Police accidentally shoot 7 year old girl in house search.

**bailey** · May-17-10, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

It's on the national wires. CNN and AP have both picked it up.

Odd that Detroit is in the top news of the day for both very good [[Miss USA) and very bad stories.

MsUSA is from Dearborn not Detroit.

**Meddle** · May-17-10, 07:17 AM

Oh, they use flashbangs for sure. Have for many years.

They used to use tear gas canisters until they set a few buildings on fire with them.

**ggores** · May-17-10, 07:59 AM

No such thing as an accidental shooting, first off. Any professional... ahem... shootist will tell you that that finger don't go on to the trigger until you intend to shoot.

Simply poor training resulting in lack of discipline with that shootin' digit.

By the way, the FBI oversight of DPD has been grossly ineffective. Where is their accountability in the whole mess that has become weekly tragedy in the City?

**kraig** · May-17-10, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

No such thing as an accidental shooting, first off. Any professional... ahem... shootist will tell you that that finger don't go on to the trigger until you intend to shoot.

Simply poor training resulting in lack of discipline with that shootin' digit.

By the way, the FBI oversight of DPD has been grossly ineffective. Where is their accountability in the whole mess that has become weekly tragedy in the City?

Great point. Great point. First the City is assigned, and spends a ton of money, on a Monitor that ends up being one of Kwame's freaks. And now, with everything that's going on, we haven't heard so much as a peep from the monitors.

**kraig** · May-17-10, 09:38 AM

Lilpup, no need to respond to my question, if you were planning to, I saw the information that you were referencing. The suspect was the fiance of the little girl's aunt.

**Novine** · May-17-10, 10:11 AM

A SWAT entrance makes for great TV. Makes you wonder if the presence of the First 48 show had any influence on the choice to enter in that way? Is that SOP for the DPD when trying to secure the arrest of wanted murderers? It might have been more boring TV to stake out the house and wait for the guy to leave. But it's likely that it wouldn't have resulted in innocent civilians being in the line of fire.

**Meddle** · May-17-10, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Is that SOP for the DPD when trying to secure the arrest of wanted murderers?

It isn't as uncommon as you might think, but if nothing goes wrong, you don't hear about it. What is uncommon is that Detroit's SRT is full time. They don't do any other duties like routine patrol. When they're not doing raids, they're training for raids. I've never liked that. It creates a sense of elitism that has no place behind the badge.

In most places SRT, SWAT or Tac Team members perform normal duties like any other officer unless the team is activated for a critical situation.

**Detwa** · May-17-10, 08:52 AM

Wow, this will not end well.

The victim's family said police told them the gun discharged because the girl's grandmother, Mertilla Jones, 46, grappled for the officer's weapon. Later Sunday, police spokesman John Roach said the officer and grandmother may have simply collided.
Mertilla Jones was released from custody Sunday afternoon, and it remained unclear if she will face charges. Police held her for more than 12 hours, during which time she also spent several hours hospitalized with what police said were medical issues.
At a press conference in front of the home Sunday evening, Mertilla Jones said there was no struggle: "I hit the floor when I heard them hit the window.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100517/...#ixzz0oC8B2INA

**R8RBOB** · May-17-10, 09:06 AM

Uh-oh.......

The aunt of the deceased child is engaged to the accused murderer that the police were seeking. This is going to be bizarre if the police discover that any of the family members were involved with the killing of the 17 year old.

**jcole** · May-17-10, 10:30 AM

Novine, all I can tell you is that my dad was a Detroit cop for 37 years and they made what you call 'SWAT entrances' long before there was a SWAT. He was on the force from 36-73 and if there was a need for it they surrounded the house in full riot gear and entered on command through doors, windows or holes in the wall. It wasn't for TV, because they weren't being filmed. They did what they had to do to apprehend whoever they were after.

Fidel · May-17-10, 10:31 AM

Worthy asks State Police to probe shooting death of girl, 7 http://bit.ly/9VH3R2
How long can it be till the Feds roll in?

"Current and former Detroit officers said today they wonder why such force was used, especially with children in the house. One former homicide detective said the usual tactic is to assign officers to watch the house and arrest a suspect in a less aggressive manner, such as when that person leaves the home."

**Meddle** · May-17-10, 10:39 AM

And no, I don't think it had anything to do with the film crew's presence. If you've ever watched the show, they focus on the mechanics of the investigation and interviews; the meat and potatoes as it were. There is very little 'action', although there is some. I'm sure the film crew was as surprised as anyone else at the outcome.

