Police accidentally shoot 7 year old girl in house search.

[Detwa]

Whatever else comes up in this extremely sad incident, I would hope that it would cause the police to reconsider throwing grenades through windows into rooms that may be occupied by innocent people, and in particular children.

The most shocking thing about this to me is the 'blast first, ask questions later' aspect of setting off a giant bang in the living room of people who have no reason to expect such a thing is going to happen. It's one thing when you throw something like that into a place where you know the suspect, and only the suspect, is hiding. It's quite another thing when you throw it into a family's home where you think a suspect might be, with callous disregard for anyone else who may be in that dwelling.

I don't know what the procedure is for using those things, I've only seen them on television, but I would think they would only use them when they are 100% sure there are no innocent civilians there, like if they were barging into a warehouse or something. I mean, in a home - what if there was a baby crib right next to the window? With a sleeping baby? Or an elderly person napping on the sofa? I can't imagine doing that without knowing what's on the other side of the window. Especially in a family dwelling, its not like it an abandoned home that was verified to be a crackhouse and had been surveyed for a period of time and confirmed that there were only drug addicts in there. Can't wait to see what Fieger really has to reveal.

[Goose]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37191818...storyContinued

let the attempted cover-up begin.......

[R8RBOB]

let the attempted cover-up begin.......

I found this bit of info interesting....It sure would help in the civil case.

Two prominent criminal defense attorneys said they were unaware of past instances when Detroit police used flash grenades in raids when children were possibly present.

"That's a new one," said Detroit lawyer Corbett Edge O'Meara. "That does seem to be a pretty extreme measure. It doesn't surprise me that the police had no concern whether they were endangering the lives of children when they made this raid."

Attorney Marvin Barnett was more blunt: "I've never heard that before in my entire career, that you've thrown a flash bomb in a house unless you've got an armed suspect and you know there is nobody else in the house."

"I'd like to know who gave the order to do that," Barnett said.

[Michigan]

This may be the most repulsive post I've ever read on here. You're honestly taking a dead 7 year old to task for what you take to be her poor 'choice' of relatives?

No, EAL, I am merely stating how I interpret the situation. I never blamed the little girl, or her choices.

[Gannon]

Michigan is probably also saying that the 4 year old boy who was stabbed to death by the mother's fiancé out in Clinton Township was the fault of the mother since she made a bad decision and choice to marry the murderer.

Yeah, and if he begins to blame my cousin's grandson Dominic for daring to be the punching bag for his mother's live-in abuser...he's going to have some kinda trouble from a whole bunch of people. Heck, even blaming Dominic's mother for the scenario would be amazingly heartless.

[softailrider]

To the best of my knolledge Detroit Police use Glock 22 40 caliber weapons and there is NO External safety. When they were first issued this guns several officers shot themselves in the foot. Counld this have gone off accidently yes, do I think so No. And sounds like the weapon wasn't even inside the house....Hmmmmm just sayin. Flash bang grenade....Really!!!!! WTF

Your knowledge is quite stale dated, DPD switched to the Smith & Wesson Military and Police line several months ago.

[R8RBOB]

No, EAL, I am merely stating how I interpret the situation. I never blamed the little girl, or her choices.

Dude how can you interpret that situation? Middle of the night, an object breaks the front window and then a flash and noise. Everyone in that flat was probably in a panic. All hell breaking loose and then a shot rings out and a child is mortally wounded. If you can interpret that situation, you're a bad dude.

[mikefmich]

7 year old children die in this country every day, literally every day, and we do not spend our lives in mourning. Why is this instance different? Why should the world stop and mourn for this child more than it does for any of the thousands who die every day?

In my opinion, this child is dead because of bad decisions and choices made by members of her family. If any one wants to mourn, let's mourn the death of civility, responsibility, normalcy, productivity, and society within a large swath of our fellow citizens. In a normal, functioning society the family of this child would hang their heads in shame and hide beneath the darkest, dankest rock they could find for fear of the humiliation and shunning they will suffer from the other members of society. Unfortunately this is the USA of the 21st century, and it is far from a normal, functioning society.

