Pelosi: "Quit your job, taxpayers will provide your healthcare"

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 10:05 AM

Quote: "That is one of the provisions of the health care bill, that you cannot be denied for pre existing conditions."

And the insurance companies out of the goodness of their hearts is going to give those folks a reasonable rate? You won't be denied, but you better have the money to pay for it.

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 10:19 AM

Stosh's real life example: "My daughter had a baby recently. She was subsequently hounded from her job AND her insurance by her employer, when they found that she was going to have to have her thyroid out. Too expensive for their tastes, so out she goes."

If your daughter can prove that, she has excellent grounds for a lawsuit. If she can't, then it probably didn't happen that way. In these "real life examples", I like to hear both sides. Her employer knowing the ramifications of wrongful dismissal, especially towards a female and expecting mother, it would be highly unlikely they would pursue that path. Not saying they didn't, but it sounds highly unlikely.

Next question..

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 10:23 AM

I'll make a prediction. In lieu of the economy and the nature of people, this Obamacare is going to be a clusterF from stem to stern. If anything will trigger a revolt in this country, that is going to be it.

**oladub** · May-21-10, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Ain't it funny how the Usual Band of Free Marketeers wants to keep people locked in jobs they no longer wish to keep, just so they can go see a doctor when they need to do so?

Doesn't sound very "free-market" to me!

Free market is $50 Dr. visits with the option of not being able to sue the doctor, fewer or no prescription drugs with more over-the counter drugs, the freedom to import much cheaper drugs from Canada or even Cuba, fewer licenses, lawyers, and bureaucrats to support, etc.. These are all things our government has forbidden. I think what you are referring to is corporatist medicine which we had under Bush and President Obama has enhanced. If we had ever been allowed free-market medicine, most Americans could afford it. Obama's plan at least offers more transportability so one can switch jobs without that fear. Even if the new job didn't offer more than minimal benefits, the taxpayers will kick in the difference so the lawyers, bureaucrats, and insurance company can all get their share.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-21-10, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Free market is $50 Dr. visits with the option of not being able to sue the doctor, fewer or no prescription drugs with more over-the counter drugs, the freedom to import much cheaper drugs from Canada or even Cuba, fewer licenses, lawyers, and bureaucrats to support, etc.. These are all things our government has forbidden. I think what you are referring to is corporatist medicine which we had under Bush and President Obama has enhanced. If we had ever been allowed free-market medicine, most Americans could afford it. Obama's plan at least offers more transportability so one can switch jobs without that fear. Even if the new job didn't offer more than minimal benefits, the taxpayers will kick in the difference so the lawyers, bureaucrats, and insurance company can all get their share.

Yeah? Does that $50 doctor visit cover cancer treatment? What about pre-and-post-natal care? Surgery? Does your $50 doctor have a Level I trauma center?

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 11:36 AM

No, for any of that stuff, go to Canada.

**oladub** · May-21-10, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Yeah? Does that $50 doctor visit cover cancer treatment? What about pre-and-post-natal care? Surgery? Does your $50 doctor have a Level I trauma center?

No, certain skin cancers aside, most surguries are done at hospitals. Some such surguries can also be done at foreign hospitals for a tiny fraction of the cost of US hospitals. Medical tourism is growing fast. Of course, if one opts for a discount operation, one doesn't get to sue doctors and otherwise support lawyers and bueaucrats but such is the free market. You assume that all the economic crud in our health care system that heals or cures no one has to remain in place.

Here I am fantisizing and am sure this will never happen. But what if an economic enterprise zone were set up in , for instance, Detroit in which an Indian firm were allowed to build hospitals to compete with the Mayo Clinic with the stipulation that all services provided would be no more than 30% more than those same services as provided in India. In return, the Indian hospitals would be exempt from lawsuits and would accept only cash. Suddenly, the cost of operations decreases 80%. I know this will never happen beause corporations and their politicains would never allow it but it isn't any more radical than patients flying to India or Cuba to get that hip replacement or eye surgury. These are the kind of solutions possible when the actual concept of 'free-markets' is employed rather than the corporatist system we have pretending to be 'free-market'.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-21-10, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Here I am fantisizing and am sure this will never happen. But what if an economic enterprise zone were set up in , for instance, Detroit in which an Indian firm were allowed to build hospitals to compete with the Mayo Clinic with the stipulation that all services provided would be no more than 30% more than those same services as provided in India. In return, the Indian hospitals would be exempt from lawsuits and would accept only cash.

Hey, I don't know if you've looked around lately, but hospitals are losing their ass charging what they already charge. Seen many hospitals open up lately? I've certainly seen a fair amount of them close!

With that said, please explain why an Indian-run hospital isn't allowed to do exactly as you've described. And, oh yeah--since they're going to only accept cash payment, does that mean poor and middle-class people don't deserve affordable medical care?

And medical tourism? Give me a break. We're going to require people to buy a $2000 plane ticket for medical care, because our country is so FUCKED that we need to rely on poorer nations to provide services we're too lazy to do. Fuck me.

