Was there really a stripper party at the Manoogian Mansion?

**Detroit Stylin** · May-13-10, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

The belief that there was such a party, among a fairly massive segment of the public, is so overpowering that it makes very little difference whether the party actually ever happened or not.

The party is ingrained quite deeply in the imagination of the regional public; the fact of it having happened or not is rather a trifle at this point. [[That's not to diminish the tragedy of the violent death of the young woman, which I don't think has anything to do with the legendary party; it is just to point out that the public has reached its verdict which was that there was such a party, whether the party ever occurred in fact or did not.)

Ummmmm......there was Police ammo found all over that crime scene.....oh and "in" the crime scene....

**detroitbred** · May-13-10, 07:58 AM

A friend of mine has a son who was in the police academy. One of their guest speakers was the police chief of Southfield. He told them that he was invited to that party at the Manoogian. He cautioned them, saying that there are certain situations you just know to stay away from, and that was one of those situations. He did not attend. The police chief is a very articulate, professional black man, so no one can say it is a racial thing. I can't imagine what reason he would have for lying about being invited. I know, that is no proof that the party took place......I'm just sayin................

**DetroitSTAR** · May-13-10, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by detroitbred

A friend of mine has a son who was in the police academy. One of their guest speakers was the police chief of Southfield. He told them that he was invited to that party at the Manoogian. He cautioned them, saying that there are certain situations you just know to stay away from, and that was one of those situations. He did not attend. The police chief is a very articulate, professional black man, so no one can say it is a racial thing. I can't imagine what reason he would have for lying about being invited. I know, that is no proof that the party took place......I'm just sayin................

Why would someone in a position as respected at the chief of police, put himself in the position to be associated with an event that has the ability to permanently stain his reputation?

Years after major events occur people like to remember where they were or even say "I was there." I'm sure there are a hundred thousand people will tell you they were inside Comerica Park when Magglio hit the home run that sent the Tigers to the world series in 2006. I'm sure there are a hundred people who claim they were at the party or know someone who was, or who was invited.

Legends take on legs of their own, and people who want to be a part of history.

**Dan** · May-13-10, 09:14 AM

Can someone post a link to the thread about tunnels and secret rooms?

I missed that one.

**Novine** · May-13-10, 11:15 AM

"A friend of mine has a son who was in the police academy...."

That's the problem right there. You're repeating a story that's three times removed from the person who supposedly had a personal connection to the event. At that point, who knows what really happened?

**detroitbred** · May-13-10, 11:45 AM

Well, actually this person has been my friend for more than 30 years, and I have known her son all those 30 years. AND, I saw an interview on t.v.with that police chief at some point, a couple years ago now I think, where he talked about being invited. Not so much rumor.

**SWMAP** · May-13-10, 11:47 AM

Channel 4, October 10, 2005: The Chief on camera stating that he was invited but did not go. google it up.

**R8RBOB** · May-13-10, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbred

Well, actually this person has been my friend for more than 30 years, and I have known her son all those 30 years. AND, I saw an interview on t.v.with that police chief at some point, a couple years ago now I think, where he talked about being invited. Not so much rumor.

The party needs a timeline. An actually date that can connect Kwame Kilpatrick, Carlita Kilpatrick and Tamara Greene were in the same house. Then the dots can finally be connected and the real story can finally be told with verified facts. Currently, no timeline exist and without a timeline this mystery will never be solved because everyone is going to tell a different tale.

We have hearsay instead of facts.
The Free Press had a story about Yatooma that was posted on 5/2.
http://www.freep.com/article/2010050...ves-questioned

There is a graphic on the site called "What They Say Happened" If you hadn't the chance to check it out, I suggest to take a look at it.

**Carey** · May-13-10, 12:41 PM

Novine make a great point about hearsay. Not one person in this discussion has cited any first-hand evidence that a party took place. Read the reasons posters give for why they think there was a party. It's all rumor, hearsay, suppositions, wishes and fantasy.

**Zacha341** · May-13-10, 03:04 PM

Yeah, I've thought about that -- so many women in that lifestyle and world are missing or found dead and it's forgotten, but as fate has it, withstanding the circumstances and big wigs involved she is not going to be just yet. But as others have mentioned what about the neighbors? Surely they heard about it and while their silence may have been obliged before what's stopping them from talking now?

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

...Tamara Greene was no angel.

**royce** · May-13-10, 11:39 PM

Those of you who are looking for folks to come forward don't seem to understand that there is no incentive for anyone who was at the party to come forward. If I was Kilpatrick's good friend, a family member, or a EPU police officer, why would I come out publicly and say something about the party that would damage his reputation as mayor or implicate him in a cover-up of an assault committed by his wife. If Tamara Greene or any dancer for that matter was injured at the party but not seriously, then why would anyone at the party be compelled to divulge that information to the authorities. Some of the EPU members might be compelled because they're cops, but cops like to keep their jobs just like the rest of us.