You are one fooken piece of work. Egads........gtfo.

[Michigan]

It is terribly sad. But what positive lesson can be learned from it? To penalize the police or to try to change what seem to have become acceptable life choices of a large portion of society? I think the latter would help many many more people than the former. This is of course only my opinion, and I am sure many others will have different opinions. As facts emerge I may be shown to be wrong, but at this point we do not know. Given what we do know now, I tend to side with the LEOs more than the family.

You can all pile on, I can deal with it.

Feiger is a good lawyer, by the time this is all done we will know more than we could ever want to know about this situation. I will wait and see what they find at the bottom of this disaster, if I am wrong I will admit it.

[R8RBOB]

Given what we do know now, I tend to side with the LEOs more than the family.

Interesting choice of words. But...why does it one like yourself have to take sides? There are no winners here. The family that you want to blame have lost a 7 year old girl. As for the LEOs you want to side with well one of their own will have live with the guilt that a 7 year old girl died by his hand. There are no winners here.

[Zacha341]

Condolences to both families for these two young lives lost: Aiyana Jones, and Jarean Blake.

Yes, it is murder all over... thru and thru. Outside of the police, the of the persons involved here know each other or are family members. This speaks to the density of people living in closer quarters these days. Starting with the ADULT man who ruthlessly murdered the 17 year old and then the death of the 7 year old.

I work in that community and their were heated discussions about this ALL DAY LONG. I hope that the suspected shooters initial actions are not forgotten.

The tragedy was that a young child was killed by accident but we must remember that the suspect killed a 17 year old in cold blood, in broad daylight. The police had to move because they were spotted on the block so people in the neighborhood knew the hook was staking out the house. If they waited till morning and the murderer gave the police the slip everyone would question why the police would wait to appenhend the criminal when they had his location.

There is no gray here. It is a black or white situation that resulted in the lost of a precious 7 year old.

[Zacha341]

I was wondering about that... but I think the couch was brought onto the porch after the event?? Or perhaps not. It seemed a bit too cold for anyone to be out on the porch that late...

Sleeping on the front porch! A seven year-old!! C'mon use your common sense.

As for your comment about the grandmother not turning in the murderer well what if the grandmother didn't know he murderer a 17 year old in cold blood. It is not like he went through the house and announced that he murdered a boy because of words.

[Stosh]

A murdered 17 year old, and a murdered 17 year old. Both young, both dead. Nobody pissing and moaning about the 17 year old, are they?

[Fnemecek]

If I'm not mistaken I think they hired the chief of the Springfield police dept. for the that job, Chief Wiggum is his name.

Oh, how cute. The person who doesn't know how a gun works made a funny.

[neighbor]

So, what is the difference between this and the man who accidentally shot and killed the 69 year old grandma last week? In that case they charged the carjacker with murder. Why don't/can't they charge the suspect in this case with another murder case?

I know everybody like to hate the cops but isn't it sort of the same?

If the guy upstairs hadn't murdered anyone the cops wouldn't have been there just like if that guy hadn't been carjacked he wouldn't have had to pull out his gun.

[Fnemecek]

So, what is the difference between this and the man who accidentally shot and killed the 69 year old grandma last week? In that case they charged the carjacker with murder. Why don't/can't they charge the suspect in this case with another murder case?

For starters, the shooter from last week deliberately fired his weapon.

In this case, early reports are that the weapon may have accidentally fired when a resident of the home grabbed it. If the shot was fired as a result of someone else's actions, there's not much to charge the officer with.

Fieger claims that this wasn't really the case; that the shot came from someone standing outside the house. If that's the case, that changes everything. He says that he has video footage that can prove his claim. Eventually, that footage is going to have to come out.

[gnome]

Both this incident and the one in which Sgt Huff was killed strike me as having a similar cause: lack of patience.

