has a tough job, and deserves some credit for trying to salvage a ship that has been on a disastrous course for decades, but now he is proposing building megaschools, which have a proven track record of failure.

Most school districts are moving towards smaller schools [[for example in Los Angeles, large schools have been broken up into small learning communities, each with their own educational goals)...Yet this man is trying to go backwards. One of his planned megaschools would be on the campuses of Western HS and Earhart Middle School, and involves acquiring homes in the Hubbard Farms neighborhood and demolishing them.

So, in a city filled with vacant land and buildings, he wants to force out another block of homeowners [[and homeowners in a historic district to boot) to build a gigantic school based on a failed educational model.

Hopefully, he's gone soon.

[firstandten]

This guy has a tough job, and deserves some credit for trying to salvage a ship that has been on a disastrous course for decades, but now he is proposing building megaschools, which have a proven track record of failure.

Most school districts are moving towards smaller schools [[for example in Los Angeles, large schools have been broken up into small learning communities, each with their own educational goals)...Yet this man is trying to go backwards. One of his planned megaschools would be on the campuses of Western HS and Earhart Middle School, and involves acquiring homes in the Hubbard Farms neighborhood and demolishing them.

So, in a city filled with vacant land and buildings, he wants to force out another block of homeowners [[and homeowners in a historic district to boot) to build a gigantic school based on a failed educational model.

Hopefully, he's gone soon.

I believe the key is how this mega school will be set up. Bobb is talking pre K thru 14. The year 14 makes sense because most DPS grads aren't ready for a 4 year college and the two additional years just take the place of the time they would spend at WCCCD.

Thats a lot of students at one location so it would all depend on how the classes were set up. Essentially making sure the babies aren't bumping into the HS students.

[firstandten]

What do you think of a concept like the Kalamazoo Promise. The kids can see a payoff at the end, and they would be motivated to at least keep a 2.0 GPA. It would take a lot of money to be done in Detroit since there are only 2 HS in K-zoo.

Its something that could be looked at on a smaller scale then expanded if proven to work

[Kevgoblue]

It's not the schools, it's the parents. The parents are responsible for improving their kid's test scores. The schools can assist somewhat, but they can only do so much with so little. What, is a teacher going to stay after school with 30 something kids?

Thank you. This is the part of the problem that nobody seems to want to talk about. Heaven forbid that we ask parents to do their jobs as parents. Its so much easier to just blame the teacher / principal / administrators. Sixty years ago young, poor minority children fared much better [[educationally) than the children of today. And their schools had much less funding available. They did better because their parents had the expectation that they go to school and learn something. I can understand why a child from a underprivilidged background might not know how to create a webpage, due to lack of exposure. But that still doesn't explain why he hasn't mastered the fundamentals of readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.

[Patrick]

It's not the schools, it's the parents. The parents are responsible for improving their kid's test scores. The schools can assist somewhat, but they can only do so much with so little. What, is a teacher going to stay after school with 30 something kids?

Robert Bobb can fix the money problems. The test scores are already decided.....and Detroiters seem to be relatively complacent with them being low, so I suppose there is no other problem to look at here.

This.

A lot of it stems from cultural and social issues. Seems to me that you could pump hundreds of millions into DPS and not see a good improvement. It is kinda like shovelling shit into the tide...you just can't win. Schools can only do so much to improve the lives of urban kids. Parents have to take charge but how can they when Detroit has so many one-parent households? Detroit is going on 40 years of having shitty schools. Just what the hell is the issue? What is the underlying problem here?

[maxx]

I wonder when was the last time DPS had had an audit before this one. Can't the school board demand that?