**Goose** · May-17-10, 10:47 AM

what is the reasoning and justification behind using an all out assault type entry at midnight to capture a suspect

its dark, for one, which can lead to confusion and chaos, its Detroit, with dangers lurking anywhere, just cause someone yells police in the middle of the night as they break down your door, the first reaction of the occupants may not be to hit the deck, one day someones gonna unload a shotgun unknowingly...

unless the suspect has hostages or is endangering the public safety by just being in the house, why not wait til morning and grab the guy when he leaves the house, at minimal, they could observe who's coming and going into the house, know there are kids, know what level he might be on, know who he's associating with in the house...

this was completly unnecessary....

**Meddle** · May-17-10, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

its dark, for one, which can lead to confusion and chaos, its Detroit, with dangers lurking anywhere, just cause someone yells police in the middle of the night as they break down your door, the first reaction of the occupants may not be to hit the deck, one day someones gonna unload a shotgun unknowingly....

What complicates this is that a few years back there was a series of home invasions by police imposters decked out in full raid gear with false IDs. I forget how many they did or how long it lasted, but it gives people cause to wonder just who really IS bursting in.

And this isn't the first incident of accidental gunfire injury either. I forget the details, but there have been a couple of high profile cases involving one officer being hit by another officer's fire.

**R8RBOB** · May-17-10, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

what is the reasoning and justification behind using an all out assault type entry at midnight to capture a suspect

its dark, for one, which can lead to confusion and chaos, its Detroit, with dangers lurking anywhere, just cause someone yells police in the middle of the night as they break down your door, the first reaction of the occupants may not be to hit the deck, one day someones gonna unload a shotgun unknowingly...

unless the suspect has hostages or is endangering the public safety by just being in the house, why not wait til morning and grab the guy when he leaves the house, at minimal, they could observe who's coming and going into the house, know there are kids, know what level he might be on, know who he's associating with in the house...

this was completly unnecessary....

The tragedy was that a young child was killed by accident but we must remember that the suspect killed a 17 year old in cold blood, in broad daylight. The police had to move because they were spotted on the block so people in the neighborhood knew the hook was staking out the house. If they waited till morning and the murderer gave the police the slip everyone would question why the police would wait to appenhend the criminal when they had his location.

There is no gray here. It is a black or white situation that resulted in the lost of a precious 7 year old.

**Novine** · May-17-10, 11:22 AM

Radley Balko covers these kinds of situations, mostly related to drug-war busts gone bad. He had a post on the shooting in Detroit.

http://www.theagitator.com/2010/05/1...n-police-raid/

The numbers that were cited have been getting a lot of air do to this drug raid gone bad on that made it to YouTube.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/1...aid-goes-viral

This case in Detroit sounds a lot like what happened in Lima, Ohio a couple years back.

http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/0...tarika-wilson/

**Islandman** · May-17-10, 11:59 AM

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...s-are-stilled/
http://reason.com/archives/2010/02/1...ngs-under-fire

The timeline in this incident is going to be very important. It sounds so far that this occurred right suring entry and not a minute plus later.

You are literally deaf and blind. It could easily cause you to reach for and object or person to steady yourself. This grappling could be misconstrued as just that. I find it far fetched that a 46 year old woman would have the capacity of "wrestling" with a law enforcement officer after being subjected to a flashbang. Sorry.

It is up to the person/s using such a device to be aware of these different reactions to this device, and to go in accordingly. Not everyone falls to the floor adter being hit with one of these. Everyone reacts differently.

I think the cops showed extremly bad judgment on this one, as well as poor weapon safety.

**Zacha341** · May-17-10, 08:59 PM

Condolences to both families for these two young lives lost: Aiyana Jones, and Jarean Blake.

Yes, it is murder all over... thru and thru. Outside of the police, the of the persons involved here know each other or are family members. This speaks to the density of people living in closer quarters these days. Starting with the ADULT man who ruthlessly murdered the 17 year old and then the death of the 7 year old.

I work in that community and their were heated discussions about this ALL DAY LONG. I hope that the suspected shooters initial actions are not forgotten.

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

The tragedy was that a young child was killed by accident but we must remember that the suspect killed a 17 year old in cold blood, in broad daylight. The police had to move because they were spotted on the block so people in the neighborhood knew the hook was staking out the house. If they waited till morning and the murderer gave the police the slip everyone would question why the police would wait to appenhend the criminal when they had his location.

There is no gray here. It is a black or white situation that resulted in the lost of a precious 7 year old.