With Huff, instead of surrounding the house, pouring light on it, clearing out the neighbors next door and locking the fucker down; the hurry-up bum's-rush sent a line of shooting ducks right through the front door and into the line of fire. I don't intend to marr Sgt Huff's memory as he and his family deserve all the respect available, but in the future you can't send cops through a door and into someone's cross hairs.

Rel in right in the case of the little girl. We really don't have the facts, but that said, was there any real reason you couldn't wait to see if there were any inocents inside? I mean, again, what was the rush? The guy wasn't going to tunnel his way out.

[neighbor]

For starters, the shooter from last week deliberately fired his weapon.

In this case, early reports are that the weapon may have accidentally fired when a resident of the home grabbed it. If the shot was fired as a result of someone else's actions, there's not much to charge the officer with.

Fieger claims that this wasn't really the case; that the shot came from someone standing outside the house. If that's the case, that changes everything. He says that he has video footage that can prove his claim. Eventually, that footage is going to have to come out.

I don't think that would change anything unless someone was aiming directly in to the house. Accidents happen even with trained professionals. It;s tragic but ultimately still an accident.

I hope for the familys sake they didn't know the guy upstairs killed that kid.

[Michigan]

Interesting choice of words. But...why does it one like yourself have to take sides? There are no winners here. The family that you want to blame have lost a 7 year old girl. As for the LEOs you want to side with well one of their own will have live with the guilt that a 7 year old girl died by his hand. There are no winners here.

All sorts of people have taken sides on this thread- ORF, Gannon, among others. I do not see anyone jumping down their throats. Why is that?

[English]

A murdered 17 year old, and a murdered 17 year old. Both young, both dead. Nobody pissing and moaning about the 17 year old, are they?

Yes, there were plenty of people "pissing and moaning" about that 17 year old, at least in my circles. That 17 year old happened to be the student of one of my sorority line sisters. She is devastated and has shared a lot about the kid with us.

There were also people very upset about the elderly lady who was killed. My relatives were particularly upset by it, especially my grandmother. There are only a couple of degrees of separation in Detroit. Everyone knows everyone, and if you don't know them, you know someone who does.

I also expressed my grief about Officer Huff, as did many others. Funnily enough, that didn't elicit the same degree of nastiness that our posts about our sadness over the death of a little girl did.

I am astounded by some of the posts in this thread. I've been staying true to my pledge to bite my sharp tongue here on DYes, so it's time for me to skedaddle out of this thread. My closing thoughts are that maybe people in the region should think about doing something in her memory. No matter who her folks were or how she died, she was a small child, and her life was worth just as much as our own children's lives.

[Meddle]

This reckless military-style so-called 'policing' needs to end...or simply be reserved for extraordinary situations.

I won't argue with that. We've got a bunch of ex-military people running civilian police agencies around the country. Some were special forces trained for one thing.

[Fnemecek]

I don't think that would change anything unless someone was aiming directly in to the house. Accidents happen even with trained professionals. It;s tragic but ultimately still an accident.

I hope for the familys sake they didn't know the guy upstairs killed that kid.

They knew him. He was engaged to a woman who lived in the lower flat, with the 7 year old.

[Meddle]

Two prominent criminal defense attorneys said they were unaware of past instances when Detroit police used flash grenades in raids when children were possibly present.

"That's a new one," said Detroit lawyer Corbett Edge O'Meara. "That does seem to be a pretty extreme measure. It doesn't surprise me that the police had no concern whether they were endangering the lives of children when they made this raid."

Attorney Marvin Barnett was more blunt: "I've never heard that before in my entire career, that you've thrown a flash bomb in a house unless you've got an armed suspect and you know there is nobody else in the house."

"I'd like to know who gave the order to do that," Barnett said.

I don't know what rock those two have been sleeping under for the last several years, but Flashbangs are more or less standard procedure in felony raids with little or no knowledge of who or what is inside.