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 11:54 AM

Quote: "My point was that there are more earning money or earning a living than the small percentage Sstashmoo thinks."

Sure, the ones you know are making "some" money doing it, I'm talking about the one's you don't know. The folks that a gave it a try and gave up. The same people Pelosi is talking to.

Looks at it like this, how many people buy a guitar or an easel, and of that group, how many make money with either? Probably less than 1%. Granted, not everyone that buys a guitar is aspiring to be the next Hendrix, but given the opportunity? The rate of success? Should the government be coercing them?

**ghettopalmetto** · May-21-10, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Looks at it like this, how many people but a guitar or an easel, and of that group, how many make money with either? Probably less than 1%. Granted not everyone that buys a guitar is aspiring to be the next Hendrix, but given the opportunity? The rate of success? Should the government be coercing them?

Likewise, should the government be discouraging them?

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 12:14 PM

Quote: "Likewise, should the government be discouraging them?"

The Government should keep their nose out of it, Period. Keep asking the Gov to get involved, hope that doesn't come back to bite.

**oladub** · May-21-10, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Hey, I don't know if you've looked around lately, but hospitals are losing their ass charging what they already charge. Seen many hospitals open up lately? I've certainly seen a fair amount of them close!

With that said, please explain why an Indian-run hospital isn't allowed to do exactly as you've described. And, oh yeah--since they're going to only accept cash payment, does that mean poor and middle-class people don't deserve affordable medical care?

And medical tourism? Give me a break. We're going to require people to buy a $2000 plane ticket for medical care, because our country is so FUCKED that we need to rely on poorer nations to provide services we're too lazy to do. Fuck me.

Under Obamacare, the contruction of many haspitals is beiung put on hold depending, in part, on who owns them. Certain border and ghetto hospitals are also having their own financial problems having to comply with laws forcing them to serve the indigent. Maybe that will change.

The reason a hypothetical Indian hospital could not set up as such is a variety of laws meant either to serve 'the people' or all the parasites profiting from the health industry.

Some insurance companies are already gladly paying for medical tourism options. They even pay for the plane fare because $2,000 is sometimes offset with a $80,000 savings in the operating room. I would prefer more medical freedom here but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Back in the 50's most people were able to afford medical care at least with insurance which was much cheaper then. Had we a currency attatched to the gold standard, we would still be able to afford a lot more medicine even with the improvements in medicine. But the government has eroded the value of our money while simultaniously driving up the cost of health care so the consensus seems to be that we need more government involvement in health care. Had we instead been allowed more free market health care options, the percentage of people needing government aid for health care would have been much smaller and managable as it was inthe 50's.

Stosh · May-21-10, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Stosh's real life example: "My daughter had a baby recently. She was subsequently hounded from her job AND her insurance by her employer, when they found that she was going to have to have her thyroid out. Too expensive for their tastes, so out she goes."

If your daughter can prove that, she has excellent grounds for a lawsuit. If she can't, then it probably didn't happen that way. In these "real life examples", I like to hear both sides. Her employer knowing the ramifications of wrongful dismissal, especially towards a female and expecting mother, it would be highly unlikely they would pursue that path. Not saying they didn't, but it sounds highly unlikely.

Next question..

You know where you can shove that smiley face. Next question my ass.

First and foremost, she was harrassed constantly, making her blood pressure go up dangerously. Second, all this was tied to "performance". In THIS real life example, there was no union to back her up, nor any way to realistically prove any of this. These guys were way to sharp to get caught in that trap, they've done it before. She wasn't an expecting mother at the time of dismissal.

Stosh · May-21-10, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

No, for any of that stuff, go to Canada.

What? Are you advocating that Socialized Medisine is better than what we have?

**Sstashmoo** · May-21-10, 04:49 PM

Quote: "all this was tied to "performance"."

Well, if someone is not doing their job, companies tend to get rid of them. As far as being harassed etc. If it happened, it shouldn't be hard to prove. Asking someone to do what they are getting paid for is not harassing them.

Let me say this, It is FAR easier for an employee to prove something like this than it is for an employer to disprove it, in a court of law. Courts generally side with the employee in their decisions if the employee can show any proof at all. She should get an attorney and sue the pants off them.

Quote: "You know where you can shove that smiley face."

You know where you can shove your stupidassed comments.

**Thames** · May-21-10, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stosh

My daughter had a baby recently.

Congratulations, Grandpa!

Stosh · May-21-10, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Thames

Congratulations, Grandpa!

Thanks! He's quite healthy and happy.

Stosh · May-21-10, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "all this was tied to "performance"."

Well, if someone is not doing their job, companies tend to get rid of them. As far as being harassed etc. If it happened, it shouldn't be hard to prove. Asking someone to do what they are getting paid for is not harassing them.

Let me say this, It is FAR easier for an employee to prove something like this than it is for an employer to disprove it, in a court of law. Courts generally side with the employee in their decisions if the employee can show any proof at all. She should get an attorney and sue the pants off them.