Since no one has come forward it would be difficult for the media or Yatooma to even question anyone. Who would you seek to subpoena? Clearly Kwame Kilpatrick would be the first person to subpoena, but we know he is capable of lying under oath so his testimony would be useless. Clearly Carlita Kilpatrick is the person to subpoena and question, but again, why would she be compelled to tell the truth and incriminate herself regarding her actions and the actions of her husband.

Someone mentioned about disgruntled workers starting this Manoogian party rumor. Well, how many disgruntled workers would there have been in 2002 or 2003? Kilpatrick had just been sworn in on January 1, 2002. Given Kilpatrick's penchant for nepotism, who could have possibly been unhappy with him in 2002 or 2003?

Many people in this world believe that there's some truth to legends and folk tales, where facts are sketchy and witnesses are long since dead. Yet, it's not conceiveable in the minds of some that this party could have existed. Again, for me the overriding question that has to be asked is, "Why would someone fabricate such a story?" And the secondary question is, "Who would benefit from creating such an elaborate story?" What do you doubters have to say about this?"

**dookie joe** · May-14-10, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Sorry but unless someone comes forth with PROOF that a party occur, it is all hearsay.

Well, of course, I'm merely making an educated guess, based on logic.

Logic tells me if there was nothing to hide, then they wouldn't be trying to hide it. And yet with every step of this case, people have been trying to hide the truth.

I'm a simple man with simple questions. It's a fact they don't want information released. Simple question: Why?

As I said prior and I will say it again. Unless someone other than a cop or city worker or EMT comes out and say as fact that a party occurred on unknown date in late 2002 then the party is just a myth. We already know the cops aren't going to say anymore what they have been saying for years so it is time for a eyeball witness to validate that a party happened, that Carlita Kilpatrick beat the hell out a stripper and that stripper needed medical care afterwards and that the mayor orchestrated a cover-up that would involved the AG and the State Police.

So somebody just made the whole thing up out of wholecloth, and Tamara Greene's name got pulled out of a hat. That's also a possibility, I suppose.

But that brings us back to my question: If the whole thing is just a myth someone yanked out of his bunghole, why are people trying to keep the truth from coming to light.

Seems to me if I had nothing to hide, I'd welcome people's inquiries.

**dookie joe** · May-14-10, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSTAR

Why would someone in a position as respected at the chief of police, put himself in the position to be associated with an event that has the ability to permanently stain his reputation?

Golly, I don't know. Why would the mayor of Washington D.C. try to buy crack cocaine?

I'm no political scientist, but I suspect that might fall under the category of being "associated with an event that has the ability to permanently stain his reputation."

**R8RBOB** · May-14-10, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by royce

Those of you who are looking for folks to come forward don't seem to understand that there is no incentive for anyone who was at the party to come forward. If I was Kilpatrick's good friend, a family member, or a EPU police officer, why would I come out publicly and say something about the party that would damage his reputation as mayor or implicate him in a cover-up of an assault committed by his wife. If Tamara Greene or any dancer for that matter was injured at the party but not seriously, then why would anyone at the party be compelled to divulge that information to the authorities. Some of the EPU members might be compelled because they're cops, but cops like to keep their jobs just like the rest of us.

Since no one has come forward it would be difficult for the media or Yatooma to even question anyone. Who would you seek to subpoena? Clearly Kwame Kilpatrick would be the first person to subpoena, but we know he is capable of lying under oath so his testimony would be useless. Clearly Carlita Kilpatrick is the person to subpoena and question, but again, why would she be compelled to tell the truth and incriminate herself regarding her actions and the actions of her husband.

Someone mentioned about disgruntled workers starting this Manoogian party rumor. Well, how many disgruntled workers would there have been in 2002 or 2003? Kilpatrick had just been sworn in on January 1, 2002. Given Kilpatrick's penchant for nepotism, who could have possibly been unhappy with him in 2002 or 2003?

Many people in this world believe that there's some truth to legends and folk tales, where facts are sketchy and witnesses are long since dead. Yet, it's not conceiveable in the minds of some that this party could have existed. Again, for me the overriding question that has to be asked is, "Why would someone fabricate such a story?" And the secondary question is, "Who would benefit from creating such an elaborate story?" What do you doubters have to say about this?"

I'm a doubter and I have a question but first, I was not living in Detroit during that period in time when the alleged party occurred and when Ms. Greene was murdered.

So the question is: what came first? The news story about Tamara Greene's murder or Kilpatrick public acknowledgement that no party happened.

**Carey** · May-14-10, 08:13 AM

R8RBOB: The answer to your question is "neither." What happened first, publicly, was Kilpatrick and Beatty fired Deputy Chief Gary Brown, in May 2003. A couple days later, Brown held a press conference and said the mayor had canned him because his internal affairs unit had been looking into reports of misconduct among members of the mayoral security detail, including their participation in a wild party at the Manoogian. That was the first time word of the "party" surfaced -- IN PUBLIC.