Let's take a step back and find a little perspective. Consider Oakland, CA and Pittsburgh, PA recently when multiple officers were shot and killed in very similar raids. Those raised the bar for these types of raids and officers nationwide are more agressive.

[Gannon]

All sorts of people have taken sides on this thread- ORF, Gannon, among others. I do not see anyone jumping down their throats. Why is that?

Michigan,

I just re-read my words here, and do not see how you can see me 'taking sides'.


I am merely regretting the devolution of policing into this horrible military stuff that keeps officers of the law from being recognized for later accountability.

Here is something from Dictionary.com:

Word Origin & History

police
c.1530, at first essentially the same word as policy [[1); from M.Fr. police [[1477), from L. politia "civil administration," from Gk. polis "city" [[see policy [[1)). Still used in Eng. for "civil administration" until mid-19c.; application to "administration of public order" [[1716) is from Fr., and originally referred to France or other foreign nations. The first force so-named in Eng. was the Marine Police, set up 1798 to protect merchandise at the Port of London. The verb "to keep order by means of police" is from 1841; policeman is from 1829. Police state "state regulated by means of national police" first recorded 1865, with ref. to Austria.

To me, we're a far cry from any civil administration...and it is unfortunately further away due the last national news raid where an officer was killed [[alienating the officers by making them face their OWN daily risk of death more clearly and undoubtedly making them HARDENED more against any and all citizenry, they simply cannot help reacting this way...I am not blaming them...it is simply human nature)...


...and then again now alienating the citizenry from trusting the police with their safety, due this recent truly unfortunate activity.


So, I do NOT see any clear path towards where those who work for us to protect and maintain civilization...or even our version of it...will be able to help eliminate the pervasive 'fear the man' mentality of many who live in the city.

How are we going to ever make the 'no snitching' street rule melt into acceptance of the necessity of a police force, when things like this happen due to enhanced enforcement...amplified by television shows ad nauseum?!


We are further from any form of solution than before, minus the presence of one good cop and another innocent young lady.


Something must be done. I have no clue nor hint what...but recognize that at least these military-style raids must be curtailed...and a policy of waiting out unless others are at direct risk [[like hostages and anyone who dares fire upon an officer).

THEN they get the whole treatment.


We've got Homeland Security technology on two helicopters [[at least) available to the Detroit Police...one Sheriff and one Coast Guard.

If they weren't flying the damn Coast Guard heli way up in West Bloomfield daily, perhaps it would be available to help in these situations.


Hell, they had heat sensing good enough to see in a sewer pipe when that fellow shot up the Ford plant in Wixom, and that was FIVE years before the term Homeland Security was even forced upon us!


They could know when the perp went to the damn bathroom and when he laid down to sleep. With today's technology, they may even be able to hear his breathing and heartbeat through the glass window pane!


Lay OFF the raids. That is the ONLY stand I take. We need police, we do NOT need trigger-happy military hiding behind black suits with ONLY the word POLICE on them.

I want badge numbers prominently displayed and confirmed regularly...how is that taking sides?!


I am with Meddle and Gnome here...and from past discussions, we make odd bedfellows here for sure. It often takes severe trauma for some to agree, but I'm clear on this one.


Thanks for your words, too. It did not go un-noticed that you say you will admit if you are wrong. Me, too.

I just get a pinch in my gut whenever I see these things staged, from the very first one I saw down at the old Seville Motel. I knew some of the things going on there, and even though I imagined it warranted [[literally, too)...it still made me sick to see it in America.


Sincerely,
John

[Meddle]

I just get a pinch in my gut whenever I see these things staged, from the very first one I saw down at the old Seville Motel. I knew some of the things going on there, and even though I imagined it warranted [[literally, too)...it still made me sick to see it in America.

I don't remember that, but on a weird sidenote, there was a recent article giving an update on the Philadelphia MOVE raid and what's happened in that neighborhood.