**ggores** · May-18-10, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

what is the reasoning and justification behind using an all out assault type entry at midnight to capture a suspect

its dark, for one

Baffling. Just baffling. Could there have been a worse plan? Only in the absurd, I would think. But let's take a quick look:

Tactical advantage? We'll give that one a big fat zero. Of course, if you are trained to approach an unknown with your finger on the trigger, then I guess you could bump that advantage up to a meager three. You do not need your finger on that trigger until you have committed.

Risk coefficient? How about a ten {this is all simple on a scale of 1 to 10}.

Some explaining needs done, and there is surely a lot of scrambling going on within DPD.

These officers live's were put at highly unneccessary risk. But... they must be completely delusional in what they think they are for even entertaining the thought of having some damn cable channel camera crew tag along. Doesn't sound like an elite security force to me.

**Gannon** · May-17-10, 11:03 AM

Talking about this last night, a friend told me that these types of raids are incredibly common throughout the US, as often as every 20 minutes on average?! He went on to comment on the level of incarceration per capita and how much higher the US is than ANY other country.

I have no proof of either, but am curious to know if he was right.

First thing I found in my search was what must've been a spoof on YouTube of a SWAT team making multiple mistakes due their dispatch screwing up addresses. I certainly HOPE it was a spoof...but it again begs the question,

Are we doing GOOD or NOT, overall, with these forms of dark military-style raids? From the very first one I ever witnessed, going into the old Seville Hotel [[RIP that hellhole of Detroit's version of New Jack City), they have totally unsettled me.

We do not need unidentified police officers operating with impunity...I agree with Meddle about this unit's exclusivity being a problem. By unidentified, I specifically mean their badge numbers are not as prominently displayed at that huge white POLICE on their fronts and backs.

IF there is no accountability, their is a LIKELIHOOD of abuse in the future...that, unfortunately, stems from our base human nature.

We do not need anonymity in our officer ranks...

Sincerely,
John

**Gannon** · May-17-10, 11:04 AM

[[outside the plainclothes and undercover operations...of course!)

**REL** · May-17-10, 11:19 AM

Sweet jeez, people. I do not understand why we are all jumping to conclusions and taking tidbits from half-done news stories [[y'all know how accurate the news is) when the details aren't figured out yet. Wait until the investigation is done before getting all bent out of shape. Eventually answers will come. Just be patient and get the whole [[or most of the) story first before judging the situation.

Could have been the officer's fault. Or the grandmother's. Or the weapon's. Or the fugitive who hid in the upstairs flat. Or the department's policies. Or some circumstance we don't even know about yet. No one's going to know until all of the facts come out.

In the meantime, keep this girl in your prayers. No matter what happened with the adults around her, she didn't deserve her fate. It gives me shivers to picture a little girl in front of a Disney Princesses backdrop with blood running down her neck, life draining out of her body. Show a little respect and let the truth come out.

**English** · May-17-10, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by REL

In the meantime, keep this girl in your prayers. No matter what happened with the adults around her, she didn't deserve her fate. It gives me shivers to picture a little girl in front of a Disney Princesses backdrop with blood running down her neck, life draining out of her body. Show a little respect and let the truth come out.

Again, you've hit the nail squarely on the head before I could get back to this thread. I feel that this little girl's death is being used by people who have agendas to always defend the police or always tear them down. There's not a lot of common sense, just raw emotion in that debate... and it solves nothing.

I don't care if her family were saints or if they were all Jack the Ripper without souls. A seven year old is DEAD. Any time a child is killed, it is a tragedy. Any time we hear of it, the ONLY appropriate response is grief.

**usa1** · May-17-10, 11:44 AM

I originally heard that the little girl was sleeping on the front porch? Detroit has no respect for the law and that is the BIG problem. Why didn't this 46 y r old woman turn in the murderer in the first place - he was a wanted man. Most Detroiters appear to be anti police so how can they expect the city to become a safe place to live or work?? The people better wake up and put the blame on the right person.

**R8RBOB** · May-17-10, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by usa1

I originally heard that the little girl was sleeping on the front porch? Detroit has no respect for the law and that is the BIG problem. Why didn't this 46 y r old woman turn in the murderer in the first place - he was a wanted man. Most Detroiters appear to be anti police so how can they expect the city to become a safe place to live or work?? The people better wake up and put the blame on the right person.

Sleeping on the front porch! A seven year-old!! C'mon use your common sense.

As for your comment about the grandmother not turning in the murderer well what if the grandmother didn't know he murderer a 17 year old in cold blood. It is not like he went through the house and announced that he murdered a boy because of words.