For months before that, rumors had circulated among cops, the media, political operatives and city hall workers that Mrs. Kilpatrick had beat up a stripper at a crazy Manoogian party. Media outlets investigated the hell out of the rumor, but found nothing to broadcast or print. As far as I know, nothing was made public during those long months of heavy rumors until Gary Brown spoke out. Then all hell broke loose...and continues.

**R8RBOB** · May-14-10, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Carey

R8RBOB: The answer to your question is "neither." What happened first, publicly, was Kilpatrick and Beatty fired Deputy Chief Gary Brown, in May 2003. A couple days later, Brown held a press conference and said the mayor had canned him because his internal affairs unit had been looking into reports of misconduct among members of the mayoral security detail, including their participation in a wild party at the Manoogian. That was ther first time word of the "party" surfaced -- IN PUBLIC.

For months before that, rumors had circulated among cops, the media, political operatives and city hall workers that Mrs. Kilpatrick had beat up a stripper at a crazy Manoogian party. Media outlets investigated the hell out of the rumor, but found nothing to broadcast or print. As far as I know, nothing was made public during those long months of heavy rumors until Gary Brown spoke out. Then all hell broke loose...and continues.

Carey, thanks for the answer.

So Tamara Greene was murdered on April 30, 2003, Gary Brown was fired on May 9, 2003 and Kilpatrick acknowledged no party occured some time after that.

I wonder why no one from Greene's inner circle have acknowledge that Greene was or was not a striper who participated at that alleged party. If she had been beaten down by the First Lady she would have told someone, anymore. No one has stepped up for Ms. Greene. Because there is money involved no one is going say anymore than they have too and you have to wonder why.

**One Shot** · May-14-10, 09:51 AM

A: This rumor didn't start out of thin air
B: I've heard tidbits from many differnt people who have all described how many different people are dirty.
C: There wasn't only ONE party...

**detroitbred** · May-14-10, 09:53 AM

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck. That party is a duck

**slick** · May-14-10, 10:32 AM

the mayor orchestrated a cover-up that would involved the AG and the State Police

I believe there was a party and the reason Cox covered up the State Police end because at the time Col Sturtevant was head of the MSP and he was probably in attendance. Lots of Wayne County cronies at the Mansion that night.

**detroitbred** · May-14-10, 01:06 PM

Right you are Slick, Right You Are!! Good ole boy network covering each others ass.

**ct_alum** · May-14-10, 04:37 PM

Let's look at this from another perspective - Why did DPD shut down the Greene murder investigation? There is ample evidence that they did, such as missing files, people being demoted/transferred for investigating the case, putting it in the "Cold Case" file, and etc.

Those idiots at the Freep miss the point - their recent articles suggest that since Yatooma can't prove there was party, then he doesn't have a case. They forget that Yatooma's suit is about obstructing the investigation and as I mentioned, there is ample evidence that proves his case.

So, why did DPD obstruct the investigation into a "Stripper who was involved in a dope beef"? [[That is the quote from the hack ex-DPD Dectective that the Detroit News likes to trot out from time to time whenever they feel like smearing Greene). Start there and work backwards..........

**Russix** · May-14-10, 10:19 PM

It started as a rumor which our trusting public officials quietly dismissed. When it became apparent that our public officials were no longer very trustable and actually quite corrupt and criminal, then the likelihood of this rumor being false became extremely questionable, especially after being dismissed by someone who had lied under oath.

**One Shot** · May-15-10, 09:34 AM

How about a new poll: Was Cox at the party?

A: Definately

**Gannon** · May-15-10, 11:38 AM

The highest-ranking Internal Affairs officer who DIDN'T get fired at that time is the older brother of one of my best high school friends. He is the one who his superior called 'dumb as a rock' for daring to investigate Kwhyme and his gang of thugs.

There has never BEEN any question of 'if' there was a party that Carlita crashed with her son's Louisville Slugger.

As I said, between the trashing of a city car by one of his main grunts...trying to drive on some train tracks like Hollywood when he was stoned drunk...and the party, and some other shenanigans...this was COMMON KNOWLEDGE amongst those lifers in the government, and they ALL joked about it for months.

Until Tamara Greene was pumped full of police-issued bullets from a police-sized handgun. The latter is easy to procure, heck my Glock 9mm was sourced from when the force moved to .40cal instead...but the former is decidedly NOT easily found on the street. I wish I knew the specifics, but I suspect they are armor-piercing...even though from all reports, Tamara Greene never word body armor.

So...again...this is moot. Churning up old news, although we are making quick a study of who is STILL on Kwhyme and McNamara's payroll...start with that jerk who defends them to the News!

Cheers

**Novine** · May-15-10, 01:10 PM

"Let's look at this from another perspective - Why did DPD shut down the Greene murder investigation?"

The problem with this approach is that it assumes there's a connection between Tamara Greene getting killed and the party at the mansion. She may have been killed by someone with a connection to DPD and the reason why may have nothing to do with the party. Everyone wants to connect it to the party because it provides an easy motive. But maybe there's no connection at all.