Quote: "You know where you can shove that smiley face."

You know where you can shove your stupidassed comments.

Really? Now you are an employment law professional, huh? Think she hasn't sought legal counsel?
Christ, must be nice to be such a anal d-bag as to have an opinion on everything.
2285 posts and counting from you, and not a single shred of common sense or empathy in any of them.
I wonder, WWJD? Tell those without health care to piss off?

And I'd sooner make stupid assed comments than actualy BE one.
How does it feel?

**Sstashmoo** · May-22-10, 07:24 AM

Qoute: "Think she hasn't sought legal counsel?"

And what happened with it? I'll answer that for you, the attorney said: "sorry you have no case". Which means the employer didn't do anything illegal. Stosh, I may be an "Anal Dirtbag" according to you, but I can read through a bullshitter like you in a heartbeat.

Yeah they got rid of her because she needed surgery..rigghht. First of all, if she had insurance, doesn't cost them anything. If she had no insurance, doesn't cost then anything. Second, they don't have to pay her while she's off work. So they took a chance, and left themselves wide open for a lawsuit and got rid of her? I'll bet they have a different story with documentation..

**reddog289** · May-22-10, 08:01 AM

As for anything that Pelosi says well I would rather talk to my annoying 22yr old daughter after she comes home from the bar.As for health care in general, Well the last time I visited my Doc. Lets just say " A healthy diet looks alot better then trying to get a refill for your statin drugs".

Stosh · May-22-10, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Qoute: "Think she hasn't sought legal counsel?"

And what happened with it? I'll answer that for you, the attorney said: "sorry you have no case". Which means the employer didn't do anything illegal. Stosh, I may be an "Anal Dirtbag" according to you, but I can read through a bullshitter like you in a heartbeat.

Yeah they got rid of her because she needed surgery..rigghht. First of all, if she had insurance, doesn't cost them anything. If she had no insurance, doesn't cost then anything. Second, they don't have to pay her while she's off work. So they took a chance, and left themselves wide open for a lawsuit and got rid of her? I'll bet they have a different story with documentation..

Of course there was no case you fool! Harassment is LEGAL At will employment means just that, at will. As the resident "anal d-bag" you should know that, I think. These people have relegated people "at will" to part time status just to avoid paying benefits to others as well. And these are people that have had medical issues as well that they have avoided paying jacked premiums for too. They KNEW she was going to have to have surgery, and acted predictably. They know the law, and how to skirt it without getting caught..

That being said, you are the worst kind of bullshitter, SS. A clueless one. There is such a thing as karma, even though zealots like you feel that God is always on your side. Being a heartless, soulless piece of excrement will only work for so long until it catches up to you in the psychic balance. Maybe it already has, seeing as you seem to be here all hours of the day and night. I'd be willing to bet that there's even more surprises in store for you as well. Keep on the path you are on, I'll wager that somewhere along the line something related to this thread will be on your horizon.

**Sstashmoo** · May-22-10, 09:30 AM

Quote: "I'd be willing to bet that there's even more surprises in store for you as well." "I'll wager that somewhere along the line something related to this thread will be on your horizon."

Now you're threatening me?

Quote: "Harassment is LEGAL"

No it isn't.

Quote: "Being a heartless"

How am I being heartless? I'm simply providing clarity for your accusations. You respond with name calling and threats. I've came to the conclusion, having any sort of reasonably intelligent conversation with you, is pretty much off the charts. You are dismissed.

Stosh · May-22-10, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "I'd be willing to bet that there's even more surprises in store for you as well." "I'll wager that somewhere along the line something related to this thread will be on your horizon."

Now you're threatening me?

Quote: "Harassment is LEGAL"

No it isn't.

Quote: "Being a heartless"

How am I being heartless? I'm simply providing clarity for your accusations. You respond with name calling and threats. I've came to the conclusion, having any sort of reasonably intelligent conversation with you, is pretty much off the charts. You are dismissed.

1)No, that would be the job of the forces of this world, whether God, Jesus, or whatever. Karma is that way. Sooner or later you will pay for your sins. And if you believe, as you say, the Bible or christianity, ttry this one on for size:

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:40

Think THAT doesn't apply to this situation?

It all evens out in the end.

2) Really? Prove it.

3) Dismissed? Boy, what a horse's ass.

**Sstashmoo** · May-22-10, 10:40 AM

Now he gets all religious. Look, go take a blood pressure pill, flip on the Home and Garden channel and be a good little retiree.

Stosh · May-22-10, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Now he gets all religious. Look, go take a blood pressure pill, flip on the Home and Garden channel and be a good little retiree.

I see no answer to THAT quote huh? Self examination of your motives could always be a first step to enlightenment. There's more to life than pissing about your piddling taxes. Which brings me to ANOTHER quote:

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Mark 12:17

See how that works? Good stuff, that bible. You should read it sometimes. Compassion, forgiveness, all that LIBERAL stuff.

And who said I was retired?